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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 7, 2012 11:51:09 GMT -9
I've started working on a modular set that could be used as Laketown from The Hobbit. The idea is 3 parts. 1. Docks: piers, ramps, platforms, bridges....the base for the town. 2. Buildings: a number of different sized, Norse styled building. 3. Boats: several large and small boats...again Norse/Viking inspired. Here's a little goofing around I've done on sketchup... laketown001_a by grendels_mother64, on Flickr I dunno how quick this is gonna come, hopefully I'll have time to put this up in dribs and drabs... Shawn
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 7, 2012 12:06:12 GMT -9
I for one would really like to see this come together. I think Laketown is one of those settings that Tolkien described so well, without going into extreme detail, that everyone has a picture of what it should look like.
Norse? Kinda. My picture is Danish/Belgian/Dutch which is close.
Anxious to see your vision flesh out.
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Post by paladin on Mar 7, 2012 12:17:45 GMT -9
Esgaroth on the Long Lake! This has alot of flair from the Sketchup concept alone, @shawn. I would totally appreciate this set. Do you game in Middleearth? What's your motivation? The set would be useful for every Norse Myth or Viking/Celtic inspired gamer ... . You know, I live in the flatlands of Northern Germany - there were in fact such lake- and swamptowns in neolithic and later times, like Danish/Viking Haithabu (around 800 AC). de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HaithabuGreat stuff. I thought more than one time to use Sketchup entirely for roleplay, lots of people do, but it's a processor/RAM killer on my old PC ... .
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 7, 2012 12:20:49 GMT -9
Just wondering, Verminking...
Can you see the pic? Can you click-thru to the Flickr page its on? (this is the first thing I've put up on Flickr, and I'm not really sure how all the privacy settings work...)
Thanks, Shawn
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Post by oldschooldm on Mar 7, 2012 12:26:55 GMT -9
The Flickr page is private - I can't access it.
I'm a big fan of your work and look forward to anything you make here...
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 7, 2012 12:31:40 GMT -9
OK, I think I fixed that. You should be able to look at a bigger version on Flickr now. Shawn Edit: this place is one of the biggest influences...structurally anyway: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfahlbau_Museum_Unteruhldingenonly a little more like these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StavkirkeI saw a clip of Peter Jackson talking "The Hobbit" and he was on the Laketown set. Unfortunately they managed to show practically nothing of the set except a few walls and doorways....but from what you could see it was obvious they were emulating the Stavkirke style.
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Post by paladin on Mar 7, 2012 12:37:01 GMT -9
This looks neat, @shawn. Is there a Dwarf standing on the bridge - waving a tankard!? EDIT: ah, thanks for the links&hints, @shawn. Oldest Stavkirke seems to be Anglo-Saxon, same age as Viking Haithabu: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensted_ChurchThe elaborated, multi-level style of the high-medieval Stavkirkes is an emulation of the bigger, fancier stone churches of Europe. I always imagined Middleearth as a NorseDarkAge/ByzantineMedieval-crossover, so the style mix will work for me ... .
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 7, 2012 12:40:35 GMT -9
No, I was goofing around with texturing in Sketchup, so I stole a pic of a viking figure (gameforge...?) Made a little virtual paper fig for scale.
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Post by paladin on Mar 7, 2012 12:59:05 GMT -9
No, I was goofing around with texturing in Sketchup, so I stole a pic of a viking figure (gameforge...?) Made a little virtual paper fig for scale. Vikings have beards, so ... a Dwarf is not far from that! Actually, there were some Dwarves in Esgaroth ;D. I have seen people gaming entirely in Sketchup with self-made screen projectors and laptop connection and such ... .
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 7, 2012 14:18:44 GMT -9
This is going to be a very interesting project. The Norse perspective works, but I just don't associate Norse and Guild Halls ...
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Post by kiladecus on Mar 7, 2012 14:26:20 GMT -9
Excellent work!
I could also see mixing in a little bit of Dave Graffam's models as well.
I love it!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2012 14:39:26 GMT -9
Very, very promising at this stage!!!
