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Post by Christopher Roe on May 22, 2009 12:20:04 GMT -9
Those look SHARP, Mel! Very nice work. So are those CraftRobo-ed? Judging by the empty paper shells behind them, I'd say thats a big yes. Could we convince you to do this for all Jim's sets and yours so we can have perfectly cut minis like you? ;D Yep, they were done on the Craft Robo. I wanted to see if it'd gag on all the intricate cutting. Funnily enough, I am working in that direction in my spare time. Heck, I've been trying to make using a Craft ROBO as painless as possible for the end customer for months and months now. I'm almost there. My "dream", for lack of a better word, is to take all the pain out of using a Craft ROBO for everyone--designers and customers alike. Then, and only then, it'll actually finally make sense to buy one of those machines just for the hobby. *grin* -Mel (edited--forgot to quote Kane. Derr.)
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Post by Floyd on May 22, 2009 13:23:05 GMT -9
I love the tight cuts that conform to the figures shape ALOT! I try and do that with my figures using and Xacto but you wouldn't believe how many blades I go through because the very tip of the blades snap so easily... (I am talking the 1st mm or 2)... sight... I'd get a Craft-Robo if you were to make templates for all the figure sets.... LOL
~F
p
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 22, 2009 13:46:27 GMT -9
I love the tight cuts that conform to the figures shape ALOT! I try and do that with my figures using and Xacto but you wouldn't believe how many blades I go through because the very tip of the blades snap so easily... (I am talking the 1st mm or 2)... sight... I'd get a Craft-Robo if you were to make templates for all the figure sets.... LOL That is exactly why I threw my hands up in the air and said "This is a job for Cutbert." I don't mind cutting out large items by hand (like, model parts or whatever), but when I go through 5 #11 blades in an hour because the points keep snapping off, that kind of drives me bananas. When I get to that point with any sort of papercraft task, that's when it's nice to have a Craft ROBO and the ability to use it. I don't think I'm gonna be doing CR templates for ALL of Jim's models myself--that's a pretty huge task for someone who already has an overflowing plate. -Mel
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Post by godofrandomness on May 22, 2009 14:57:25 GMT -9
I love the tight cuts that conform to the figures shape ALOT! I try and do that with my figures using and Xacto but you wouldn't believe how many blades I go through because the very tip of the blades snap so easily... (I am talking the 1st mm or 2)... sight... I'd get a Craft-Robo if you were to make templates for all the figure sets.... LOL ~F p This is why I changed to x-acto blades with a less steep angle. I can't remember what size off the top of my head (x-acto calls it a scoring blade, but it is horrible for scoring), and I have broken only 1 tip, and that was from a crappy generic company's blade
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Post by Aestelon on May 22, 2009 15:08:51 GMT -9
Never broken a scalpel blade ever. ;D Only times I need to change them are when they start to get blunt, or if I use them for sculpting and wind up getting some kind of clay on them.
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Post by abaddonwormwood on May 22, 2009 15:31:14 GMT -9
I get through about 2 to 3 pages without changing blades - but I take my time with each figure - 8mins rather than the standard 3mins that seems to be floating around here.
Mel, If you did a visual step by step on one of Jim's figures I am sure one of us could take up the mantle; of course you would be the one trying them out. If we could get this going for Jim's figures it would be worth investing in a machine. I do have the time for this and a goodly chunk of Jim's sets to play with.
You will have to approach the robocutter crowd and the laminator crowd to get a kickback link through your site. Something that we can click that will link us to the goods and you get a kick back.
Needless to say that this is fantastic work there Mel!
Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 22, 2009 15:59:12 GMT -9
I think making content compatible with Craft Robos is something best done at the point of origin by the designer. I'm working on a set of guidelines and a canned layout that anyone can use to make sure their stuff is properly laid out to fit within the cutting area.
The reason why I say that is because if the original designer doesn't format it accordingly, they'll have to host 2 different versions of each product rather than just one, and not many designers are going to want to do that.
In the case of Jim's figures, the CR layout for the TF special weapons troopers and the Stalkers is not the same as the original document, as I had to move the figure rows down to fit within the cutting area. This would mean that if I submitted the CR templates for these two sets, Jim would end up hosting two different versions of both, when it's really better to just have one version.
-Mel
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Post by squirmydad on May 22, 2009 17:25:52 GMT -9
I second that motion. It's far better to teach people how to do it themselves, so they can apply it to whatever they want. I already put in so much time on the figures already it would make it no longer worth my while to put out several optional files with each figure set.
