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Post by WaffleM on Apr 29, 2010 16:44:22 GMT -9
Stay tuned for glimpses of an upcoming Armor Grid: Mech Attack expansion...
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Post by squirmydad on Apr 29, 2010 18:00:13 GMT -9
Code name "BUG ATTACK" Chimera Hybrid Armor Grid game expansion. Here are the collected sketches I have for the figures needed. In total I'll be designing two small infantry style troops, two medium and two large support and ordinance beasts. Here are some notes for the figures needed. Thanks for offering to do an expansion with us. I'm glad you like our game, and I'm really excited to see what you can add to it.
I think a "Bug" faction would be a great addition to Mech Attack. It would certainly add some needed variety. Nothing to extravagant, I like to keep it simple. Something along the lines of your hybrids with bio-weapons would be cool. Maybe a Mech Attack meets Starship Troopers kinda thing. As a different faction I would like to give it a distinctly different flavor with the rules. Game wise, I'm thinking something along the lines of:
Weapons - weapons have to function similar to current weapons because of the way the Armor Grid works, but Mat and I were just talking the other day about how to have weapons with a different flavor. One way we came up with was a weapon that had two fire modes instead of just one. So I'm thinking this faction can have fewer weapon choices, but those weapons have dual modes. They wouldn't have as many choices as Terrans, but would have more versatility. So maybe Light, Medium, and Heavy versions of the following:
Machine Gun / Laser combo Machine Gun / Missile combo Missile / Laser combo
Mech-Bugs (30mm, 40mm, 50mm bases) - We would need a Light, Medium, and Heavy with 4 weapon mounting points. 1 on each "arm" and 2 in the "torso" area. They don't really have to all look as similar to each other like our Mechs do. I would just like to keep the Light at 45mm, Medium at 50mm, and Heavy at 55mm.
Troop models (40mm bases) - If they are more bug-like, I don't see them operating a crew served weapon. Terran troops effectively have two Light weapons; individual weapons equivalent to a light machine gun and a light crew served weapon. Maybe troop bugs only have individual weapons equivalent to a light machine gun and a close range acid attack that functions the same as flamethrowers in a future expansion I have planned. Maybe a standard version, a hardened version, and a version with legs made for jumping.
Vehicles - No vehicles. This faction should have more of a troop swarm feel, just a little though.
With that baseline I think I can tweak the rest of the rules to balance everything out. That's 3 mech-bug types and 3 troop-bug types for a total model variety of 6... should be plenty. Do you have a copy of the rules yet? If not we can send you a complimentary copy via RPGnow.... just let us know.
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Post by Dagger on Apr 29, 2010 18:37:28 GMT -9
Schweeet!... That Behemoth looks really, really mean... I like it. I especially like the face on that troop model... the one with the extruded lower jaw... that look is very menacing. Put some talons on that guy and I'd be afraid to print it...
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Post by Parduz on Apr 29, 2010 23:36:57 GMT -9
WOW!!! This is great. Please, please, PLEASE, keep them simple to cut for ppl with no crafting skills like me!!! About different weapons: acid spits? That "eat" some square of armor each turn? With "ballistic" rules? (so, no LOS required, if another creature of the hive see you?)
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Post by tugunmojo on Apr 30, 2010 4:07:49 GMT -9
Now, that's what I'm talking about! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Floyd on Apr 30, 2010 4:12:15 GMT -9
G R E A T I D E A !!!!!
Mixing Organics in there is a great move away from standard Mech on Mech combat. Really looking forward to seeing this come together!
~F
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Post by onemonkeybeau on May 1, 2010 8:04:07 GMT -9
Oh man... this is GREAT!
onemonkeybeau
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Post by squirmydad on May 1, 2010 12:06:52 GMT -9
After rereading the requirements of the designs ,I am going to alter my approach to this. I'm going to take the opportunity to redo the Chimera Hybrid 30mm scale figures as well, but not in 3 color formats like I have, just 1 color scheme, sorry, but the alternate color schemes just take too long.
