Well, I am gearing up for my first WARMANCER BATTLE ARENA expansion set ("booster"). What better way to introduce the "Bosses" than to share the inked version of the Mage King, himself, EMIL RUNEQUIST!
"You mean that HE is going to be a playable character?"
"Why doesn't he have any weapons, staff or Mage Orbs?""
He's EMIL RUNEQUIST! They are beneath him.
"Hey, kiladecus, what's up with his right arm?"
He's waiving it like someone using the Jedi Mind Trick... or more to the point, flooding the ENTIRE area so he can unleash the !
"WOW! This expansion is going to be AWESOME!!"
I know, right! ;D
(Perhaps if people commented on my thread, I wouldn't have to do it for you).
Post by Brave Adventures on Mar 21, 2013 16:47:06 GMT -9
Not getting a lot of feedback on this set... I guess it is lack of interest?
Hey Kil, sorry I didn't comment before. I have been really busy with work since January so I haven't had time to do much more than lurk the forums until recently.
The scale of your projects is getting impressive! The spell cards and pieces look great!
The price seems a little high though for a print and play game. Similar games like Katana Schoolgirls by Okumarts are only $5.
$15 seems too expensive. Or $8.50 if you want the game plus tiles? That seems a little confusing or misleading. It doesn't make sense to pay $7 more to not have certain pieces. Do you see what I mean? Perhaps it would be better to just have the one price that includes the tiles?
Sorry I don't have more exciting things to comment about, CBL.
BRAVE ADVENTURES: I explained this before, in a different thread, so you might not had seen it.
Rhannon asked the same question, and I tried to explain this, but I thought I could hear his head shaking from Italy.
In order to do a set as a bundled package, you need to have both sets out there. I am REALLY trying to push the bundled pack (not only to support DramaScape), but because the map is really AWESOME and kind of key to the game.
I don't like the term, "misleading." I have always been above board with everything I say and do (hence the title Nik gave me).
I fear if my friends think I am being deceptive, then other people think worse of me, so I will change it.
As far as pricing goes, everyone sets their own prices. Do I think OkumArts has a good product, HECK YEAH! Do I think his game is worth more than $5.00, OF COURSE.
My eyes have been opened working with other companies. I see that Darkmook had his "Teenage Investigators" release for $3.00 (g/t). I purchased it for the figures only. I basically paid $3 for 5 figures. He had all of cards and rules expansions in the set. Was I upset by the price? HECK NO! I LOVE his work, and I thought it was freaking brilliant! Would I have paid more for it? A little... but when I purchase something, I either REALLY want it, or I support my friends. In this case, BOTH apply.
I have seen companies sell a set of figures for $10. There is once company that has TENTS for sale for $10!! Sure, they boast XX figures, but what they fail to mention is there are literally 3 pages of the EXACT same figure. No flips, no recolors... I don't want to say more, because I don't want people to think I am "bashing" anyone. I don't do that.
As far as my price, I will continue selling games at that price. As far as the game without the map goes, if I sell the bundled version for $7.50 and the map for the bundled price (of $.75), that is $8.25. If I sell the game WITHOUT the map for $7.50, then people will say, "I save 25 cents if I buy the bundled set." Where is the value in that?
If people see the game as $14.99 OR you get the game AND the map for $8.25, then I want people to say, "By Grapthar's Hammer, what a savings!" (I love using that quote).
SO I hope I didn't come off as "preachy" or sounding like I "doth protest too much." I am just saying that if other companies can charge $4, 5, even $8 for figures, why are SO many of us as publishers selling our stuff for $2.50 a set?
I feel if the product is good, and the quality is there (I feel overall my Warmancers game has the most "professional" quality of anything I have released thus far), then we should be able to charge a better, more-fitting price.
The horse is still mooing, so I will kick it a bit more...
Paper has advantages that "traditional" boardgames don't (and vice versa, naturally). I spent over $80 for the WOW board game (it had lots of figures (some rather poor sculpts in my opinion) and the game was "ok" at best.
