Orc Designs « Thread Started on Nov 4, 2011, 7:02am »
I am creating my design sketches for an orc army. I need some help in deciding which style to use. Below are some concept sketches of three different styles that am working with. Have a look and cast a vote. Your input is important.
Option 1: A GW style. GW has in many ways created the modern orc. It is a very popular and easily recognizable style. Lots of players looking to supplement or replace WH armies would probably like this style.
Option 2: Paul Bonner style. Paul Bonner is an incredible artist who has a unique way of doing orcs. They are less common, and less recognizable as orcs, but I think it looks really cool. I have also considered using this style more for Ogres, or other large creatures rather than for orcs themselves.
Option 3: Somewhere between the GW look and a more humanoid look. In the past I think most of the orcs I have drawn have been somewhere in this area. Definitely GW influenced, but more humanoid in appearance. I think this style would be somewhat easier to create, but still have some recognizable characteristics. Here are examples using my past drawings.
Option 4: Some other style. Pig orcs, perhaps some old school look. Post an image of an example of what you would like to see.
"There is wisdom in turning as often as possible from the familiar to the unfamiliar: it keeps the mind nimble, it kills prejudice, and it fosters humour." George Santayana, philosopher (1863-1952)
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Re: Orc Designs « Reply #2 on Nov 4, 2011, 7:29am »
I just hate "Pig orcs", if drawn in a serious style and not in a comic one (yes, while well done, i don't like Jim's orcs... at least as "orcs"). So i am more for humanoid orcs.... or also something more close to Urukhai in the LoTR trilogy.
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #3 on Nov 4, 2011, 10:56am »
I voted GW, but I take it back.
Of the options presented I like 3 the best, the Human/GW hybrid.
It seems the most compatible with everything, and it seems the area your most comfortable with. They look equally at home on the Dungeon map and in Warhammer Army.
I also liked everything about the Paul Boner style EXCEPT those chins/beards. I just don't see hair on an orc unless it's the piggy type, or a hair squig.
Anywho, thats my two cents. The human/GW hybrid, or hairless Paul Boner Orcs. Either way, I'm sure they'll turn out great.
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #4 on Nov 4, 2011, 5:34pm »
I voted for GW style (option 1)
Option 2 would indeed look better for Ogres, etc
Option 3 just look too human. We already have humans & elves for human looking troops, which is why we need Orcs that look very different (to humans). The samples you showed for Option3 dont look like orcs at all. Are they ugly humans or cat-people? I can't tell. (its like watching old-school Klingons! humans with face-paint. just doesnt look right)
If I can't tell what they are at a glance, they aren't orcs
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Re: Orc Designs « Reply #5 on Nov 4, 2011, 5:59pm »
I voted for option 3, but I'd really like to see this lean more to the Option 1 look. First image looks more like a half-orc. The second should have at least some tusk. Third is close to the mark, but I picture orcs with longer arms than a similar height human and a stance more ape-like than human.
Texturing will make a huge difference to the appearance, too.
kiladecus Monk Designated Moral Compass member is offline
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Re: Orc Designs « Reply #7 on Nov 4, 2011, 7:25pm »
Ok, I sometimes come off as an idiot (...sometimes?) ...anyway, I want to say something...
First off, Labrat, I take for granted the amount of talent we have here at this site.
There are amazing artists here, and each has their own style... for example, if you see a Darkmook or Okumarts (just to give an example) drawing you can pick them out in a line-up pretty easily. Everyone seems to have their own style.
For you to draw these in SO many different styles, is really QUITE amazing.. no kidding!
I really think that people need to realize what we are experiencing here!
SECONDLY, I have NEVER had GW say, "Hey, Dave... what do you want our next release to look like?" Sure, you are asking us for our input, but more than that, you CARE about our opinion.!
That is freakin' awesome!
NOW that I have shared my thoughts on that, let me give you my opinion... since you asked.
I think that the most popular style will be the GW version, however I feel you have WAY too much talent to copy a GW-style figure! You are an amazing artist, and I think that you need to "re-define" what an Orc is.
I posted a sketch on my board a while back of what I would like to see Orcs become. (Please keep in mind I did this quick sketch, and I don't have NEAR the talent that others have here). If you go to my board and look under the thread "Quick Survey" you will see some sketches. The one on the bottom right is the one I have in mind.
My idea for Orcs is to basically take Stoick the Vast ("How To Tame Your Dragon") and Shreck and throw them in the blender.
I like the idea of viking Orcs with Scottish accents.
So, yes, I am the only one to vote for the fourth option... But then again, you know what happens when a salmon swims upstream... he gets eaten by a bear... or gets to spawn... either way, I think that would be cool.
So, back to that "idiot" line at the beginning of this thread... you decide.
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #8 on Nov 4, 2011, 10:53pm »
Yes, I agree. I wouldn't "copy" any other system.
Make sure they are your own style/version.
However, I would make sure they based from a standard that is easily recognisable and still looks good shrunk down on small papermini cutouts. Some things look great on screen, but shrunk down and using as minis can often look dull or unrecognisable.
So long as looking at a crowded table of minis, you can quickly point to one figure and say thats an orc, and not maybe human or something else, then you're fine.
Thats why I also believe using Option 1 as the base is the only real option here. Human looking orcs will not translate well to paper minis.