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Post by afet on Mar 14, 2012 4:37:35 GMT -9
This is an exciting project. I assume you've checked out Alan Lee's depictions of Laketown? I'm guessing, based on the set of LOTR, that Peter Jackson will lean heavily on Alan Lee's visual imagining. fantasy.mrugala.net/Alan%20Lee%20-%20The%20Hobbit/
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 14, 2012 10:44:31 GMT -9
Some small boats to start. 3 versions of the faering, a small viking style boat. (Peter Jackson copied this style for the Elven canoes in LOTR) They're all just slightly bigger than 1" wide in the bottom of the hull, so they'll fit a 1" based figure. I've done a couple of tests...they go together OK....I'll put up some pics in a bit. Hope you like, GM64
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 14, 2012 11:06:35 GMT -9
Those are some very nice little boats. They look like they will be very useful and easy to put together.
Thanks
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 14, 2012 11:32:15 GMT -9
Here's the shot of PJ on the Laketown set from The Hobbit. There's no other images out there yet, but from the details it looks pretty vikingish.... Anyway, my plan is for something like that. And something like this... From the wikipedia Esgaroth page..... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EsgarothWorking on it..... GM64
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Post by Rhannon on Mar 14, 2012 12:01:13 GMT -9
how many hundreds of buildings?
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 14, 2012 14:16:25 GMT -9
I'll just sit here and revise my vision of Laketown. That little piece in there about Nordic influence on language, etc. also lends credence that my vision was incorrect.
I'd sure like to see Tolkien's sketch that the drawing refers to. He was an excellent writer, but I'd like to see his skills at sketching.
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 14, 2012 14:47:19 GMT -9
Here's Tolkien's own sketch/watercolour. And here's that 1970's animated TV show's version It's a place I'd like to hang out at.....
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 14, 2012 16:21:18 GMT -9
I'd say that from Tolkien's sketch (I'd call that more than a sketch) that Kiladecus is right about Graffam buildings fitting in, but, my gosh, that place would be huge.
I wonder if his sketch is LOTR timeframe, Hobbit timeframe or 'at the height of its wealth' timeframe.
You've certainly done a lot of research on this. Thanks.
EDIT -- Different interpretations between the pics, but the Castellum in the first pic actually looks like a warehouse or customs house to me in Tolkien's, and not at all in the last. Only the last shows any kind of real defense at the bridge. Maybe it's because of the world we live in, but I am surprised there aren't more defenses at the bridge and canals.
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Post by paladin on Mar 14, 2012 18:48:17 GMT -9
Nice work, @shawn. Thanks alot for those beautiful 'Viking' Boats. I have fetched my 'Pictures of J.R.R. Tolkien'-book and read, that the above 'sketch' is a colored version of the original B/W-inked illustration Tolkien made for the 'Hobbit' and printed therein 1937. As all of Tolkien's ink drawings for the 'Hobbit' are depicting actual scenes of the book, I conclude (razorsharp ;D), that the above sketch is indeed showing Esgaroth at the time of Bilbo's adventure. You can clearly see very complex and high buildings in the distance - tower-like constructions and even Stavkirke-like multi-story buildings. Karen Wynn Fonstad analyses in her famous Middleearth-Atlas the sketch and gives the following data: Esgaroth on the Long Lake Area: about 400 x 600 feet Population: about 400 Buildings: wooden, two-story, very densely built, very long or large, about 50, largest buildings in the 'marketplace' center and on the frontside depicted in the sketch, with the large building at the corner identified by Fonstad as the 'Town Hall' (with the 'Great Hall/House' standing in the center of town). The 'Swan Boats' seem very Elvish to me - also the high hats/helmets of the rowing men - woodelves?