Also, the weapon options will be limited to certain figure types, no longer will all the weapons go with any figure, that's just too crazy, I think there are like thousands of variations that can be made. I'd rather just have like three per troop type.
For these figures I'll just be using the basic ground troops, no flyers. I'm sure in time you guys will want to add flyers, but like you said, simple first.
I need to do 3 troop type figures, and 3 mech type figures. I am working on establishing the look of each troop type and and what weapons to arm them with. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how to design the mech size bugs to have 4 arm/weapon mounting points at the smaller scale without being a nightmare to build. We may have to go with arm/weapon combos and just offer 3 different weapons for each. I'll see what I can come up with.
Also ,I'll build the game so I can check my designs against the current game parts, and photo graph them for you guys with my designs. JIM
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Post by Dagger on May 1, 2010 12:36:32 GMT -9
I was thinking that bug-mechs don't absolutely need to have 4 mounting points. Mechs have 4 mounting points but they also have to deal with heat. I can't think of a good balancing equivalent for heat to use with the bugs.... so what if the bugs don't have heat to deal with, but to balance that they only have 2 mounting points. If their weapons are combo style, they will have just as much versatility in the game because of the way damage profiles work. Especially if the bug-mechs have some type of close-combat talon attack... I think I can balance them out quite nicely.
So I guess my point is.... don't feel pressured to put all 4 mounting points on the bug-mechs.
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Post by Parduz on May 1, 2010 13:09:47 GMT -9
Jim: i don't remember exactly what you're using to paint your models, but i want to point out that in CorelDraw X..? there's is VBA macros. I already done some macros that, changing the colors of the filling of a square, it changes all the fills of a figure. If your design program have some advanced macro capability, i will be happy to look at them and try to automate a trivial task like setting colors of an already set gradient fill. Dagger: If the weapons are "organic" (like spitting acid or something similar) you may think to a fixed number of turns to recover before being able to use that weapons again.... or to a variable weapon power depending by how much time that weapon "rested".... dunno if this makes any sense
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Post by squirmydad on May 1, 2010 14:11:41 GMT -9
I was thinking that bug-mechs don't absolutely need to have 4 mounting points. Mechs have 4 mounting points but they also have to deal with heat. I can't think of a good balancing equivalent for heat to use with the bugs.... so what if the bugs don't have heat to deal with, but to balance that they only have 2 mounting points. If their weapons are combo style, they will have just as much versatility in the game because of the way damage profiles work. Especially if the bug-mechs have some type of close-combat talon attack... I think I can balance them out quite nicely. So I guess my point is.... don't feel pressured to put all 4 mounting points on the bug-mechs. I understand your flexible, I just want to come as close to the brief as possible. I think being an organic army, it may be better to just have different troops altogether rather than different armaments on the same troops. I think once I get on a roll, I can design these fairly quickly, although I know there is no set date for this, I am a bit excited to revisit the hybrid designs. I'll see what I can come up with for designs ,and we can develop this as we go. For now ,I'll just try to match as best I can the current design requirements. We may have to be flexible on measurements because of all the spiky armor bits, and weapons mounted on the tops. Parduz, thanks for the offer ,but I use Canvas 8 which is almost ten years old now, and I can't for the life of me figure out it's macro functions at all. I figure, what I'll do is provide the figures in 30mm scale ,just like I am doing with the Wraiths, uncolored vector art, then anyone can color to match. I know couple guys here have Canvas, and can adapt the colors from my previous designs. So there is hope that someone can make the old color schemes, I'll gladly post them to the website. I just wan to come up with a new color scheme, because I like to. Here is a final pencil design for the Cannoneer Ordinance Beast. This would be considered a Medium mech-type troop for the game.
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Post by Dagger on May 1, 2010 14:26:48 GMT -9
The cannoneer is looking fantastic. That face is going to give me nightmares... I love that look. I especially like your 2.5D design elements too... if I understand the way it goes together, the curved carapace is going to be way cool.
