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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 24, 2014 12:06:54 GMT -9
You have such an eye for things like this! Uh... thanks? Not sure what you mean for having an eye for these things though. I can't wait to see how this develops. There just aren't enough really nice trees out there. Elven tree villages...oh, yeah! Something along the lines of what I was thinking. But at the core I want to try make it possible to put any sort of building on the platforms, just so people can use whatever. Maybe recreate that one town from Dragonlance... name escapes me right now... Solace?
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 25, 2014 12:42:10 GMT -9
When does content expansion start becoming bloat? I just quadrupled the number of roof options in the village set... why? I'unno, I felt like it?
Originally there was supposed to be only weathered thatched. But now I also added weathered thatched with gaps, thatched overgrown with moss and fresh golden thatched.
Originally there was supposed to be 4 flat end caps. I'm currently thinking about adding another set of 4. Etc.
Often, like in the case of the roofs, the addition is pretty trivial. Sometimes though it requires a good bit of work.
In any case, the village content so far:
- roof caps • connector • flat end x8 (blank x3, window x2, door x3) - roofs • 6 inch, 4 inch and 2 inch flat • 45 degree bend (approx 6 inch on one side, 3 inch on the other) • rounded cap roof • all in 4 variants • slated half roofs (for T and X junctions in the building) - fences • 2 inch x2, 3 inch x2, 4 inch x2, 6 inch x1 • 2 inch, 4 inch, 6 inch gates • 3 styles variants of each - fence posts • 6 different heights - bits and bobs • roof-cap-to-house-connector (for T and X junctions in the building)
Planned:
- bits and bobs • house-to-fence-post connectors • fold flat hay stack? • small and large hours add-ons (2 inch, 4 inch, attach to side of building) • small free-standing shed/outhouse/chickencoop • large free-standing shed • chimneys
Is this a reasonable, comprehensive and coherent set?
EDIT: • moving bits for the gates! How could I have forgotten about this?
EDIT 2: Finished some things...
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Post by WackyAnne on Apr 25, 2014 18:01:24 GMT -9
You should check out Dave's fairly recent threads. He was explains how he's splitting up his textures so he can sell three versions of the same build. A single layered quick-&-cheap one, a medieval one with snow & other tweaks, & a steampunk version with snow & other tweaks, IIRC. That allows him (& his fans) to have his layer cakes & eat them, too
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Post by WackyAnne on Apr 25, 2014 18:05:21 GMT -9
Oh, and I like your list of inclusions for the village set, particularly the haystack. Dave Graffam's got hay bales, one monk has other harvest field props, but no one has got a haystack, and that's a great thing to hide in/under
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Post by dungeonmistress on Apr 25, 2014 18:38:39 GMT -9
hasturhasturhastur, I tried to post something earlier, but my internet is acting up on me again. First, let me say that I was paying you a compliment. You do very nice work and have a good eye for realism. Sorry, I wasn't clear about that before. It's been a long time since I have read any DragonLance books, but I think you are correct. Solace sounds right anyway. I am very excited to see what you come up with for the village. Haystack...I think I remember seeing a haystack around somewhere, but I wasn't very impressed by it. I'm sure what you create will be orders of magnitude better.
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 25, 2014 21:30:07 GMT -9
You should check out Dave's fairly recent threads. He was explains how he's splitting up his textures so he can sell three versions of the same build. A single layered quick-&-cheap one, a medieval one with snow & other tweaks, & a steampunk version with snow & other tweaks, IIRC. That allows him (& his fans) to have his layer cakes & eat them, too ;) I'm more inclined towards keeping things bundled up in a single set. And I don't have the option to use layered .pdfs either.
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Post by dungeonmistress on Apr 26, 2014 8:28:44 GMT -9
No layers? Really? I just downloaded gimp a couple of days ago and while I am far from being an expert at these things, it seems that gimp offers the option to use layers. And it's free. Again, I'm no expert and I don't know what programs you may be using or what your particular methods are, but it seems there should be a way...?
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 26, 2014 9:16:07 GMT -9
No layers? Really? I just downloaded gimp a couple of days ago and while I am far from being an expert at these things, it seems that gimp offers the option to use layers. And it's free. Again, I'm no expert and I don't know what programs you may be using or what your particular methods are, but it seems there should be a way...? The tools I use are rather unorthodox. Genetic/mathematical/procedural imaging tools. Full 3D for creating the final pages. (No, I'm not unwrapping 3D models, in case someone reading this is curious about this.)Never touched Photoshop or Gimp in my life. But at the core, I don't want to use layers. See, I make these templates first and foremost for myself. And quite frankly handling layered .pdfs during mass printing is a chore. So I prefer all options just laid out as separate pages. (Sort of like WWG does it.) That way I can just slip the printing guy a .txt file with a list of page-range codes for the file and be done with it.
