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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 24, 2013 6:59:40 GMT -9
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Post by Parduz on Sept 24, 2013 7:26:09 GMT -9
Yep. I've talked about it in an italian forum. They're just crazy. Also think that they're unpainted. How much primer, blue paint and clear coat you will need to finish that army? LOL
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shep
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Post by shep on Sept 24, 2013 8:12:45 GMT -9
Nah, with the new coloured primers you can save a load of money, so you can buy even more minis... Muahahahahaaa! Eh?
To be honest, this deal is totally crazy, and though I cannot imagine anyone paying 10,000 Euros for a Space Marine chapter, I know that there will be some lunatics out there selling their car, house and grandmother just to drop GW that amount of money...
Also, beyond a lifetime of building and painting the minis, you will need at least an entire room for storage.
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 24, 2013 8:16:32 GMT -9
$14,000 Canadian dollars, and the exchange rate is 1.028 to the American. 11,500 x 1.03= $11,845.00 The other $2155.00 goes?
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Post by Parduz on Sept 24, 2013 9:46:16 GMT -9
I cannot imagine anyone paying 10,000 Euros Hey, they are only 9500€!
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Post by bravesirkevin on Sept 24, 2013 9:57:28 GMT -9
Well, that's waaaaay bigger than any normal army one might build... but I imagine there are those who would invest that much over the course of a few years as they slowly build up an army. I imagine this set allows people to save money by getting all the stuff at once.
There is another way I can see this one working out though. If you have say 19 friends who also play Space Marines, or who want to get into playing Space Marines then you could all chip in like $500 and get more for your money than you'd otherwise get.
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Post by mahotsukai on Sept 24, 2013 12:47:01 GMT -9
But it will be out of date within a year when the next edition/codex comes out!
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Post by spaceranger42 on Sept 24, 2013 12:50:17 GMT -9
We did not even receicve shipments that large when I worked for the company. That would take up more space than the back stock in any store with the exception of some of the larger battle bunkers.
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 24, 2013 15:05:23 GMT -9
Hah! I remember being happy at getting just one Land Raider.
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Post by flockofthese on Sept 24, 2013 15:25:34 GMT -9
I wonder how much money you actually save by getting this army. If its a good amount, I can see several people buying it together, then dividing it up. Its Games Workshop though, so I almost expect this bundle to actually cost more.
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 24, 2013 15:53:08 GMT -9
I wonder how much money you actually save by getting this army. If its a good amount, I can see several people buying it together, then dividing it up. Its Games Workshop though, so I almost expect this bundle to actually cost more. Most of that cost comes from the personal delivery in a full-sized Thunderhawk gunship.
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Post by aaron on Sept 24, 2013 16:42:52 GMT -9
[/quote]Most of that cost comes from the personal delivery in a full-sized Thunderhawk gunship. [/quote] Na you can save tons by having it shipped ground fright in a land-raider. GW has lost what sense they had! but that's ok I'm making a war game that will be every bit as cool and only cost 10$ u.s. plus the cost of printing. you can follow me on DA amadeushopkins.deviantart.com where I am current releasing sneak peaks of it as I go. Plus i'm plugging Cardboard Warriors over there in hopes to get more people involved in the paper-crafting! I hope to have my game out in late fall! then it's happy printing and anyone can play ! invite your friends over ( they don't have an army ?? no worries just print them up one and bingo your golden!)
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Post by WackyAnne on Sept 24, 2013 16:54:02 GMT -9
I wonder how much money you actually save by getting this army. If its a good amount, I can see several people buying it together, then dividing it up. Its Games Workshop though, so I almost expect this bundle to actually cost more. Never having bought anything (nor wanted to) from Warhammer 40K, I've certainly heard lots of things that would lead me to suspect that there's not a whole lot of saving going on here. To me, this release reeks of excess on the part of both the company and any potential purchaser, but then again, there are more than enough people spending equal amounts on decorating, clothing, vacations, etc. (not to mention more on cars, boats, monster homes)... It's really not all that out there when you think about it. The whole thing reminds me a bit of fashion designers' runway versus retail... as a way to tap the high end of their business, offering them a cachet unaffordable to the rest of mankind, all the while promoting the whole line. Such excess will surely lead to loads of free publicity, so I'm guessing that this news spreading will earn them at least a single set's worth over the next little while. How many people have read the details and thought "hell, no , that's too much... but sure would be nice to pick up that vehicle, or a couple of figures... and keep dreaming.." As for me, that $12K would take care of my Amazon wishlists, OneBookshelf wishlists, Paizo wishlists... and a few others... or send me and my family to visit my mother-in-law in England for a month (yes, that would be top of my wishlists).
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Post by spaceranger42 on Sept 25, 2013 0:37:41 GMT -9
If I told you what it costs to produce this product this would seem psychotically over priced. I will say that it costs GW pennies on the dollar to produce any given model.