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Post by paladin on Mar 15, 2012 10:01:46 GMT -9
Painted this (fast) concept for the Bridge/Canal Building on the frontside of Tolkien's sketch. There is another sketch titled 'The Death of Smaug' from Tolkien's original 'Hobbit' scripts, where he scribbled the large Totem-type columns/spikes on top of the building's roof endings. I have tried to maintain the scale (150 x 40 feet) as indicated by Miss Fonstad. I interpret Tolkien's sketch as if there is a second-story building constructed onto and into one half of the main building's roof: I have to reread the chapters about Laketown in the 'Hobbit', so I cannot remember, if some or all of the buildings were painted. I gave my Bridge Building some (blueish and greenish) paint for fun. Vermin King, there are some lines in the 'Hobbit' mentioning the feeling of overall safety and peace for some time. Children disbelieving the existence of dragons in the Withered Heath/the Lonely Mountain, or people referring to distant and far-off enemies (Orks, Goblins and Eastlings). They feel safe in Laketown - trading with men, dwarves and elves. So maybe, they never felt the necessity to build more protective structures ... . EDIT: the Main Bridge to Esgaroth (about 10 feet wide) was meant to be destructible very quickly - as the Men of Esgaroth did, when Smaug approached (he could not land in the water - would have harmed him as a Fire Creature like a Balrog ... - and landing on the roofs of the village-town? Maybe, the roof columns had more than a decorative purpose ... .)
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 21, 2012 17:03:42 GMT -9
Here's a few photos of some paper tests. LT_test01LT_test02 LT_test03Working out the fitting and starting to texture. The big ship (a knarr) still has a bit of work to go. I printed out a colour version just because I don't trust my monitor vs my printer. Hope to put some of the finished set up soon. GM64 (the figs are Dryw's and 1Monk's (thanks)....not exactly how I picture the men of Laketown...maybe they'll come later)
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Post by goas77 on Mar 21, 2012 17:46:43 GMT -9
Looks great, I made the boat is finished in the picture and is very good, the boat is in the process looks set to have a good finish, follow the good work. I look forward to further progress. Greetings.
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 21, 2012 18:29:33 GMT -9
yep, the knar rocks! Not sure about the woven look below the boardwalk, but hey, it is your model, suit yourself!
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Mar 21, 2012 19:04:54 GMT -9
Yeah, its suppose to be crossed beams. I'm trying to make it simple and easy to put together...plus it need some solid support at least an inch or so down from the top or it won't hold up very well. The idea was to have the space filled in at least fairly realistically. Open beams there would be a heck of a lot more work....especially considering you'd be making quite a few of them....
Got any other ideas that might work....? Maybe a single angled beam with a dark background....?
GM64
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 21, 2012 19:49:26 GMT -9
maybe have it more like the Tolkien pic with rows of horizontal beams behind the uprights. If you gave them a triangular cross-section, it would be very sturdy.
the crossbeam would work if it were just an X with a horizontal beam running directly below it.
Not sure
I really like the upper and lower deck set-up with the connecting ramp. The weathered grey color you are using looks exactly right.
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 22, 2012 4:29:44 GMT -9
Maybe something like this would give you the thickness you want and keep the "rustic" feel. Attachments:
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Post by kiladecus on Mar 22, 2012 5:55:40 GMT -9
Well, even square beams can help support it. The BEST structure of this kind I have EVER seen was from FINGER AND TOE. He had a set of walkways that were part of one of his earlier sets (MULTI-GUN, maybe), and it folded the legs into "V" shapes, rather than "L" shapes. The icing on the cake was that the top of the walkway folded itself onto the legs again. (It is VERY hard to describe, but a wonderful design). When I first built it, I showed my wife, I said, "See this paper bridge." I picked up a huge apple. She expressed that it would crush the paper... (knowing it had "Smoosh Assurance," I knew I had nothing to fear). I put the apple on the center of the structure. It HELD! VERY nice design. I will try to find the link for the set. I believe it was a dollar, so you can buy it, and see if it will work well for your set. I hope it helps! (BTW, I am NOT affiliated with Finger and Toe models. This was NOT an advertisement for Glenn Williams or his company. Remember, to stop by the gift shop and pick up your F&T models on your way out).
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Post by hackbarth on Mar 23, 2012 4:48:07 GMT -9
I LIKED the crossed beans. It gives a Tolkien-by-Peter-Jackson felling to it.
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