My game is 1/10 the price, but I find it VERY entertaining... Then again, I designed it for me... I like it, so it was a good investment. I am going to release a new "booster" with new spells, new abilities and a "limited edition" figure. I feel this will increase the excitement level of the game, and offer MORE options. (This may be out today).
I enjoy what I do. I know that time is money, and I know that what I invest into something is more than what I will get in return. I know this going into each project, and I obviously feel the risk is worth it.
Now, BA, we are friends and I REALLY hope this doesn't sound like me "yelling" (especially with the capital letters everywhere... I use those to stress certain words since it is so difficult to format the posts with this machine). I really am not. I am not really upset, and I am not mad. ;D ...see?
I really am glad that you shared your thoughts, and I will re-evaluate everything you have said. I just hope that I was able to explain a little as to the decisions I have made.
Thank you for your input. It didn't go unnoticed.
Last Edit: Mar 22, 2013 0:42:40 GMT -9 by kiladecus
Game Designer, BETA Tester, Model Designer, Figure Designer... HEY! It's what I do...
Yes, Dave, my dear friend. my head is still shaking now. ;D
I am really happy. We Italians love a lot ( too much ) these brainy discussions . ;D ;D ;D
It is one of our many flaws ( every word, every comma, everything is itself covered by other debates ) ;D ;D ;D
you ask "Where is the value in that?"
The real value is the small less difference in price and a more new product (tiles).
I agree with you when you say that the price decided by others is not to evaluate. I also buy the products of David and Adam ( and some others, but not all. In fact very few ) at prices much higher. They actually worth much more, but this is the value that I give the product, which does not always coincide with its price.
When the opposite happens, ie the value that I give is much less than the cost of the product, I don't do polemics. Just don't buy that product.
I think the price is objective, and it is not debatable, while the value is subjective, and this will give us.
n this case we are talking only about the price. And your reasoning is correct. Imho it is logically correct but ... I do not know. Let's say that it leads to strange consequences of thought. Imho.
You want to push Dramascape product. Ok. But or the real value of your product is the same with the original price ( not bundled ), or you can also write $ 100 at this point.
Ok I lost myself. now. ;D ;D ;D
So thank you for the nice conversation. Why it is important to talk to. Do not care much about what.
PS: Dave, sooner or later you and I need to talk about your other new products. I am really happy to see your new projects and important collaborations.
I'm a little less happy about other respects. And you already know what they are.
Do you prefer a chat with all your friends here, or just a chat with only one friend somewhere else?
Post by Brave Adventures on Mar 22, 2013 4:42:30 GMT -9
Don't worry, I only meant to be constructive not accusatory or anything. I think your set looks great. I just wanted to point out it was a bit pricey (in my humble opinion) and that charging double to not have something was a little backwards. It is a little like a store saying a car costs $10,000 normally, or only $5000 if you want a free set of golf clubs with it. I didn't think you were being intentionally misleading. I thought maybe it was just a mistake or something.
I understand your explanation though. It is too bad RPGNow doesn't let you sell only a bundle without also listing the original product separately.
I am always up for a good conversation, anywhere with only my BEST friends. ;D
Brave Adventures, I know... Had I been on the opposite side of the table, I'd be scratching my head, too.
Wait until I add MORE products and the price drops again... Soon I will be paying people to take my stuff!!
I am sure this will all come out in the end...
In the mean time, thanks for taking the time to read these threads and post. It does mean a LOT to get feedback.
Thanks again! ;D
OK, Dave, then since you and I are best friends we can start with our pleasant and relaxing chat.
I start by saying that this is not "The Truth", it is just my personal view. It is founded on my personal taste, my personal needs, they are subjective questions, and how I manage to be objective. It may not be a speech objective in an absolute sense, then.
I'm just saying, as you would say. ;D
Now I bought all gray matter games products, including the last ( and those by Dark Skull Studios ). And you know that I don't love much anthropomorphized animals.
So, why? Simply because they are your products and this is the only way I have to support a my dear friend.
the drawings are very similar, so I suppose that the artist can be the same. But I'm not sure about this.
