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May 25, 2013, 3:45am

Cardboard Warriors forum :: PERMES Cardboard Models :: mesper's PROJECTS :: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line

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Topic: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line (Read 1,414 times)

enpeze
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Suggestion for fantasy-historical line
« Thread Started on Apr 17, 2012, 7:05am »

Some new fantasy rpg worlds (eg. the Pathfinder Golarion) portray cultures which blend historical aspects with fantasy twist. How about drawing miniature sets for such settings? I guess this would be incredible useful for the many players of Pathfinder or WFRP.

For this I think its important that the minis are portraying a historical culture like arabs, chinese, renaissance style or vikings but NOT let them be 100% historical accurate. Instead the grafical style could be a mix of history and fantasy.

To see what I mean with this it would be good to familiarize with Paizos popular Pathfinder line.

In addition of course I would love to see a polish lancer. These guys with their feathers have so much style.

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Rhannon
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Re: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line
« Reply #1 on Apr 17, 2012, 8:24am »

Hi enpeze,

for "polish lancer" you mean a napoleonic polish lancer , a WW2 lancer or ...

[image]

"Husaria"

Polish "winged" lancers ( or, more correctly, Polish Winged Hussars ) ?

« Last Edit: Apr 17, 2012, 11:14am by Rhannon »

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mesper
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Re: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line
« Reply #2 on Apr 17, 2012, 6:31pm »

Polish Winged Hussars - Husaria

Err... I was so excited seeing "historical line" within thread's tittle, but then I saw "fantasy" part...

But anyway... Well, if lancers with with feathers then definitelly Winged Hussars (Husaria vide Rhannon's reply) - Polish elite-of-elite nobleman heavy cavalry.

[image]

In fact they were not only stylish but also deadly efficient.
In XVI-XVII C. Husaria was widely regarded as the most powerful cavalry formation in the world. Polish Hussars were undefeated and decisive in battle for nearly 200 years.

Hussars lance - kopia
Hussar main weapon was extra-long (up tp 6,5m! so longer then foot infantry pique's) - and made from 2 especially drilled(!) halves glued and binded together -- therefore lance was hollowed in order to lower the weight. Lances were decorated with very long 3,5m and colorful baners, so they looked impressive when slattering on wing or during charge.

Wings
There was different types of "wings" during the centuries - single and paired, straight and curved. Usualy made with eagle, heron or aigrette feathers but also swan or goose. Wings were usualy fixed to the Husarz back armor-plate special hinges but in sometimes to the saddle.
Wings when charging made a lot of specific, clattering noise, so non-trained enemy horses started panicking and running away. Some historicians suppose that wing were also kinda protections from Tatar's and other eastern nomads lasso's.

Although according to some historicians the wings were used only accidentaly in battle and mostly for parades and other special occasions only.

Wild exotic animal furs
Hussars puts animal furs on top of their armour. Commanders and Officers wore tiger when regular hussars leopard / panther furs. Retainers (Pocztowi) wore wolf or lynx furs.

All together - wings, furs and long baners resulted in uncommon, threatening yet impressive and awesome at the same time look which was kinda renaissance form of psychological warfare.

Hussars lances
Polish hussars lance (kopia) was up to 6,5 tall and... hollowed (drilled), with two halves glued together and painted, and even often richly gilded.

[image]

Main purpose of heavily armoured Husaria cavalry was destroying enemy best units and break through enemy lines with concentrate and crushing powerfull charge.
When charging, just before strucking at enemy line -- within last dozens of meters second and third line of riders in full gallopade(!) get/ride in empty spaces between first line riders and then they all tighten the line so their knees touched!

And then this heavy armored stell-roller, "ruffled" with hundreds of long spears with fluttering colorfull baners, in full gallopade strucks enemy lines. If needed Hussars repeat the charge several times until the enemy formation broke (they had supply wagons with spare lances).

The hussars fought with a long lance, a koncerz (stabbing sword), a szabla (sabre), 1 or 2 pistols, and often with a carbine or arquebus, known in Polish as a bandolet.
In addition, there was no West European stigma attached to the use of a bow and arrows, but the more English-like view was held (the English continued to hold archers in high esteem.) It
is possible that the projectile weapons were used to weaken the enemy's infantry squares and to create a domino effect. The lighter Turkish-style saddle allowed for more armour to be used by both the horses and the warriors. Moreover, the horses were bred to run very fast with a heavy load and to recover quickly. These were created by mixing old Polish horses blood with eastern horses, usually from Tatar tribes. As a result, horse could walk hundreds of kilometres loaded with over 100 kilograms (warrior plus armor and weaponry) and instantly charge. Also, hussar horses were very quick and manoeuvrable.
This made hussars able to fight with any cavalry or infantry force from western heavy kissaiers to quick tatars.
[Wikipedia]

In many cases Polish army commanders tried to secret / "hide" Husaria presence in their army - just to surprise / flabbergast the enemy and put Husaria into attack in best tactical battle momentum. In such situations Hussars stand at back of the whole army - lying on the horse-backs and with lances horizontally - to hide from enemy eyes. When both armies engaged most of their formations - Husaria outmanewred enemy flanks and... strikes from side with goal to charge through whole front-line or destroy enemy commander unit.

