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Post by onemonkeybeau on Aug 30, 2009 6:08:38 GMT -9
Hey Dagger!
Thanks for the quick reply and answers!
I'm looking forward to the 2nd edition of the playtest rules!
Onemonkeybeau
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Post by umungus on Aug 30, 2009 9:19:47 GMT -9
Hi everyone, I am a newbie here. My first post. I was one of onemonkeybeau's victims for the playtest. We had a lot of fun. I have to admit, I am a big Battletech fan. So, getting me to like another Mech game is a tough sell. In the end I really liked it a lot and look forward to the next game. My son (12) played and had a lot of fun. The rules were simple and easy to catch on to. We seemed to all be experts within a few rounds. We even had a new player (as in never ever played a wargame or RPG before). He caught on quickly and got two kills. The damage pattern rules are very cool. It was fun to peek at others sheets and see all those darkened boxes. hehehe. I think it simulates the idea that armor loses usefulness in certain areas the more it gets hit brilliantly. ;D onemonkeybeau listed most of our questions. I think we were also foggy on turning. Does turning to another hex facing cost a move point? and where are the firing arcs for the mechs? How do you flank an oponent? I think overall you have a great start on a fast paced fun game. I keep thinking about possibilities for large scale battles with troops and bases and that sort of thing. Maybe even a campaign where the players have to repair their mecha with whats left of the enemies mecha..... (onemonkeybeau, I hope you don't mind if I piped in about the game
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Aug 30, 2009 12:00:22 GMT -9
Hey Chris! Not at all! Glad you're here! Now if I can just get you designing some of your awesome Mechs and other figs for us... onemonkeybeau
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Post by umungus on Aug 30, 2009 14:16:01 GMT -9
Sure, I can come up with something if people are intereted. I am a big fan of battle suit type stuff. I have worn out a couple of copies os 'Starship Troopers' (the book, not the movie) and 'Forever War'. So, if I get a chance to do some battle suit stomping in a game I'm all over it... ;D
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Post by Dagger on Aug 30, 2009 19:21:06 GMT -9
I'm glad you guys liked it... and I can relate to your love of BattleTech. I played that game quite a bit back in the day. Unfortunately BattleTech just got bogged down with too many rules that tried to make the game more like a simulation and less like a game.
Anyway, in Battle Mecha moving is really easy... there are no hexes... just move from where you are now to where you want to be and then choose the direction you want to be facing... within your allowed movement distance of course.
Flanking - The hex base the Mecha is mounted on defines the Mecha's firing arcs. In v2 of the playtest rules there is a bonus for firing into a target's rear arc... and if you get into another Mecha's left or right arc the number of weapons they can fire at you is limited.
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Post by umungus on Aug 31, 2009 14:06:53 GMT -9
Thanks for the reply about the movement rules. Easy stuff. I hear you about Battletech getting too complicated. Just resolving the modofiers to- hit gets convoluted. Not to compare the games too much. They are very different styles of games. If you get what I mean. You know my son had two of his friends over yesterday. They are usually glued to the xbox. My son wanted to teach them the Battle Mecha game. He was still pretty stoked about it. I don't have a copy so they ended up playing Battletech instead. I could tell they were getting bogged down with the rules. They still liked it and ended up playing the rest of the day. My son (Zack) insisted they would "....like the Mecha game better. You get to blow stuff up way faster...hehehhe!" So, Battle Mecha rates higher than Xbox 360 with all the 12 year olds I know. I think that is pretty high praise.
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Post by Dagger on Aug 31, 2009 18:28:49 GMT -9
I'm glad to hear that BattleMecha can compete with Xbox... that's impressive. I sent you over the playtest rules so you can continue the fight against Micro$oft...
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Post by umungus on Aug 31, 2009 18:35:54 GMT -9
Thanks a million!!! We will dedicate the next Alpha strike to you!!! ;D
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Aug 31, 2009 23:52:23 GMT -9
Alright!
Had a friend come over tonight and we played our second game of Battle Mechs.
This time we decided to do a lot more than just one mecha... We added just about everything...
The play session brought up some more questions so here we go:
1. The version 1 of the plytedt rules included a section specifically for the movement of troops... More specifically the fact that if they rush their activation ends. I didn't see this in version 2. Is this still the case? What about vehicles... Can these units shoot after rushing?