After seeing that the thing can in fact do complicated cuts for figures it's very tempting to get one, but cutting the figures out is by far the easiest and quickest part of the work.
Now if you can point me to an auto designing machine, then were talk'n! JIM
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 22, 2009 20:17:12 GMT -9
I second that motion. It's far better to teach people how to do it themselves, so they can apply it to whatever they want. I already put in so much time on the figures already it would make it no longer worth my while to put out several optional files with each figure set. Yeah, and there's the fact that there's a bit of chicken-and-egg going on...customers want content before they buy the machines, but designers don't find it worthwhile to develop content because there are so few folks in this hobby that actually own cutting plotters. End result: nobody designs for the machines and nobody buys them. So it makes more sense right now to just show people how to do it themselves, at least until I start hearing more actual Craft Robo owners threatening to fill my wallet with money. *grin* For you, maybe. I'm a bit jealous of all you guys who are like "Eh, it only takes me 30 seconds to cut out a whole page of these fellas. Nothing to it, it's all in the wrist." It takes me forever to cut stuff out, and my wife busts out laughing whenever she sees me bent over the table with my tongue poking out one side of my mouth, hogging stuff out one line at a time. *grin* My Craft Robo's a big help to me in that regard--it cuts stuff out in a few minutes and I don't have to deal with cutting out a giant pile of stuff by hand. I just feed in a sheet, hit a couple buttons, then go back to whatever I was doing until it spits out the finished sheet. We'd be out of a job of there were such a thing on the market. *grin* -Mel
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Post by Floyd on May 23, 2009 5:03:13 GMT -9
I second that motion. It's far better to teach people how to do it themselves, so they can apply it to whatever they want. I already put in so much time on the figures already it would make it no longer worth my while to put out several optional files with each figure set. After seeing that the thing can in fact do complicated cuts for figures it's very tempting to get one, but cutting the figures out is by far the easiest and quickest part of the work. Now if you can point me to an auto designing machine, then were talk'n! JIM Jim, if you got one of these. You could sell your sets precut...like you've been wanting to do at some point down the road. I don't know the durability or wear on one of these so mass production runs might not be economically feesible. But small runs..or better yet as a fast cutting/prototyping machine for you to have your figures finished and ready for photography quicker might be super ideal. Seeing how well this machine performs given what it can do from reading Mel's article and seeing the exceptional results (espeically paper minis) has only made me want one more. I guess I'd need to justify it(to myself and my pocketbook) by designing something the someone would want to buy... ~F
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 23, 2009 11:34:32 GMT -9
Jim, if you got one of these. You could sell your sets precut...like you've been wanting to do at some point down the road. I don't know the durability or wear on one of these so mass production runs might not be economically feesible. But small runs..or better yet as a fast cutting/prototyping machine for you to have your figures finished and ready for photography quicker might be super ideal. Seeing how well this machine performs given what it can do from reading Mel's article and seeing the exceptional results (espeically paper minis) has only made me want one more. I guess I'd need to justify it(to myself and my pocketbook) by designing something the someone would want to buy... The model I have is poorly suited to mass production. I've been cutting every set since the Sandmaster and mailing the precuts out to testers, so I have some practical experience in the precut area. The problems are: 1. Speed. It takes about 5-10 minutes per page to cut, depending on the path complexity and how you're cutting it. That's not a lot of output for a single machine. 2. Cut quality. The blade is a rotary drag knife, and whenever it turns, it tears up the sheet at sharp corners. The reason I laminated my figures is to stop the tearing on the Stalkers, which works, but makes the models really hard to glue together. 3. Materials. You can't use the carrier sheet for mass production, so you have to make your own backing sheets and prep them with a thin layer of repositionable adhesive. That means a lot of spraying of expensive stinky stuff, which may or may not be practical for you. Also, you can't just cut any stock you like--the machine performs best with lightweight stock. 4. Accuracy. You pretty much have to use a photo inkjet printer or a professional printer--my laser printer started to misalign gradually over the span of months, and the printouts were no longer being cut accurately. I had to use my Canon iP6600D, which creates output that is cut far more accurately...but costs shoot through the roof. 5. Cost. This can't be done profitably on such basic equipment--I consistently see manufacturing costs that are equal to or higher than a comfortable MSRP. For example, the Percheron clocked in at $12 for a print-and-cut, which is too high for a single model of that size. So, the only thing a single Craft Robo is good for is prototyping and automating repetitive cutting tasks. If you want to use it for production purposes, you might as well stock up on Maalox and put your therapist on speed-dial. *grin* -Mel