A great artist and illustrator. Undoubtedly. Not necessarily a really good paper figures' artist. Imho.
It is not only a matter of front art and back art. But it is also this question.
There are many commercial products and many free sets that have, or rather that they haven't, this characteristic.
Paizo products ( paper minis and pathfinder pawns ) are mirrored. But they are born so. As paper figures that, for their use as rpg accessories, do not need back art. I'm not happy but this is. The beautiful old Bhoritz's sets. They are free ( and the author already generously shares with others products made for his personal needs. ) and Bhoritz is primarily an RPG gamer. He doesn't need backs. ... And other examples ... But I consider them all specific cases with specific needs and motivations.
For me they aren't a new offers' direction, a new way ( I would consider this case like a very serious involution ).
A few years ago, Jim Hartman, aka Onemonk ( Ok Jim is primarily a wargamer, so he understands and he needs "front and back" ), established a parameter for all. He, with time, has improved his skills and the great quality of his offer.
today I, as a buyer (and collector and player, or better non-player due to lack of time available ), I think that the level imposed by Jim as layout, quality, options (including front and back) ... is the minimum level required for a commercial product ( a priced product ).
I speak sbout "the minimum level" but in fact very few paper minis' authors equal it, and no one surpasses it. Imho.
Do I admit exceptions? Absolutely yes. Specific products, specific reasons, specific needs, specific artistic quality ( that makes me postpone my overview ).
This is not a criticism about a single product, and is certainly not a criticism for you, my friend. Nor is it a criticism (even those I don't like them very much ) to a whole range of products ( figures without backs ) ... If someone don't like them, if the purchaser believes that their price is not commensurate with their value ... just don't buy them.
but I like to share with you that my doubts, perplexities and eventually fear.
Not about a specific product ( good and beautiful ). But on a possible new direction.
Great illustrators are not necessarily great paper minis authors. If ywe just hang a beautiful illustration, resize it, duplicate it, to make a paper figure. Then the internet is full of beautiful illustrations. We no longer need rpofessional and passionate paper figures' authors who study perspective, dimensions, front and back ...
We all can do our figures alone, we all become paper figures authors.
But, imho, in this case the image can also be a high artistic quality one, but the paper figure will not be, as a whole, a high quality product. Indeed.
The other aspect is the opportunism. The majority of these images are drawn to illustrate rules, rpg ... not as original paper figures ... but there is a chance ... why not?
These are my concerns, Dave.
How much time do you take to study, draw, paint, a new paper figure? David O., Adam, Labrat, Permes, Madmike, Pasiphilo ... Dramascape ( always better these figs )?
it's all, Dave. ;D
PS: Torn and DSS sets cost more than their overall value as paper figures. Imho. ;D ;D ;D
Now see, everyone THAT is the exact input publishers need!!
I LOVE that you can tell me EXACTLY what you think and we are such good friends that I know you are speaking the truth, and sharing your feelings.
Many of the issues you mentioned are spot-on. I can't argue with your logic and feelings. As a matter of fact, I can stand behind almost every statement you said.
As far as the "artist" versus the "paper miniature designer" you are right on the money. These are things that I did for other companies, and they feature INCREDIBLE art from very talents artist... not me. These don't have backs on them... but I have some news for a future date, but can't divulge any information at this point.
There is one thing that you said, though, that DOES concern me. I am hoping that it was just a break-down in communication, but your closing statement does concern me a LOT!
If I understand you, and I hope I am wrong, but I think you are saying that my miniatures are low-quality because I should spend more time on them, and I do them too quickly.
I can honestly say the when I spend 20 minutes or three days, the final results are the same. I can do the Chimeric Beast or the Pet Drake, and at the end of the day, "they are what they are."
I DO appreciate the support you have shown me over the last 9 months. My fear is that you think I am offering a sub-standard product. Admittedly, I was looking over some of my earlier works, and I feel that my work has improved.
I am not as talented as OkumArts, Darkmook, Mesper or any of the other publishers out there. I don't compare myself to them, because I feel we are all on other levels, and I know my place.