2. We thought that when a Crew Served Weapon explodes it would make sense to roll on the Troop Hit Table due to exploding ammo and shrapnel.
3. And speaking of troops... Boy are those guys hard to kill! It almost seems that the damage table matrix should be upped more... If my Heavy Missile hit a Light Infrantry I would think I'd Have a better chance of losing more than three Strength Points.
4. It seemed to us that heavy infrantry troops should be allowed to have medium or heavy weapons... Is there a reason why they don't ?
5. It also seemed to us that the RMGS should cost at least 2 Bp... But probably 3... As if allowed to use even after the unit possesing it is destroyed (same round of course) the balance would be off. Either this, or the RMGS's influence might do well to be lessened a bit.
6. Also regarding the RMGS, do the friendly mechs and troops firing the missles, using the data provided use the Stand Fast modifier if they didn't move?
Ok I think that's about it for now!
Thanks for creating such a great game and letting us mold it!
We're playing again soon, so we'll probably have more questions then!
Onemonkeybeau
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Post by Dagger on Sept 1, 2009 5:13:05 GMT -9
Great! I'm glad you're liking it....
1. The version 1 of the plytedt rules included a section specifically for the movement of troops... More specifically the fact that if they rush their activation ends. I didn't see this in version 2. Is this still the case? What about vehicles... Can these units shoot after rushing?
Before there were different movement rules for the different unit types... this proved to be a little confusing and not inline with the primary objective of keeping everything simple. Now all unit types have more consistent movement rules.
2. We thought that when a Crew Served Weapon explodes it would make sense to roll on the Troop Hit Table due to exploding ammo and shrapnel.
Crew Served Weapons get destroyed, but they don't necessarily explode... maybe the barrel just got bent. It's an interesting idea though, I'll have to look over the Troop Damage Table again...
3. And speaking of troops... Boy are those guys hard to kill! It almost seems that the damage table matrix should be upped more... If my Heavy Missile hit a Light Infrantry I would think I'd Have a better chance of losing more than three Strength Points.
Currently all weapons have the same damage potential against troops... because of all of the variables involved in damaging troops. I'm trying to think of other ideas to smooth that out though... really a Heavy missile should have more damage potential than a Light missile. Also make sure you are using the Troop stats from version 2 of the playtest rules... they changed.
4. It seemed to us that heavy infrantry troops should be allowed to have medium or heavy weapons... Is there a reason why they don't ?
I want to keep the focus of the game on Mecha... and Troops seem pretty powerful for the cost already.
5. It also seemed to us that the RMGS should cost at least 2 Bp... But probably 3... As if allowed to use even after the unit possesing it is destroyed (same round of course) the balance would be off. Either this, or the RMGS's influence might do well to be lessened a bit.
Have you played it both ways?... allowing the RGMS effect to live or and having the RGMS effect end when the Mecha is destroyed?
6. Also regarding the RMGS, do the friendly mechs and troops firing the missles, using the data provided use the Stand Fast modifier if they didn't move?
The RGMS allows friendly units to use LOS and Range from the RGMS equipped unit's perspective... all other modifiers are from the firing unit's perspective.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Sept 1, 2009 7:07:25 GMT -9
Great! That clears up a lot! So just to make sure we play it correctly next time: 1. All units can RUSH and then fire if desired. 2. Friendly Units (non-troop) taking advantage of an RGMS enabled troop can add the Stand Fast modifier if they don't move before letting loose. I know what you mean about the troops being strong... I think having the different weapons do different intensities of damage would smooth that out a bit... just not quite sure how to go about that. We have only played with allowing the RGMS to stay active even if the originating unit is destroyed... this only makes sense as all the coordinates would have already been downloaded to freindly computers. This brings up another question though. What happens if the unit that has been targeted with an RGMS moves during the same round it was locked on? Do you lose coordianates? Should you only lock on to units that have already been activated that round? And lastly, what about using the Bp number in conjunction with the Troop Damage Table to model more deadly impact by the different weapons? I'm thinking of decreasing the modifiers by one on the table and then applying the Bp for damage... For example, my Medium Missile hits some troops, I roll a 3... the Bp for a Medium Missile is 2 and the new modifier (for this example) is -1 Sv.... so that troop got hit for 2+1 = -3Sv... but the same troop hit by a heavy missile under these rules and example would be hit for 3+1=4Sv... I hope that makes sense... I'm typing fast before a meeting That might work.. we'll playtest it and let you know. onemonkeybeau
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Post by Dagger on Sept 1, 2009 9:50:19 GMT -9
Yes, with a penalty according to the Combat Modifier Table of course.