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Post by dungeonmistress on Apr 26, 2014 9:27:03 GMT -9
That makes sense. I figured you had a reason (method behind the madness, as it were). Keep on doing what your doing, because your results are beautiful!
Genetic/mathematical/procedural imaging tools? Wow! Sounds really complicated. But again, your results speak for themselves. Kudos!
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 26, 2014 9:29:34 GMT -9
Genetic/mathematical/procedural imaging tools? Wow! Sounds really complicated. But again, your results speak for themselves. Kudos! I'm a programmer or rather AI/IT engineer, not an artist. Hence the predisposition towards different sorts of tools. Doubt I could as much as draw a straight line if my life depended on it.
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Post by dungeonmistress on Apr 26, 2014 9:33:24 GMT -9
You and my daughter would get along, I think. She is also a programmer, code writer, web designer, etc, etc...
I only know what I know about computers largely because of her!
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Post by dungeonmistress on Apr 26, 2014 9:37:03 GMT -9
This is my son, an underwater welder. This is a graphic my daughter did for his dive team three years ago.
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 26, 2014 9:48:40 GMT -9
This is a graphic my daughter did for his dive team three years ago. Good design. Very elegant and clean.
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Post by dungeonmistress on Apr 26, 2014 9:58:40 GMT -9
;)I know, right? (I'm not biased at all!) I truly admire her ability to do what she does; though it mystifies me. She is highly intelligent and very talented. I'm not proud of her at all...much!
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Post by WackyAnne on Apr 26, 2014 14:06:38 GMT -9
GIMP allows you to work with layers, but not produce a PDF with it. For that you need more complex, usually expensive programs. I can totally understand not wanting the hassle of learning how to, then doing all the extra work for layers. However, I do still recommend you think about more, smaller, less expensive sets. Gamers tend to be cheap (if not actually broke). And if they are anything like me, find it easier to spend a little here, a little there, a little now, a little later, not only to spread out the cost but also to feel comfortable with anew publisher and see how that work meshes with their needs. Your sales will be much higher, and a smaller set a week/fortnight/month is going to get your work more traffic than one big set every few months or so. I hope I don't sound too lecture-y, I just think your work looks good enough for you do well in the marketplace, and have both good sales and longevity with a little planning
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 26, 2014 21:46:24 GMT -9
However, I do still recommend you think about more, smaller, less expensive sets. "Make smaller sets" doesn't really answer how I should divide a set I consider feature complete in a fair way.
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 27, 2014 2:42:50 GMT -9
Today I tested the basic form for the small collapsible buildings. Using a pair of outhouses. Folded up: And flattened down: Might not be obvious but there is something locking the roof down when they are folded up. These are also super easy to assemble and even cut out. In the final version I'll vary the height of the two outhouses a bit + detail the textures up a little bit.
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Post by Vermin King on Apr 27, 2014 4:58:14 GMT -9
Who says outhouses can't be elegant. Very nicely done
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 30, 2014 4:52:59 GMT -9
Puff... Well, with the completion of the chickencoop only the side buildings remain. The chickencoop is actually an interesting build and I'm pretty sure I'll be revisiting the general idea of what I did there with different buildings in the future. Hmmm... fold flat swamp/coast village with buildings set atop wooden beams perhaps? With various walkways between them...
So I have two questions for you guys:
1) Are there any requests for things to add to the set? 2) Would you prefer the whole set to cost 10-12$ or it be split into 2 sets for 6-750$ each (core + accessories)?
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Post by oldschooldm on Apr 30, 2014 6:55:07 GMT -9
Would you prefer the whole set to cost 10-12$ or it be split into 2 sets for 6-7 50$ each (core + accessories)? How many copies do you want to sell? $10-12 is a pretty high price-point compared to other sets. I buy very few sets over $9.95 - they have to be very special and meet a particular need. But I'm not a vendor, only a customer. There are other vendors here that may have another opintion. --- Perhaps if you uploaded photos of what's included it would be easier for us to make price recommendations. Best of luck!
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Post by oldschooldm on Apr 30, 2014 6:58:13 GMT -9
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 30, 2014 7:03:06 GMT -9
Would you prefer the whole set to cost 10-12$ or it be split into 2 sets for 6-7 50$ each (core + accessories)? How many copies do you want to sell? $10-12 is a pretty high price-point compared to other sets. I buy very few sets over $9.95 - they have to be very special and meet a particular need. But I'm not a vendor, only a customer. There are other vendors here that may have another opintion. --- Perhaps if you uploaded photos of what's included it would be easier for us to make price recommendations. Best of luck! To be honest... I don't know, I just want spare cash for more minis. >.> A GM always needs more minis. As for the content, I'll be definitely showing off what's included + presentations on what can be done with the various options when the time comes. The set is going towards 50 or 60 pages of content to print, all tightly packed. But that doesn't really do justice to the ridiculous numbers of ways the components are designed to go with each other.