In some situations Polish commanders... just simulated presence of Husaria in their army ranks - retinues riding trace-horses with long fake spears (made from looped branches and with big, specific Husaria-like banners) started to remowing at the back of Polish army-lines, trying to convince enemy that hidden unit is preparing for attack position or some reinforcements just arrived. In many cases it was enough for starting the fear and panic within enemy ranks.

More reading and photos:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husaria

Polish XVI-XVII medium and light cavalry

[image]

From left:
-Dragon
-Pancerny with spear
-Pancerny with nadziak
-Lisowczyk

Pancerni
Towarzysz pancerny ("armoured companion") was a medium-cavalryman in 16th-18th century Poland, named for his chainmail armor ("pancerz"). These units were the second-most-important cavalry arm in the Polish Army, after the Hussars.
Most pancerni were recruited from the middle or lower classes of szlachta (nobility). They were organized into companies (singular: chor¹giew pancerna) of 60-200 horsemen.
[Wikipedia]

Lisowczycy
Lisowczycy also known as Straceñcy ('lost men' or 'forlorn hope') or company of elears - the name of an early 17th century irregular unit of Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth light cavalry. The Lisowczycy took part in many battles across Europe and the historical accounts of the period characterized them as extremely agile, warlike, and bloodthirsty.
[Wikipedia]

Napoleonic Wars Era Lancers
In late XVIII C. Polish Hussars duties and traditions were passed on to the Uhlans (u³ani or ulani in case if [³] is not properly displayed on your screen), known also as Lancers (Lansjerzy) or... picadores -- as during Iberic Paninsular War Spanish used to call Lancers "los infernos picadores Polacos".

[image]

From left:
-Napoleonic Army Polish Uhlan Regiment standardbearer
-Warsaw Duchy Uhlans regiment trumpeter
-Napoleon's Old Guard Polish Chasseur (Szwolezer Gwardii)
-Vistula Legion (Legia Nadwiœlañska) 9-th regiment Lancer

---

Anyway... I'm warning - one day I will publish some historical 30mm scale sets. Dunno for now which period - perhaps it would be wiser to start with something "flexible" and near-fantasy - like Pirates, Crusader Knights or Vikings...

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Kimerlin
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Re: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line
« Reply #3 on Apr 17, 2012, 6:49pm »

winged hussars were stylish, but it is mortal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlhpi-WllkQ

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mesper
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Re: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line
« Reply #4 on Apr 17, 2012, 8:54pm »

Apr 17, 2012, 6:49pm, Kimerlin wrote:

winged hussars were stylish, but it is mortal

Nice try, but... it simply shows that Hussars did their job perfectly and obviously only cheap commander would waste elite heavy cavalry attacking fortified camp when he can use artillery and infantry instead!

Here is a little bit extended version of this movie plus some interesting parts with Husaria from other pictures as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeaQzfE2kHw&feature=related

BTW: there are also some historical facts given at the bottom of the screen worth reading (written in Polish but numbers, dates and battles should be easily recognizable).

Regarding quoted movies - in general that's a pity that those are rather budget ones (especially when compared to blockbusters, so big portion of feeling of charge impetus is usually lost - but still gives some impression about Husaria) but there will be an international movie with Hollywood-budget premiere soon - about Vienna relief in 1683 where Husaria massive charge once again proved to be decisive - so it might be worth both waiting and watching.

PS. Battle Of Vienna 1683 - some more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna)

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Kimerlin
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Re: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line
« Reply #5 on Apr 17, 2012, 11:19pm »

Turks did not hit just lazy. so that the victory over the Ottomans are not so great

Turks even their elite troops used as mere cannon fodder.

in the Russian-Lithuanian War, Moscow manorial cavalry was no weaker than hussars.
Swedish Reiters were so completely on its head more hussars.
I am confident that the popularity of winged hussars all the same merit of their appearance.

Legion of the Vistula Uhlans were without a doubt one of the best cavalry units in Napoleon's army. even their destruction was very nice and decent.

« Last Edit: Apr 17, 2012, 11:22pm by Kimerlin »

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enpeze
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Re: Suggestion for fantasy-historical line
« Reply #6 on Apr 18, 2012, 4:25am »

Oops.

So much info and postings about those feathery guys. If I knew this in advance...

I also think that most of the colportated efficiency is due to the excellent style of the lancers. (as it is always) Nonetheless I am sure the people of my home city Vienna (my ancestors) were extremely grateful to the Poles and their lancers for their help at the "Battle at Kahlenberg" against the nasty turks in the year 1529.

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