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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2012 0:17:19 GMT -9
At some point, I would like to be able to build medieval baggage trains to go with my armies. OK, here you go... medieval/fantasy baggage carts loaded with bags (army supplies?) geared with donkey (mule): Well, one cart doesn't make army train. In fact it's even not a decent, big wagon - just a simple mid-size cart with one pair of wheels... however you have to start with something, right? But if you examine preview you will find carts with different load - with bags/sacks and with hay on it. But there is also version with chests, wooden joists/construction bars and weaponry (spears and shields) and of course there is also empty one so life would be easier for modders - they could be able to "load" cart according needs;) Oh... and please pay a little attention to what's happening in the background... Yes! You can see there... knight struggling with donkey... Youp! apparently knights life wasn't only fighting VS famous, noble opponents... so sometimes they have to replace sword with staff. If you find it somehow usefull (ie figurine, not staff! and/or funny I could consider submitting this "scenery-mini" as well (or perhaps I should also replace/add some peasant instead of knight). I could also put horse (horset) to cart, but during medieval horses were mostly to expensive, fragile and to demanding (in terms of feeding) to put them to heavy loaded carts and wagons. So there should be also version with ox - or actually even better with at least pair of oxes... There is also additional figurine... night / shadow version - with a little pale / faded colors. Err... who knows, maybe it will turn on somehow useful? PDF download:Last but not least - link to PDF file (its 300dpi 1/2 A4 format): www.kartonowefigurki.pl/cwf/kfd-free05-miniset.pdfPlease feel free to download it and put it to the test -- I'd appreciate if you let me know if you like it? Or perhaps you will have some remarks or suggestions? I got quite substantial amount of various "components" for this kind of "scenery" minis -- big wagons (4 wheels / 2 axles), open and covered. Wagons / carts are in 2D and 3D version. There are also various goods/baggage with various colors - something for modders:) so perhaps its worth to think about combining all this stuff into some "transportation" set? It could be used for both historical and medieval sets and of course for various dioramas. Enjoy!Mesper
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Post by kiladecus on Sept 15, 2012 4:38:09 GMT -9
Before anyone else suggests it, add a Clydesdale, and some kegs, and have the beer wagon! ;D
I think these are GREAT! I would LOVE to see your other wagons see the light of day. Now that we've moved, 3D models are not as high of a priority for me due to limited space. I can store a LOT of these carts and wagons in my sheet protectos and baseball card sheets in notebook.
I don't care what you draw, it is ALWAYS welcomed, and you are among my FAVORITE artists! Fantastic work.
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Post by pblade on Sept 16, 2012 1:56:02 GMT -9
A couple of great donkey carts! Definitely like the idea of the bigger carts & wagons, too. 'An army marches on its stomach' after all. Adding these to the pack & draft horses Xtea created will go great lengths to filling that need.
And count me among those in favor of a large variety of loads in the wagons. You'd have your own supplies of food, water, replacement weapons, clothing, and other miscellaneous equipment of course. If you're successful storming the castle, then you'd have the chests of booty to add in. ;D
I think simple 3D wagons with loads you could swap in and out would be a good way to go. What I'm envisioning is something with a bottom designed to "drop into" the wagon, filling it entirely, with the top being what sticks up above the sides of the wagon/cart. That should let you provide a larger variety of loads without getting bogged down in making too many tiny pieces.
Of course, I've got lots of chests, barrels, & trunks thanks to picking up Dave Graffam's models, so I might not be typical.
- Pb
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Post by Reivaj on Sept 16, 2012 6:53:40 GMT -9
Great work Thanks Mesper !
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 16, 2012 18:55:38 GMT -9
while your thinking about different loads for the wagons, how about corpses. Nothing says middle ages llke a cartload of corpses
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 17, 2012 11:31:46 GMT -9
Those are all great ideas. I like the swap out the load idea ... a lot. Corpse cart and Beer wagon are also great ideas. On the more mundane side, a hay cart. On the more elaborate side, a 'tribute' wagon or a wagon of military supplies (though I'm not real sure what that would look like). It was said that the English longbowmen could let off volleys at a rate of 2 or 3 per minute. I realize that's not a sustained rate. That's a lot of arrows. They had to ship them somehow. In support of an army, there had to be some sort of travelling smithie, I would think. You can't miss a battle because you popped a rivet.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2012 20:48:39 GMT -9
Those are all great ideas. Absolutely agreed!Thanks for all interesting and inspiring suggestions and ideas! =>>>Actually thanks to your feedback I'm seriously considering publishing this/such set. (plus I'd also add "caravan" of mules and/or horses with possibility to load them with various packages) Although there is, just to be honest, one small thing which is bothering me...
I'm referring to wagon with human corpses. Not that it's a problem with it - it could be indeed very realistic and.. hmm... immersing? After all, as it was mentioned, it was quite common view during medieval (not only during wars but many epidemic vide "black death" etc).