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Post by squirmydad on May 1, 2010 15:26:52 GMT -9
Here is a mock-up of the Cannoneer. I like how it looks overall, and I see many things that need to be tweaked. 1. The back carapace needs to be narrowed toward the base of the torso, so it doesn't interfere with the leg movements. 2. The guns need to be angled upward slightly more, this is minor. 3. The knees on the legs need to go to the ground. I want to do this so the legs are stronger, if you accidentally put to much weight on the model, the legs will twist. With the knees on the ground ,the model will have more support. And just figure that the thing sits down to fire. 4. I think the head would look better smaller. 5. The arms and hands look good. I have thought about giving them long claws instead of hands for basic close combat. Other than this, I only have to tweak the slots and such, and do the interior art for the body and leg carapace.
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Post by squirmydad on May 1, 2010 15:39:16 GMT -9
Another thing that just came to mind is making the front leg carapace parts larger, sort of like shields, this would really protect the thing from incoming fire. And maybe reduce the size of the rear leg carapace parts as well, this would also make it look less symmetrical, and more animalistic. JIM
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Post by Parduz on May 1, 2010 16:18:05 GMT -9
Man! wonderful! Is it going to be glued on a base? If so, maybe the legs should have a "flat" end, jus to give the superglue more "surface" to grab... and the knees too if they will touch the ground.
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Post by Dagger on May 1, 2010 17:15:34 GMT -9
Wow... that looks amazing... It's really hard to believe that is 2.5D. The curved back carapace especially... great idea.
Claws/Talons - cool...
Front legs - I'd be careful trying to make them bigger, you don't want to block the view of the body too much... and they might get in the way of the claws/talons... What if - you give the back carapace more of a V shape and make the rear legs larger than the front legs? Or maybe whoever is putting it together can go either way... I dunno, you're the expert...
Head - I'd have to see it next to some 15mm figs to make that call... I do like it though...
Weapons - I love how you incorporated them with the arms... the weapons themselves look a little too big though...
I really, really like the direction you're going though...
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Post by squirmydad on May 1, 2010 19:37:57 GMT -9
Thanks for the feedback.
I think I will stick with the legs as is. I have a more defense style critter to make, and will use the larger legs for something like that. The four legged stuff is suppose to be the moderately fast movers, the two legged stuff is the fast movers, and the slitherer stuff is the slow, mostly defensive stuff, where giant front carapace style shields would be better used.
I do like the idea of thinning up the weapon, and will make one more alternate weapon for this figure, and cluster launcher of some sort.
I'll make the hands into long talons for a limited close combat weapons.
I think I will be moving some of the development over to my hybrid army page ,and just focus on the smaller scale versions here, once I actually start on the smaller versions. I think once I hammer out the large designs ,then I can produce the smaller scale variant.
I may end up with more than the suggested figure mix, just so we can have the troop variety and weapon variety to match the current model range, but I'm betting you don't mind.
Oh, and I do thing having little glue tabs on the feet would be good.
I am really having fun developing these designs again! JIM
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Post by umungus on May 1, 2010 19:56:30 GMT -9
Very Cool Idea!! Would like to play with those thangs... ;D
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Post by brynbrenainn on May 3, 2010 12:26:50 GMT -9
I agree with everyone else. Looking good.
Perhaps you should put the arm/cannon pieces at a slight angle outwards to each other, instead of parallell as they are now... Don't you think it will be a bit more... um... -'Run along, I got you covered!'
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Post by Parduz on May 3, 2010 13:48:09 GMT -9
Oh, and I do thing having little glue tabs on the feet would be good. Just want to say that, using superglue with the Mech Attack figures, it suffice to have a "straight" end (look at the wheels of the vehicles: just chopping a tiny section build enough "flat" paper to stay glued).... so if you feel that the tabs will ruin the look, you have another option.
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Post by squirmydad on May 3, 2010 19:20:49 GMT -9
I'm not going to have any updates for a couple days, I'm building two armies for the Armor grid game, so I can make actual size mock-ups for photo reference. Stay tuned, I have some really nice concept sketches done ,and will be making more mock-ups soon. JIM
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Post by WaffleM on May 5, 2010 8:19:04 GMT -9
WOW!!! I just spent the last few days moving and I come back to these amazing images!!! WOW!!! I'm totally blown away!!!!!!