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 30, 2014 7:07:34 GMT -9
Mhm, I own that set and their cemetery set too. So basically the village set I'm currently brewing seems to be inching towards 3x the size of that.
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Post by Vermin King on Apr 30, 2014 7:10:50 GMT -9
I would think that you should break it up
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Post by oldschooldm on Apr 30, 2014 7:40:53 GMT -9
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 30, 2014 8:07:26 GMT -9
That's without layers, right? If so, I urge you to not use page-count as your metric for value. Why? When there are no layers page count gives you a very precise metric of how much content there is in the set.
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Post by squirmydad on Apr 30, 2014 8:35:27 GMT -9
Page count doesn't always translate to value for the consumer. You know how much effort you have put into the set and want to be fairly recompensed for your time, but the consumer only sees the one or two pages of content that actually appeal to them and make their purchase decisions based on a couple of really nice promotional images. Breaking it up into two sets of $5.95 or $6.95 (but on sale for 10% off (Special Launch Price Savings!) the first two weeks) will net you more sales in the long run. Pricing is funny, people use more, and want more, props, but don't want to have to pay much for them. People like buildings, usualy build less of them than props, but will pay more for sets of them. I'd like to see a swamp village on posts with rickety rope and wood slat walkways joining the platforms, depending on the number of unique style of buildings included (regardless of page count), say 3-4 different basic buildings with some other little options so you can customize them, would probably sell well at $9.95. I say probably because one of the major tipping factors in deciding to purchase is the quality of the presentation, not a big list of contents. I'd buy that swamp village.
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Post by hasturhasturhastur on Apr 30, 2014 8:50:47 GMT -9
Page count doesn't always translate to value for the consumer. You know how much effort you have put into the set and want to be fairly recompensed for your time, but the consumer only sees the one or two pages of content that actually appeal to them and make their purchase decisions based on a couple of really nice promotional images. Breaking it up into two sets of $5.95 or $6.95 (but on sale for 10% off (Special Launch Price Savings!) the first two weeks) will net you more sales in the long run. Pricing is funny, people use more, and want more, props, but don't want to have to pay much for them. People like buildings, usualy build less of them than props, but will pay more for sets of them. I'd like to see a swamp village on posts with rickety rope and wood slat walkways joining the platforms, depending on the number of unique style of buildings included (regardless of page count), say 3-4 different basic buildings with some other little options so you can customize them, would probably sell well at $9.95. I say probably because one of the major tipping factors in deciding to purchase is the quality of the presentation, not a big list of contents. I'd buy that swamp village. :) Mhm. Two sets seems to be the consensus. I'll probably make the split into "basic" building set and "accessory" set. That way the building set itself is perfectly stand alone and the accessory set... well... partially standalone but with elements that let you incorporate it into the basic set. As for building styles. This set isn't just fold flat. It's also modular. That means there are no basic buildings. But... I'll show that off more when I'm closer to finishing the elements I'm working on right now. The swamp set will also be both fold flat and modular if I go on to make it because... Modular, fold flat sets is what I like to have for my games. >.>
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Post by oldschooldm on Apr 30, 2014 8:53:10 GMT -9
That's without layers, right? If so, I urge you to not use page-count as your metric for value. Why? When there are no layers page count gives you a very precise metric of how much content there is in the set. You should take it as a red-flag warning that you don't yet understand that a single (layered) page that can produce literally hundreds or thousands of variations isn't significantly more valuable than a single sheet that is not at all customizable. Pricing isn't about how much work you put into it, or how many pages there are - it's about how appealing the product is to the customer - period. That's why I asked "How many copies do you want to sell?" If you say "lots" I'd say ignore your estimates completely, and match the prices on the market. If you say "I don't care how many" you can charge whatever you like. Some people test the market by releasing a small kit first, maybe even "pay what you want" just to see what the market will bear.
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Post by oldschooldm on Apr 30, 2014 8:57:10 GMT -9
Oh yeah - Fold Flat doesn't seem to add much of a premium: www.rpgnow.com/product/95177/DRAGONSHIRE-FoldFlat-Building-Expansion-1Fold flat (as with cutfiles) is an incentive to buy (vs. competition) not a for-cost feature. I think I'm done doing market research for you. Best of luck, and I look forward to your seeing your stuff (and maybe buying it if it isn't overpriced.)
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