Still the main question for me is to which extent of realism we would like paper minis should be...?
Then there is another one, perhaps silly (funny in fact) and even more confusing at the same time issue -- I mean... woman's tits&nipples are not allowed... still wagon full with DEAD BODIES, presumably covered with blood and guts(!)corpses sounds OK?!?
It's like what, wait... Hollywood film industry or what? You know.. that infamous silly Hollywood movie "L" shape blanket which covers women up to her neck and at the same time leaves man's torso/chest uncovered... meanwhile you might be watching allowed for almost all audience horror/grind movies with hectoliters of blood... just weird.
OK I know that there is somewhere in forums whole quite long thread with such discussion, so it's not my intention to start it all over again... simply wondering so can't resist...BACK to Medieval trainsI'm considering 2 versions. Not sure yet which one would be best solution. It could be 1 huge (and I'd like to avoid too big sets with more than ca. dozen pages) or 2 separate reasonably sized/dedicated set: -one with "Ready/Fast-to-Make" with 2D/flat only figurines but WITH additional pages with parts for modding (I'm thinking on it as kinda MOD-KIT or MOD-IT-YOURSELF pages). So it will be... solution for players in hurry (I'm trying to avoid word "lazy" and frankly speaking I'm counting myself to this group!!! -secondly 2,5/3D version. As a whole it would count as 2,5D set because carts, carriages could be full 3D while peoples and animals (horses etc) stricte 2D. In this case I'll need to prepare dedicated PROPS vide chests, barrels, bags etc... so they will easily MATCH/FIT carts, carriages, wagons. Of course players could use their own or any other publisher props but no guarantee that they will look stylistically coherent and/or will fit into carts etc... well, while there is no problem with 3D carts, wagons... making chests and barrels doesn't sound especially funny...
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 18, 2012 21:07:04 GMT -9
The mundane is rarely fun. Going back to hollywood, the beer wagon sometimes is just one gigantic barrel ...
And yes, these ethics questions can give a guy a headache trying to keep straight which vile atrocities are okay, and which are not ...
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Post by kiladecus on Sept 26, 2012 2:30:27 GMT -9
First off, only a FOOL would start a discussion about NUDITY vs. BLOOD and GORE! Secondly, here's how I would handle it. You have the 2D version already. Simply make a piece that is long enough to be a fold-over (top and bottom) with tabs along the sides... I will try to explain. You have the piece with boards on it. This would be the inside/top of the cart. You can have tabs on each side that would fold down and glue to the "inside" walls of the cart. Instruct the "builder" to make TWO versions of the 2D model. Then, glue the flat piece BETWEEN THEM. You can also make an "axel" to glue to the insides of the wheels to offer it strenght/support. When done, you will have a 3D-ish cart with two beasts pulling it. You can fill it with crates, boxes, dead bodies or nipples. I think it is a simple "fix" that will appeal to anyone wanting a 3D cart. As for the others, why not make TWO OR THREE versions (all empty), one being pulled by a horse, one by a bull, one by a donkey (and you can do one with a dragon, and so forth). The carts are ALL empty. You have a sheet of "boxes" and hay, and other items that the "builder" can insert into the cart when they build it. To make it even SIMPLER (or more simple) on yourself, just make a bunch of animals with the harness on them, and the builder can decide which animal (or combination of animals) to attach to them. A 2 and 4 wheeled version of the carts would be fairly simple, and the builder can attach the tongue to the beasts, or have it resting on the ground. (The four-wheeled version would just use TWO of the pieces listed above to give it a longer "interior." This could be just a simple square box that is placed between the sides. By having the 4-wheeled version use TWO of these "decks" you make it even easier on yourself, because you don't have to design separate pieces. This set would appeal to people for Fantasy, Western, and even WWI or II sets as a backdrop or plot point. I know I wish I had one when raiding dungeons! Just my thoughts of how I would do this if I had YOUR talent!
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 26, 2012 3:12:26 GMT -9
Ok, I'm a bit foolish. There are levels of gore just like there are levels of sexuality. My idea for the corpse cart would be wicker sides with a few feet sticking out the back. It might still be a bit disturbing, and it probably should be, but it wouldn't be "graphic." I don't think anyone knows if it is "healthier" to gloss over the fictive violence inherent in wargames or if more explicit gore increases empathy or only adds to desensitzation so I think artists should use their own judgement and draw what they like. I would think that commercial producers who produce a wider range of images have a wider range of potential customers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 14:15:46 GMT -9
@ kiladecusWell, you know me - I'm not that big 3D enthusiast! (although love to see results, well done models/dioramas etc... but things get worse when it gets to design... Still couple of interesting ideas - so thanks! @ cowboylelendMy idea for the corpse cart would be wicker sides with a few feet sticking out the back. OK, got the idea now! Actually I should blame my imagination which pictured kinda more horror-like view with all the scary details... BTW: like the wicker-sides cart idea - in fact already did some trial graphics and it looks superb - THANKS!
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