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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 13:58:29 GMT -9
Hontaurs => Hoplites + Centaurs (new species? First things first - the idea was borrowed from Kiladecus. Couple weeks ago he made cut and paste mock-up using figurines from Ancient Warriors-Hoplites and Unicorns PERMES sets (vide "hontaur" figurine with sword and white horse-body visible in background) and suggested whole set of such creatures (although with "classic" tittle Centaurs)... Not the worst idea... quite interesting in fact! So I decided to put it into test and made full quality 2-sided figurine based on this idea. You can see result on preview above -- foreground bay/brown horse Hontaur with spear. --- Actually during test work some problems arises tho. There is no easy way how to "connect" hoplite Hyman's and horse bodies, or in other words how to "attach" soldiers body to horse's (of course without redrawing both figurines!). Solution - use of shields and cloaks (vide attached sample) or some special armor or wide belts with attached chainmal etc...
OK, it's not that quality as brand new drawing perhaps but still not that bad IMHO... (however in some case it could be even easier/faster to redraw from scratch but I really like the idea of "panzer/hoplite-style centaurs" Then some additional items/gadgets might be added -- banners, big javelin quivers plus housing, big panache/crests etc...
=>>In overall might result with a lot of quite dynamic and attractive figurines!--- Due to overhead caused by other projects "Hontaurs" idea was postponed for a while... but recently it recalled so I decided to share with you. Well, although I'm not 100% convinced to this project however I somehow agree with Kil and sense some degree of potential here... hmm?!? So... would these "Hontaurs" (or some other name would be more appropriate instead ?) be valuable and attractive for gamers/users??? =>> What's your opinion?PS. Please notice: I'm NOT considering (at the moment at least) brand-new classic centaur figurines but "assembled" and revamped with some additional, unique/specific elements/weapons and of course new colors/textures/accessories.
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 27, 2012 17:05:40 GMT -9
That's a good looking piece. How about calling them "Armored Centaurs" or "Centaur Heavys."
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 28, 2012 13:48:56 GMT -9
Of course, "centaurs" actually seems to mean "bull piercers" so it is hard to decide what part of the name to keep and combine. I would suggest that "Hoplitaurs" gives people a good idea of what they are buying.
And they are cool looking. But I don't buy 2d figs so I'm not your target market.
Also the name "centaurs" suggests that they are the traditional enemies of Minotaurs. That could make an epic game.
BTW I've always wanted to see a centaur in full plate. Just putting that out there.
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Post by stevelortz on Sept 28, 2012 15:02:03 GMT -9
I think I'd call them "Heavy Centaurs" or "Heavy-Armored Centaurs". If a centaur had plate armor, I would call it an "Extra-Heavy Centaur.
I think I would use SOME heavy centaurs, but I think most of my centaurs would be light archers - sagitarii.
I have already built some minotaur companies, so some centaur enemy/allied companies would work very well with them in games!
I also have a company of elf maidens mounted on unicorns!
Have fun! Steve
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 16:13:23 GMT -9
yeah - bunch of good suggestions - thank you all! @ squirmydadI like "Armored Centaurs" name plus: BTW I've always wanted to see a centaur in full plate. Just putting that out there. So something for you both: Heavy Armored Centaur quick sketch! And its really HEAVY-armored one as both horse and human-body parts are armored (well, de facto its roughly stylized late medieval Italian/Milanese-like mounted knight / condotier:). I did also quick basic color-test -- just for fun but I think that after some corrections/with more details, textures and light effects etc. it could be quite interesting project and IMHO much better/appealing then previous one with hoplite warrior perhaps? @ stevelortsActually adding some archers shouldn't be problem... I'll try to submit here some more sketches perhaps (but first I have to finish Templar Crossbowmen...)
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 28, 2012 16:36:03 GMT -9
I like the Heavy Armoured Centaur ;D I wonder though, I think armour had wide "skirts" (kilts?) to allow the legs to move. Since the centaur's legs are the horse legs, I wonder if it should be narrower around the human waist?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 17:29:57 GMT -9
I like the Heavy Armoured Centaur ;D I wonder though, I think armour had wide "skirts" (kilts?) to allow the legs to move. Since the centaur's legs are the horse legs, I wonder if it should be narrower around the human waist? Hmm... right! This Centaur horseman looks kinda... pregnant?... or some snake bites him and he's swollen? OR ...what do you know about centaurs "chic" and style... perhaps it's top-notch premium designers outfit!!! But seriously LOL... that's usual problem with quick projects/sketches... could be easily corrected in (if) next step - THANKS! OK - below something I've mentioned in previous post (kinda Just-In-Time sketching process;) - Centaur Archer sketch for stevelortz... To be honest shield idea/shape is taken from Wild West/Indians and helmet - from Greek/Spartans - but they IMO fit together... or not? There might be various versions - he can point/fire ahead and up. Then could be equipped (as he is rather light "cavalry) with javelins or even... SLING??? -- you know -- left hand forward straight and parallel to ground, torso deflected, sling in right strightened hand... Err... I'm afraid that it could be easier to sketch then describe
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2012 18:31:23 GMT -9
Next one -- Centaur slinger In fact it's rather "multitasking / multiweapon" one:) One obvious thing to correct - he might be reversed/turned so main weapon (axe, sling, spear) would be held in right hand. There is also another one possibility: sword / axe in right hand and left hand closer to body - with shield or second weapon (two-wielded centaur) Or he could be MAGE (does it sounds ok Centaur Mage?) equipped with ancient staff or wand... Add to this picture some streaming on wind samurai-like banner and it could be quite dynamic figurine... Then... horse could be changed - just to avoid "army of clones" and... Well, what kind of characters/figurines else would be needed? Perhaps WarChief and MUSICIAN (trumpeter or drummer or flute perhaps?) and standardbearer? VOILA... we almost designed brand new set line-up!