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Post by Floyd on May 5, 2010 9:36:17 GMT -9
Oh I missed the new images! Cool stuff Jim! This is why I am such an advocate of your 2.5d designs. They rawk! I could see some cool stuff a certain Acrylic Game Piece design company could do for this sort of game!
~F
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Post by squirmydad on May 5, 2010 17:38:16 GMT -9
Well, I'm fully in Armor Grid building. I have everything printed out. I have the figures glued, and will start cutting tomorrow. I'm only going to cut what I need for a small game, and make sure I have 1 of each element built for reference to the Chimera figures I'm designing. Tomorrow I start cutting and assembling. I am hoping to get the two armies built in one evening. I also need to get some spray adhesive for the bases, I'm mounting the base printouts to black foam board. More pics tomorrow. I'll also have a neat new design element added to the CANNONEER figure in this topic, namely crab claws. This will give the figure 8 limbs, and should be sufficient for me to represent a bunch of different types of trooper. From thin claws and huge crushing claws to long slender talons. The new limbs will attach at the shoulder of the current design and go out from the middle of the torso on each side. I'll have it in the next figure revision. JIM
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Post by squirmydad on May 5, 2010 17:41:47 GMT -9
Oh I missed the new images! Cool stuff Jim! This is why I am such an advocate of your 2.5d designs. They rawk! I could see some cool stuff a certain Acrylic Game Piece design company could do for this sort of game! ~F I am totally working on getting that range of acrylic bases on my website. I'm just working out fulfillment with the Boss. I know I'd like to do some custom crated enhancements for print and play gaming, and market them from the Onemonk website, but it's just one thing in a ton of stuff I'm trying to do, too little time, and much procrastination! JIM
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Post by squirmydad on May 9, 2010 19:06:39 GMT -9
Still building stuff. I got a bit busy with other things and couldn't get to them until this weekend ,I'm about half way done. Another couple days and I should have enough for two small armies. Then, I'll continue on my bug designs. I am already getting ideas how to simplify the designs for the smaller 15mm scale, I may not be able to use designs for both scales, so will cherry pick the best designs from the larger stuff. JIM
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Post by squirmydad on May 20, 2010 16:11:24 GMT -9
Just a short update to let you guys know I'm still into this project. I have half the stuff for Mech Assault built, but wanted to do a complete tables worth of stuff. Also I have been putting in lots of hours at work ,so I'm a bit burned out in the evenings, this should taper off as I get caught up with work responsibilities.
I'm still struggling a bit over how I want to redesign the Hybrid guys, make them all one body type with several variations, or totally different body types. I can't make up my mind right now, but I will.
I'll also design some corpse tiles as well, for the big bug stuff. Pics coming as soon as I get everything glued up and based. JIM
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Post by tugunmojo on May 20, 2010 16:56:41 GMT -9
I am so looking forward to what you have planned for Armor Grid. A buddy and I used to talk about the exact same kind of thing when we played OGRE--like 25 years ago! However, neither of us ever got around to designing the chits (yes, I said "chits" cause this was back in the good ol' pre-OGRE Minis days).
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Post by onemonktrey on May 23, 2010 18:20:18 GMT -9
Yeah...someone a long time ago designed unofficial "bug" type counters for OGRE to give the game a "starship troopers" feel. Might have been in a copy of Ares magazine or something like that. Don't know how well it played out - however, I can't wait to see it for Mech Attack!.
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Post by Parduz on May 23, 2010 21:12:40 GMT -9
someone a long time ago designed unofficial "bug" type counters for OGRE to give the game a "starship troopers" feel. Might have been in a copy of Ares magazine or something like that. Don't know how well it played out MAN! I'd LOVE to see them!!! I can't wait to see it for Mech Attack!. Me too (....even if i still have to finish cutting my "base set".... sigh)
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