Yes... even Troop units with a Light Missile equipped as their Crew Served Weapon.
That's a very good point... with that in mind I think it would only make sense to play it that RGMS ends if the RGMS equipped unit is destroyed. And also clarify that RGMS allows friendly units to use the RGMS equipped unit's CURRENT LOS/Range perspective. That makes RGMS more of a streaming connection constantly sending updates. Things should be simpler that way... and gives players of a RGMS target tactical options...
What about this... apply a modifier based on the weapon's class when you roll on the Troop Damage Table... for example +1 if hit with a Medium and +2 if hit with a Heavy Weapon. It's nice and simple and will slide the result more toward the critical end of the table resulting in bigger weapons doing more damage.
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Post by umungus on Sept 1, 2009 13:29:06 GMT -9
I hope you don't mind if I pipe in... As an x- ground pounder I will say that heavy weapons just aren't that effective against units of ground troops. The advantage is that infantry can spread out and take cover. retreat and regroup. This has been shown throughout history. Such as in Okinowa WWII or at Hill 937 in Vietnam. The areas would get bombed to dust and then the infantry would crawl out of their holes to fight some more. In the game, a weapon that can do a lot of damage to a mecha is designed for armor penetration. Not for anti- personnel. A laser or a missile with a shaped charge explosive may do massive amounts of damage to a Mecha. but it will do neglegable damage to a group of troops. The troops can spread out and take cover. Armor penetrating weapons are designed to concentrate on a small area of armor. It may devastate a few at a time but not get them all. I would say that the best against infantry should be the machine guns. That is why in real life there is a whole host of weapons that are specific to anti- vehicle or anti- personnel roles. I'm not saying that infantry is a match for armor, I'm just saying that they are a little more tenacious than would be expected.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Sept 1, 2009 14:54:37 GMT -9
Well said Chris!
What if we said: +2 for projectile-type weapons (machine guns, etc...) +1 for missile-type weapons (missile, cannon, etc...) +0 for energy-type weapons (laser, etc...)
I'm assuming you're going to add more weapons in future expansions, so I expect that they will fall under one of these categories.
onemonkeybeau
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Post by Dagger on Sept 1, 2009 15:47:06 GMT -9
I hope you don't mind if I pipe in... As an x- ground pounder I will say that heavy weapons just aren't that effective against units of ground troops. The advantage is that infantry can spread out and take cover. retreat and regroup. This has been shown throughout history. Such as in Okinowa WWII or at Hill 937 in Vietnam. The areas would get bombed to dust and then the infantry would crawl out of their holes to fight some more. In the game, a weapon that can do a lot of damage to a mecha is designed for armor penetration. Not for anti- personnel. A laser or a missile with a shaped charge explosive may do massive amounts of damage to a Mecha. but it will do neglegable damage to a group of troops. The troops can spread out and take cover. Armor penetrating weapons are designed to concentrate on a small area of armor. It may devastate a few at a time but not get them all. I would say that the best against infantry should be the machine guns. That is why in real life there is a whole host of weapons that are specific to anti- vehicle or anti- personnel roles. I'm not saying that infantry is a match for armor, I'm just saying that they are a little more tenacious than would be expected. Pipe in any time you like... I agree completely and that is exactly what I was thinking with the first pass of the Troop rules. However, several playtesters have commented that it just doesn't feel right for more powerful weapons to have the same damage potential as weaker weapons. I do like the idea of different "types" of weapons being better suited against Troops... but implementing that can get a little complicated and goes against the premise of my goal which is to keep the game simple yet tactical and less of a simulation.