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 28, 2012 18:40:45 GMT -9
I like the greek armors better than the Milanese. Warchief, standard bearer, and trumpeter would round out this line nicely.
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 3, 2012 5:01:04 GMT -9
I have a good idea once in a while. These look AMAZING! (Maybe you can do one of the archers with pegasus wings. It could be air support)!
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 3, 2012 5:24:48 GMT -9
I had a (belated) thought the other day. Of course decoration is cultural and there is no reason centaurs wouldn't use feathers in much the same way that Amerindians do, but by the time you get to bronze helmets and axe blades you have probably ditched your hide sheilds. You could keep the size/shape of the shield if you like, but in my opinion the Greek stuff "feels" more right. Maybe you could have "Greekish" centaurs and "barbarian" cousins who are more plains Amerind looking. Also what if the centaurs looked more like a Mongol hord?
Just random musings as I procrastinate on grocery shopping.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 5:52:37 GMT -9
Maybe you can do one of the archers with pegasus wings. It could be air support! LOL! WINGED CENTAURS... like the idea (well it's all about fun, right?) but... horses, warriors and wings... wouldn't it be "too many eggs in the pot" (or whatever they say it in English) However adding wings couldn't be a big deal so who knows (it might be kinda bonus "special force" figurine)... Maybe you could have "Greekish" centaurs and "barbarian" cousins who are more plains Amerind looking. Also what if the centaurs looked more like a Mongol horde? Well - first attempt (vide Kiladecus mock-up and mine Hontaurs on preview) was stricte "Greek-ish" and sketches are... just sketches. Actually I like the idea with 2 Centaur tribes (or factions?) and the Mongol/Hun horde lookalike is an excellent idea!!! >>>I'm finishing Warbeasts set right now but afterwards I'll try to submit some "hordes" centaur sketch.
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Post by stevelortz on Oct 3, 2012 17:33:43 GMT -9
I REALLY like the light centaur archer sketches! I've always imagined centaurs as resembling Scythian horse archers, because it may well have been that the early Greeks' original encounters with the Scythians were what gave rise to the legend of centaurs, much as the Native Americans didn't know what to make of Spaniards mounted on horses.
Likewise, I also like the Native American style centaurs and the Renaissance plate centaur.
I can picture a variety of centaur cultures, as well as a variety of armor weights for different companies to perform different functions on the field of battle: heavy shock, general medium cavalry duties and light mobile fire power.
I can feature aerial combat between a company of Valkyries and a company of winged-centaur archers!
Thank you VERY MUCH, mesper!
Have fun! Steve
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Post by stevelortz on Oct 3, 2012 17:50:22 GMT -9
The next thing you'll need to do is come up with some Polish Winged Hussar centaurs ;D
Have fun, Steve
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 15:49:24 GMT -9
The next thing you'll need to do is come up with some Polish Winged Hussar centaurs Here you go... Couldn't resist some quick/draft coloring - just to "catch the idea" so do not judge/rant too much, please?! (and of course these linear-shadow are supposed to be deleted /replaced with "realistic shadows" in fact - just to uncover some "behind the scene" techniques/) Although actually this one is kinda MASSIVE mock-up!!! So, what we have here is Greek Hoplite (crest and shield), Polish Winged Hussar (spine-wings), Medieval Knight (helmet/barbuta, armor and lance - note that Polish Winged Hussars lances was significantly longer min. 7m long!!! and with different spearhead), horse's housing (panther/lion skin) is stylized for Macedonian Hetairoi and Winged Hussars (wolf/tiger/wolf/wildcat skin)... Kinda "big mess" collage... ;D Anyway... IMHO figure looks both balanced and dynamic... Well, still major question is do YOU, as player/modeler like it and find it useful? Ahhh... I could add some "coat" - you know, big/bright color one, kinda one lying on horse-back vide "Milanese/Medieval" Centaur preview OR flying (even better?) on the wind... BUT instead of wildcat skin, so there might be 2 version. OK - any other ideas (besides musicians and standardbearer - which are already "under construction") PS.BTW if you feel that horse body is too small vs human's... -well actually it looks way different in B-side view. This A-side impression is mostly due to shield (too big and specific shape), but anyway it could be easily "straightened/corrected" in final version.--------------- EDITThere is kinda "error " which obviously could be corrected in final version (30mm version only!) -- crest/helmet-feathers should be smaller/cutted - so when black outline will be added it will not contact spine-wings and thus there will be no "closed area" between arm and crest-wings outline. This is kinda often "mistake" which is not so obvious/visible while designing and which is usually corrected in next steps..
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Post by stevelortz on Oct 5, 2012 11:41:25 GMT -9
I love to see your sketchwork! It reminds me of lloking at the sketches of old masters, like Da Vinci or Rembrant! I wish I could sketch as well as you do!
I wouldn't particularly want a big shield. A small one would do.
As for musicians, standard bearers, etc., I think we need some heralds, too ;D
They played a much more extensive role in ancient and medieval battles than most gamers realize. One of my fantasy orc generals, Ugaruk the BugBear, had a herald named Treek. Ugaruk always made Treek dress in the fanciest armor so that enemy archers would shoot at the herald, and not at the real general!
Thanks again!
Have fun! Steve
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