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 27, 2009 18:11:09 GMT -9
I recolored some of the Terra Force Auxiliary set, because the extra player figure variety is useful. Also, female figures are important 'cause I'm sure my wife and stepdaughters don't want to use a big burly he-man figure. Bonus: I don't forget who's the medic and who's the tech specialist anymore. *grin* I didn't keep the snipers or the scouts, since they're outdoorsy types, so I replaced them with a couple of ethnic variants of the basic TF soldier, which for some silly reason I forgot to do in the original set. I sent the files off to Jim earlier. He'll let everyone know when they're ready. *grin* -Mel
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Post by Floyd on May 27, 2009 18:31:01 GMT -9
The extra variety of figures and poses are a welcome addition. I was going to put a red cross on the shoulder pad of one of the TerraForce Marines in the other set to denote the Medic(or a white shoulderpad). But these work even better. Nice job! ~F ps. Got the other set printed and cut. And in a fit of OCD I added a small amount of highlight/shadow to give the soldiers fatigues a bit more of a folded clothy look. And some shadowing under the gun/torso to show a little more seperation. The Stalkers I used some beveling and dodging to give them a bit more of a shiny /slippery look. (but not like the OneMonk originals). None of it seems to have taken away from your muted more natural look, nor Jim's over-all style...just a bit of experimentation really... I'll post some images just for examples.
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 27, 2009 20:27:41 GMT -9
The extra variety of figures and poses are a welcome addition. I was going to put a red cross on the shoulder pad of one of the TerraForce Marines in the other set to denote the Medic(or a white shoulderpad). But these work even better. Nice job! I was gonna put little icons on their bases, but since Jim already had the figures and some of them were female, I figured I might as well recolor them. I generally just let Jim's original shading do most of the work, 'cause I don't want to stray too far from his style with these figures. Also, cloth shading tends to get lost in camouflage, and you end up with something "messy", where you can't tell if it's a 3 color pattern with cloth shading or a 4 color pattern. (Same principle applies when painting camo on plastic/metal figures--you usually don't shade camouflage uniforms because that makes the pattern look messy and indistinct.) I thought about doing something like that, but I didn't want to stray too far from Jim's style. Be interesting to see how they turn out. *grin* -Mel
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Post by josedominguez on May 28, 2009 2:07:40 GMT -9
How easy is it to create the cutting template for the robo?
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 28, 2009 12:19:16 GMT -9
How easy is it to create the cutting template for the robo? It's not hard, but it is kind of involved. It can be done quite adequately with free software and the controller software included with the machine. I can do a tutorial for Jim's figures, but I don't know if there's any demand for Craft Robo tutorials, considering the fact that I seem to be the only one here that owns the machine. *grin* -Mel
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Post by Floyd on May 28, 2009 14:01:12 GMT -9
Ok here is a sample of the 1st row of the Mel colored TerraForce Soldiers. Yes, went a little crazy with the presentation. The models are not altered and are 1:1(other than what I did with your re-colors). Other than add a bevel to the outline to appear as the models would be cut out. Its probably subjective...but I think the minor bit of shading and gun adds to it though maybe I should have put an untouched one next to it for comparison. I hope you don't mind me borrowing a texture from your Objective set & the GunCrawl corridor tile and elements of the Game Manual.( I'll remove them if you wish, since I didn't ask your permission). It really did start with just a simple complimentary colored background, but I thought it'd be fun to put them in an environment to see how they'd look. And well...needless to say my lunch break went fast at work today. no lunch...but a lot of crunching in Photoshop. I'll post the example of the Hybrids as soon as I get them done. The TF looks just like above printed on both Laser and Inkjet on 110lb cardstock. ~F
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 28, 2009 14:20:18 GMT -9
Dude.
Just...dude.
Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor. These make my recolored originals look really bland in comparison. Now I wanna do the same thing. *grin*
-Mel
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Post by abaddonwormwood on May 28, 2009 14:30:47 GMT -9
Fl0yd you are a Photoshop-freak, that's fantastic. Mel should talk to you about doing some Poster Art for recruitment for GunCrawl - both ads for BBG and internal ads.
Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
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Post by onemonkeybeau on May 28, 2009 14:37:10 GMT -9
Floyd, Mel, and Jim,
Any chance of working some deal out to release these recolors of a recolor?
If one of our goals is creating paper figs that look like metal figs... I think Floyd may be on to something!
Nice job Floyd (as usual!)
I also don't think this detracts from Jim's style at all... in fact, I think it enhances it... if that's possible!
onemonkeybeau
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 28, 2009 15:08:18 GMT -9
I like the idea, but I don't know how practical it is. I know Jim's got a heaping plate just with the new stuff, and I don't know if you guys really want Jim to go through all the trouble of rebuilding every re-released set and adding it to the store when he could be working on new stuff instead.
Also, I already got zillions of the things cut out and assembled, and I'm not about to do it all over again myself. *grin*
So, I think a better approach would be to, depending on how Jim and Floyd feel about it, incorporate Floyd's modifications into my original recolored versions later in the future, and just do it as an update. Like, after Jim has a chance to get some new stuff out the door first.
-Mel
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Post by Dagger on May 28, 2009 15:23:00 GMT -9
Excellent work... you've really added some dimension the figures...
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Post by josedominguez on May 29, 2009 2:03:01 GMT -9
I love the stalker shadows in the background.
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Post by squirmydad on May 29, 2009 4:00:37 GMT -9
That turned out incredible! This is just the kind of promotional images I'll be pestering Floyd for in the coming future... I'll release any high quality recolored set that is completely finished and tested. See my topic for what I want, although I'm sure Floyd is quite familiar with what I want... onemonk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=selling&action=display&thread=921Mel is right though. For each recolored set, it means I have to take the time to actually build all the models myself for store and web graphics. This is the only way I can keep the look and feel of the finished graphics the same. I don't mind doing it if it's a good set of recolors. By far the building and photographing is the fastest part of the process. I do however like to do all of this stuff at the same time, so always wait until I have one of my own sets finished as well to economize my time. SO ,go ahead and do whatever recolors you want. When they are finished and tested, send them to me and I'll get them released at the next convenient opportunity. JIM
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Post by Dagger on May 29, 2009 7:33:05 GMT -9
I just can't get over the effect the beveling has on the sense of depth those figures have...
In regard to producing 2d flats that closely replicate cast minis beveling may just be the most significant advancement since the black border...
You really should post a side-by-side comparison...
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Post by magpiestear on May 29, 2009 8:49:41 GMT -9
Way to go Floyd. They look awesome. When I first saw the image a thought it was a shot of the 'box art' for Jims pre cuts (in plasticard!). I didn't even notice the stalker shadows until reading the other posts! Now if someone could design a simple box construction to use with that image We'd have the ideal storage for the game components!
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Post by Floyd on May 29, 2009 12:03:49 GMT -9
Here is the Stalker(parts are 1:1 but assembled in Photoshop for thid image). I have built this version and thought t looked fairly good. If anyone has seen or played Doom 3 on the PC or xbox or even seen screenshots you will note how it had this cool hyper-real, almost surreal lighting and bump map effects shader. This is totally what the end result of the stalker shown here reminds me of....for better or worse. lol. I also included the unshaded version for a comparison. Here are the parts. I will post a step by step GIF animation of what I did for the Marine shading. I think all of you could simply recreat it yourself. I am writing this on my phone so apologies for any overt typos'etc. Hopefully the hand typed URL's worked. At 6pt size this font is hella hard to read. ~F
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Post by Christopher Roe on May 29, 2009 12:19:59 GMT -9
Wow...that looks very good!
If you can email me the specifics, I can revise them, then we can simply have Jim update my recolored packages in the future and change the credits so that the three of us have joint authorship over this project.
For that matter, if you have the finished files already, you could email them to me for review, and I'll get 'em ready for Jim. (There's some stuff I want to add to the set.)
-Mel
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Post by abaddonwormwood on May 29, 2009 12:41:19 GMT -9
Wow - simply wow!
Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
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Post by magpiestear on May 29, 2009 12:54:05 GMT -9
Floyd you're tricking us aren't you. That's not a shaded recolour is it? That's got to be a painted plastic figure!!!!!!!!!!!! (Jim we need a jaw dropping smiley!!) Those really are the bees knees. If you lot can produce figures that good then it looks like my metal ones may yet be consigned to ebay!! Keep up the good work
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