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Post by Dagger on Sept 1, 2009 15:56:02 GMT -9
What if we said: +2 for projectile-type weapons (machine guns, etc...) +1 for missile-type weapons (missile, cannon, etc...) +0 for energy-type weapons (laser, etc...) That would mean that a Light Machine Gun would have the same damage potential as a Heavy Machine Gun... Give the following Troop Damage Table modifiers a try and see how they work. Light Weapons +0 Medium Weapons +1 Heavy Weapons +2
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Post by umungus on Sept 1, 2009 17:18:26 GMT -9
I think that would make sense and still keep it streamlined.
I'm gonna have to try it out on onemonkeybeau's troops..hehehe ;D
I'm building some mechas right now.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Sept 1, 2009 17:47:25 GMT -9
Heh heh... Not if I get to you yours first! onemonkeybeau
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Post by Sirrob01 on Sept 2, 2009 17:20:07 GMT -9
onemonkeybeau I'd be interested to see how you'd go with an all troop vs mecha battle, we played again on the weekend and the light mecha got torn apart by a same Bp troop army (sorry no pic's this time). I'm interested to try out the above mod's as well, but doubt I'll get a game in this weekend. As a side note tanks definitely need a tweak or two...but I haven't had a chance to playtest any ideas through...sorry I am assuming of course same Bp army vs same Bp army should have an even chance of winning on the day all troop vs all tank vs all mecha etc (ie theres no bias in the point system to mecha etc )
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Post by Dagger on Sept 2, 2009 17:32:20 GMT -9
I am assuming of course same Bp army vs same Bp army should have an even chance of winning on the day all troop vs all tank vs all mecha etc (ie theres no bias in the point system to mecha etc ) That is certainly one of the primary goals for the playtest is to sort out the Bp cost of the Troops and Vehicles in relation to the Mecha. It's best done after all of the game mechanic tweaks though. As a side note, I'd rather there be a slight bias towards Mecha though... I want the focus of the game to be on the Mecha with Troops and Vehicles playing support roles.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Sept 3, 2009 23:19:10 GMT -9
Ok! Just got done with our third game. This time we used the adjusted rules concerning different rated weapons vs. troops... and... we love it! It feels so much better to have a Heavy Missile do way more damage than a light machine gun! We vote to change the rules officially! Now, on to more questions 1. For RUSHing troops, we think they should be able to fire their individual weapons with no penalty and a +1 penalty to set up and fire their Crew Served Weapon. 2. Can Troops and Vehicles have upgraded weaponry such as Armor Piercing Rounds and Twin Linked weapons? 3. Can you rotate and then move? 4. Can Ammo and Fuel Cell Explosions stack? For example, when the Critical Systems Area is exposed in multiple places on my opponent's Armor Grid and I roll a 2 (fuel cell explosion). I then roll a D10 and then start peppering his Mech with explosions. One of the explosions hits his Critical Area already exposed, do I roll on the Critical Chart again possibly getting another Ammo/Fuel Cell explosion? We played both ways and racked up 20+ explosions due to stacking... The Mech finally died, but it took a LONG time. Our suggestion is if a Ammo/Fuel cell explosion hits an already exposed Critical Systems Area, the Mech is killed. 5. When rolling on the Mecha Critical Hit Table, currently the rules state regarding the Hard Points, "If already destroyed or not equipped, roll again." We like the options we have when installing weapons on the Hard Points which makes Hard Points always present (unless it's destroyed). So why wouldn't the Hard Point be destroyed even if no weapon is present? Instead of "roll again" how about the "Mech is Destroyed?" The reason for this is the Hard Point was already destroyed once and the only way to destroy a Hard Point is by rolling on the Critical Hit Table to destroy it. We think a double hit to the same area (under the critical hit table) would seriously damage the Mech. We'd like to say that this game ROCKS! We love it! We're playing again tomorrow night and look forward to hearing your replies. onemonkeybeau
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Post by Dagger on Sept 5, 2009 7:03:43 GMT -9
Awesome! I'm glad you like the adjusted Troop Damage rules. Consider them adopted.
I apologize for the delay... I've been WAY busy the last couple of days...
Rushing Troops - Interesting idea. I would even go a step further and say that rushing Troops may not fire their Crew Served Weapon this round. It's simple and is a cost for rushing, similar to the heat cost for Mecha... and it distinguishes them from Vehicles more. Give that idea a try and see how it plays.