On the other hand, I see myself as a game designer, first and foremost. I started doing figures only to be able to offer my games. I have two games out there currently, and have THREE more on the shelf. I also know that as I go back to revisit previously released games and sets, that they will see a more professional (for lack of a better word) feel and layout spelled out in a more logical format.
It is EXACTLY the people that "care" enough to be honest and offer input that is useful. That is why I hate when people say, "Nice work." It is like when my wife and I watch those "talent/ singing" shows that we Americans love... When the judges/ coaches say, "That was WONDERFUL," that doesn't really help the artist/singers. OTOH, they don't say, "You suck... give up." They may say, "It wasn't your best performance... Try this next time..."
SO, I am thinking that you are telling me that I need to invest more time on my figures. I have been toying with the idea of switching to computer generated characters, and even made up a Wish List of the models I want to buy. On one hand, I know I can do a LOT more with my sets, but on the other hand, it is the exact opposite of what I take pride in... my hand-drawn/ hand-colored figures.
My original CAMEL FAAV out-sold the MANTIS/CRICKET 2:1. The original Camel was hand-drawn. I drew the Mantis on the computer, and colored it on the computer. I think that says something. I could be wrong.
Rhannon: Thank you SO much for your feedback. I welcome ALL input (as long as it is "helpful" and not just criticizing (which Cowboyland, Parduz NOR Rhannon EVER have... I use them as examples because they offer the most critical and helpful feedback).
In closing, the "back-less" issue is a good one, and this is something that *may* be addressed in time. I will keep you posted on these.
Game Designer, BETA Tester, Model Designer, Figure Designer... HEY! It's what I do...
the problem is caused by my lack of knowledge of the english language. As you know. So, you've done well. When I write something that is not clear, you ask about it.
I did not use a single word above about Dave's figures.
I like them, and you know it.
Sometimes you and I talk about them elsewhere. And if there is something to say, we say it. But I never talked about the low quality of your products. There is no low quality in your works. And then we do not need to compare different authors.Each author has his own hand. His own characteristics ...
I can't compare the Adam's works, because his figures have oversized parts ( as well as metal miniatures ) with the David's works ( these have characteristic from of the old dungeons' games, a little cartoonish. Is it the correct word? ) or Permes' sets ... his figures have perfect human proportions, because he, in origin, is a paper soldiers' designer. ... Or Labrat ( Perfect paper minis, imho. For me they are the natural evolution, by the hand of another artist, of the Jim's works ) ...
Can I say that the Dramascape's paper minis are ugly because they are CG figures? Absolutely not. The latest are even more beautiful than the previous ones.
Each author has his own style, his characteristics and preferences.
You follow your own style and preferences, without compare. This is the best way.
I have never spoken of your low quality, Dave. If I thought that I would have said just to you. And not here. And I have never said this to you.
I said that a very good illustration is not necessarily also an excellent paper figure. A great illustrator is not necessarily an excellent paper figures' author.
And that my comment refers specifically to the DSS products and the Torn Armor set ( it is true that this is published by GMG, but you are the publisher, not the artist in this case
Add one more piece. Always without criticism.
The illustrations can also be a little better than yours. but your figures are certainly much better. So many "much" that I can not say a number.
My reference to hurry ( always referred to the two specific products mentioned above ) and opportunism means they have used existing illustrations and turned them (or made to turn to you, but the choice is theirs) in paper figures.
It doesn't concern your products' quality, real GMG products or you.
Not sure. I don't remember saying I bought a game for the miniatures. I said before that I started designing figures so I could release my games...
Unless you mean I purchased Darkmook's Meddling Teenage Investigators. I DID buy those for the figures... Not that I am not interested in his game, I am just not big on zombies... my mystery investigators... that is something TOTALLY different.
(Plus it's Darkmook, and I LOVE his stuff).
Game Designer, BETA Tester, Model Designer, Figure Designer... HEY! It's what I do...
Wow!!! Thank you Kil !!! This is a great Ant !! I love it!! ;D, and that biomancer is awesome. I got several tree ants designed for a future set but for now, i got no time to do it, I can not even finish the set of elves
Thanks, CBL. When it comes to noses, I like to pick the pointy ones! (Had to be said).