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #10 on Nov 5, 2011, 10:44am »
I greatly appreciate everyone's input so far. I'll keep the poll open a while longer so everyone has a chance to pitch in. It's been good. I'm starting to develop a much better idea of how I want to approach the designs.
Thanks for your kind words Kiladecus. We had that sort of discussion a while ago when we first purchased Onemonk. Jim gave us the advice to not be the sort of company that just does their thing while the people wait for what comes from on high. But at the same time, you don't want other people running your company.
So rather than being the sort of company that thinks people should eat our terds and love it, we decided to make sure to gather opinions when there are questions about things, and then use that to make decisions, and move forward unapologetically.
Keep the input and ideas coming. This is all good stuff.
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Re: Orc Designs « Reply #11 on Nov 5, 2011, 2:42pm »
I voted for "Other."
Tolkien originally imagined orcs to look like the Mongol invaders of the Middle Ages. They were relatively short, bandy-legged and wirey. They were of a dark, olive complection, not chartreuse or parrot green.
The old school orcs I liked the best are the Custom Cast orcs based on the art work of Tim Kirk,* the Hildebrand orcs, Sutherland's pig-nosed orcs and the orcs Angus MacBride did for Iron Crown.
Jim's One Monk orcs were inspired by Angus MacBride. Dave Okum has done a good job combining Sutherland's orcs with those of the Hildebrand brothers. Nobody has done anything based on Tim Kirk* for a while. I'll have to se if I can find a picture to post.
A friend recenty showed me some stuff that would help me overcome some of the sculpting problems I've had since I contracted diabetes. I may do some sculpting over the Christmas break, and I think I'll start a line of orcs/goblins based on Big Daddy Roth's Rat Finks!
Have fun! Steve
* I originally had a brain-fart and posted "Tim Kask" when I meant to post "Tim Kirk." Tim Kask was an editor of the Dragon magazine in the late-'70s.
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #15 on Nov 6, 2011, 6:15am »
I'm shocked by the poll so far... Aren't there already other races that look like the humanoid (Option-3) orcs? Especially when shrunk down to paper-mini size? Are we looking at this as book art, or paper-mini art?
Maybe it's just the samples, but looking at the Option-3 pics, I would not have guessed Orcs. And that's on a big screen, not small paper-minis. They actually look more like cat-people or something like that.
Don't we want something that looks different to all the other humanoid races?
Don't we already have an old-school set of orcs ala Jim's version?
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #17 on Nov 6, 2011, 7:42am »
I actually quite like the Angus McBride orcs that Jim based some of his stuff on earlier. In fact, not long after we purchased onemonk, Jim and I discussed doing a collaborative work of orcs based on that very style. Sadly it did not come to fruition, but I still like the style.
If you want to see my own orcs, that I draw all the time in my artwork, you will see something like option 3. Since I drew all those long before throwing up this poll. It would not be difficult to exaggerate certain features to cause them to stand out more as orcs than they do in the illustrations. If I wanted them to look less human, I would probably make the bodies look a bit less human (more gorilla like), and the heads a bit larger, and sunk down into the chest, buried in the trapezius muscles. Just some options.
Another example of my typical orc from past illustrations:
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #21 on Nov 6, 2011, 5:22pm »
Yeah, I would definitely say that that last example is a bit more GW influenced than the other examples I gave with option 3.
Here's something I've been toying with. I sketched this up during church today. Let me know what you guys think. Too top heavy? There's not much detail since I drew it just under 2" tall.
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Re: Orc Designs « Reply #22 on Nov 6, 2011, 5:54pm »
Must have been a heck of a sermon! If I could take my laptop into church, I would have a lot more Shuffler models... but since my father-in-law IS our pastor...
Anyway, the only thing I might suggest is some armor... not to cover up the bare mid-drift, but to actually add some armor plating strapped on with strips of leather. Think of bucklers, and bracers... elbow/knee pads... shoulder pads...
Nothing major, just remnents of armor pieces found and scavenged from previous battles.
That is the ONLY thing I can say that it is lacking. This is INCREDIBLE! You have somehow incorporated ALL of the above styles into a perfect combination that sums up what an Orc should be.
That should pretty much end the poll because you selected "E: ALL OF THE ABOVE!". You have found the solution. Familiar, unique, but fully original.
Re: Orc Designs « Reply #23 on Nov 6, 2011, 11:02pm »
That is an awesome orc, I like it a lot but think he might be a little top-heavy and agree that he could probably do with a bit of armour, and a huge weapon of course .
My thoughts: - larger (and a bit longer) tights - smaller pelvis (i mean, more "trapezoid" shape Then I'd try to see how it look with: - longer arms (the hands to the level of the knees) - larger hands and feet (LARGER, to make proportions less human-like)
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Re: Orc Designs « Reply #25 on Nov 7, 2011, 6:47am »
As always, I agree with Parduz... for the most part.
The hands a little bigger... maybe.
The feet look fine to me.
Longer arms would be perfect. I think Labrat even said himself he wanted to make them ape-like.
Still think I would fill the game table with them now.
ONE small request... Since there are a lot of Fantasy and 40K players, perhaps you can make ones with large melee weapons but also ones with Sci-Fi weapons (not necessarily GW weapons, but if you can make an Orc this awesome, what kind of weapons can you do).
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