Upgraded Troops and Vehicles - There will not be any customization rules for Troops and Vehicles in the core game... gotta save something for the expansion.
Rotate and then move - You don't need to... you can move in any direction you want to and then turn to the facing of your choice. Mecha arcs are firing arcs only and are not used for movement.
Fuel/Ammo explosions triggering critical hit rolls - I'm undecided on this one... I wanted to try it as it is now and allow damage from a Fuel/Ammo explosion to trigger more rolls on the Critical Hit Table... but if that becomes to confusing with cascading critical hits then it may be simpler to just say that Fuel/Ammo Explosion damage does not trigger rolls on the Critical Hit Table. How do you think it plays now?
Hardpoints - weapons come with the hardpoint and are basically part of the same component. For example, if you build a custom Mecha with torso equipment only... it would not have hardpoints on its "arms". So if you take a critical hit on your custom Mecha it would not make sense to have its left arm hardpoint destroyed... so you would roll again.
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Post by umungus on Sept 8, 2009 20:24:41 GMT -9
Well I played Battl eMecha again. This time with my son and his friend. We all used 3 heavy mechs each. They made theirs with a variety of weapons. I built my Mecha all with one RGMS- remote guided missile system and three Heavy rocket launchers.
One of my Mecha got within range of one of his. The other two were about 18 inches away behind cover. I rolled for a missile lock and let loose with all the rocket launchers from all three mecha. A devastating tactic. It took big chunks out of the armor. It also made him use his AMDS- anti- missile system which raised his heat. Not all missiles hit maybe about 6. He wasn't detroyed, but heavily damaged He couldn't do anything without the heat going too high.
I was surpried at how effective the RGMS is...
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Post by Dagger on Sept 9, 2009 15:44:52 GMT -9
That's great... it sounds like it played just like I designed it to. Just remember that the other firing Mecha have to wait for their turn to fire... that's how you played it right?
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Post by umungus on Sept 10, 2009 16:15:16 GMT -9
We all roll initiative and then the highest roll goes first and moves all of his units and then fires weapons, then next lowest initiative player moves....
Is that right? or does every unit that you have get its own initiative?
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Sept 10, 2009 18:13:23 GMT -9
Hey Chris! We didn't play with multiple figs last game we played did we? How I understand the rules all players roll for initiative. The highest rolling player activates one unit and then the next highest roll activates one unit. Play alternates back and forth Like this until all units, from all players, have been activated. Repeat until one side is left standing... Is the right Dagger? Onemonkeybeau
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Post by umungus on Sept 10, 2009 18:21:03 GMT -9
Hey Beau, Yeh I'd like to get the scoop on that...
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Post by Dagger on Sept 11, 2009 15:22:34 GMT -9
How I understand the rules all players roll for initiative. The highest rolling player activates one unit and then the next highest roll activates one unit. Play alternates back and forth Like this until all units, from all players, have been activated. Repeat until one side is left standing... Is the right Dagger? Yep... that's right... The only problem I see with that is when one player has many more units than the other player. I'm thinking that if it gets to the point where one player has twice as many units as the other players (or more), then that player would move two units per activation...
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Post by umungus on Sept 11, 2009 15:59:07 GMT -9
Thanks for the clarification guys. I guess I unfairly thrashed on the boys Mechs... Most games I have played have all the peices move as a unit. Your way makes more sense because they also get to fire on their move.
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Post by WaffleM on Nov 26, 2009 17:16:08 GMT -9
Because we are nearing completion on the rules and miniatures, our request for playtesters is now CLOSED. If you have not emailed either of us (dagger or wafflem) your feedback forms and game photos, please do so as soon as possible. Thanks again for all your help! The play test package is complete! It include the Battle Mecha rules written by Dagger, a set of basic mech models, and all the tokens needed to play the game. The game incorporates an amazing Armor Grid that gives the game a unique weapon damage system. Designed to have simple rules, the Battle Mecha game combines fast gameplay with strategic weapon choices to create a fun wargame of 15mm mecha combat. Please PM me or Dagger if you would like to be part of the game play test. All testers will receive a complimentary copy of the game and miniatures. Please note, as part of the play test you have to complete a simple feedback form and email us a photograph of the Battle Mecha game in progress. Thanks! -WaffleM
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