I am still trying to decide what to do to round out the set. I am doing cards for Warmancers Set Two, but I didn't just want to throw those out there. If I do them as a free set, 100 people will just download them because they are free... If I put them with the figures, then it causes some minor issues with the files...
SO, I have elected to offer the cards with some "bonus figures" like the first expansion. There will be a total of at least 4 expansions. Each one will coincide with a Warmancers set of the same number (Expansion One featured the figures from Set One with some bonus figures. This expansion will feature cards for the figures from Set Two, and eventually set Three: Necromancers. Once these three are done, there will be another one. I can say that this one will be a LOT of fun).
Any future Warmancers sets will include the figures and cards for them.
Well, I am dangerously close to getting my SIXTH set of Warmancers out.
Here is a shot of what you get.
* - 18 cards (featuring the figures from WARMANCERS: Battle Wizards Set Two, and the four new Warmancers with this set) *- 2 new Boss Cards (Draksis, the Dracotaur, and Ogg of Ur) *- 4 new Elemental Dragons with Cards (Arctic Tigron, Bengal Tigron, Ebon Drake and the Rattle Drake) *- 4 new Warmancer Figures (Toma the Goblin Dracomancer, Rootring the Dryad Biomancer, Brett Gunn the Half-ling Bard, and Javall the Ant Chaman). *- Counters (Poisoned, Wound Counters and Tangled Counters)
This will most-likely be available later today... I will keep you posted.
cowboyleland: Things muggles don't say: I stayed in tonight and built one and a half dragons.
Feb 14, 2020 19:12:42 GMT -9
squirmydad: People don't eat as much lamb since polyester was invented?
Feb 14, 2020 14:05:20 GMT -9
Cardstock Dane: Why is beef kebab more common han lamb ditto? It's a disgrace!
Feb 14, 2020 13:28:52 GMT -9
cowboyleland: I thought I started a new thread late last night but apparently it glitched. I was asking if anyone had any leads on some female barbarians I could mod onto lion bodies to make D&D style lamia. DOH! I see the thread now.
Feb 12, 2020 14:00:12 GMT -9
Vermin King: Aargh! Computer issues this AM. After fighting with things for 35 minutes, just rebooted and it works fine. Whew!
Feb 10, 2020 6:17:56 GMT -9
gav: seen them was thinking a bit dodgy, that's cleared up. I take it the plastic ones I am seeing are the same.
Feb 9, 2020 8:02:33 GMT -9
squirmydad: Cool, thanks!
Jan 25, 2020 8:47:01 GMT -9
shep: I think, I'll point him towards the Kickstarter with bravesirkevin's designs, once it goes live...
Jan 25, 2020 6:24:04 GMT -9
shep: He basically says that he loves the flat design for being a flat, easy to store design. However, he does not like building cardboard minis, so he's very glad that he can buy these MDF versions.
Jan 25, 2020 6:22:42 GMT -9
squirmydad: Found the video, uhm, I don't speak German but I think he likes them.
Jan 23, 2020 15:03:45 GMT -9
shep: Ah, I see. Good to know.
Jan 23, 2020 0:38:27 GMT -9
squirmydad: They are the official licensee for One Monk minis, they also sell designs from Antohammer and Brave Adventures.
Jan 22, 2020 13:52:08 GMT -9
shep: I found this website (https://flatpackforces.com/collections/fantasy) via a youtube video. They are offering 2D flat MDF-minis, and they have loads of One Monk designs up for sale. I was wondering, if they licensed the minis, or if this is art theft...
Jan 22, 2020 13:23:52 GMT -9
shep: old squirmydad: Editing the first post did the trick. Many thanks...
Jan 18, 2020 14:18:39 GMT -9
squirmydad: Howdy Blods!
Jan 18, 2020 12:52:50 GMT -9
blods: The Face book site mentioned Ebbles models and Genet models which blew me away how dam good they are. Lots of great ideas. cheers Blods
Jan 18, 2020 11:50:56 GMT -9