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Post by bravesirkevin on Sept 25, 2013 1:32:17 GMT -9
If I told you what it costs to produce this product this would seem psychotically over priced. I will say that it costs GW pennies on the dollar to produce any given model. While I have to agree that GW stuff is a lot more pricey than it needs to be, I don't really think it's fair to measure the recommended retail price solely against the cost to spit a plastic sprue out of a mold. There are so many other factors involved, and their actual profit, though healthy, might not be nearly as monumental as one would imagine. Maintaining any sort of production facility is hideously expensive when you consider the costs of property, the price of the machines, the staff to man them and the other staff to handle all of the admin, bank charges, tax etc. GW also maintains several brick-and-mortar stores, each of which has their own set of massive expenses. The nature of the products they produce also means that they also need to maintain a pool of staff just to design new miniatures and models, a pool of staff responsible for the game design, a pool of staff for the graphic design and layout of all the books, magazines, packaging and promotional materials, and likely a pool of staff to handle the printing. In short, there's an awful lot of expenses that are unavoidable for them, and the scale of their operation actually exacerbates the expenses rather than mitigating them. (It's cheaper per unit to churn out lots of sprues, but the other expenses actually get bigger the bigger a company is because larger organisations need more complex infrastructure in order to function.) Another factor is the profit margins. There may be a massive profit margin on the minis and vehicles, but the profit margin on the printed materials is incredibly low. It's a very expensive exercise for them to create and print a codex. When you think of how many people actually contribute to the book (you've got game designers, writers, editors, graphic designers, art directors, mini painters, terrain builders, photographers, artists and play-testers... Then you've got reproduction technicians, printing press operators, finishers and guillotine operators... and that's all before it leaves the factory. There's plenty more in the chain after that) and consider the price of the materials and equipment that is used in the process and weigh that up against the actual price they sell them for, the books are not very profitable at all. They have to sell the books at a low profit margin, but as models have a lot more perceived value, they can offset the expense by bumping the price of those.
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shep
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Post by shep on Sept 25, 2013 2:25:06 GMT -9
I cannot imagine anyone paying 10,000 Euros Hey, they are only 9500€! And you have yet to include the colours...
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shep
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Post by shep on Sept 25, 2013 2:38:36 GMT -9
If I told you what it costs to produce this product this would seem psychotically over priced. I will say that it costs GW pennies on the dollar to produce any given model. While I have to agree that GW stuff is a lot more pricey than it needs to be, I don't really think it's fair to measure the recommended retail price solely against the cost to spit a plastic sprue out of a mold. There are so many other factors involved, and their actual profit, though healthy, might not be nearly as monumental as one would imagine. Maintaining any sort of production facility is hideously expensive when you consider the costs of property, the price of the machines, the staff to man them and the other staff to handle all of the admin, bank charges, tax etc. GW also maintains several brick-and-mortar stores, each of which has their own set of massive expenses. The nature of the products they produce also means that they also need to maintain a pool of staff just to design new miniatures and models, a pool of staff responsible for the game design, a pool of staff for the graphic design and layout of all the books, magazines, packaging and promotional materials, and likely a pool of staff to handle the printing. In short, there's an awful lot of expenses that are unavoidable for them, and the scale of their operation actually exacerbates the expenses rather than mitigating them. (It's cheaper per unit to churn out lots of sprues, but the other expenses actually get bigger the bigger a company is because larger organisations need more complex infrastructure in order to function.) Another factor is the profit margins. There may be a massive profit margin on the minis and vehicles, but the profit margin on the printed materials is incredibly low. It's a very expensive exercise for them to create and print a codex. When you think of how many people actually contribute to the book (you've got game designers, writers, editors, graphic designers, art directors, mini painters, terrain builders, photographers, artists and play-testers... Then you've got reproduction technicians, printing press operators, finishers and guillotine operators... and that's all before it leaves the factory. There's plenty more in the chain after that) and consider the price of the materials and equipment that is used in the process and weigh that up against the actual price they sell them for, the books are not very profitable at all. They have to sell the books at a low profit margin, but as models have a lot more perceived value, they can offset the expense by bumping the price of those. That actually does not explain, why I have to pay 25 Euros for a box of 5 GW plastic minis compared to 8 Euros for a blister of 3 to 5 Reaper white metal minis (and even much less for something from the Bones series which again would be plastics). Also, GW being a global player that has already established its infrastructure, the costs for this deal come down to producing the (metal) molds for the plastic mini sprues, producing the sprues, packing the boxes and bundling them into some kind of freight container. I imagine that the deal is a combined bundle of regular retail boxes incl. all regular troop variations available. This is no special edition with unique minis. And as far as I can see, you will even have to pay extra for the shipping (since you won't be able to buy this at your local GW store)...
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Post by aaron on Sept 25, 2013 6:02:32 GMT -9
Long post sorry LOL bravesirkevin I totally understand what your saying about the company infrastructure and all the hands that go into making these products but ultimately ( being a graphic designer) I'm painfully aware of what the going price is for printing a codex and how cheaply they can get away with doing it.... First the artist are horribly marginalized by the company and get paid next to nothing, ( this is not speculation I've known some of them they will tell you the same) The writers are almost none entities to GW as most of the uppers are the ones who are writing this stuff as a side from what their normal day to day job is( that's why nothing is congregant and the past doesn't line up with the present )though they are trying to fix that by saying none of that other stuff happened. The printing cost is very marginal when your printing on the scale that GW is, honestly they are probably getting each codex for somewhere around 5 to 10$u.s. a book the only reason that they Profit margin is so low on the printed material is Piracy, bottom line. People pirate anything printed. In fact I expect that when I finish my game, because it's in PDF form i'm going to loose half my market or more to piracy, their really is no way to stop it and I have made peace with that. Because GW can't stop piracy they are forced to sell the printed material for cost or just above. otherwise you bet that each rule book would be 500$ U.S. and every codex would be 100$ U.S. and they would gouge you like crazy. They are not loosing any money on the printed material because they don't pay their people what their worth... but I'm not faulting GW for that, no company ever does. everyone wants fine art but no one wants to pay for it. You also have to know that they get all kinds of deals on shipping especially world wide. Their are all kinds of incentive programs and shipping deals that they would be insane not to take advantage of. If anything I would be willing to bet that Shipping is one area that GW is actually making money on. People will think that it's hugely expensive to ship to a foreign country and that's because when you and I do it we go down to the post and pay a huge fee to ship one or so packages to a foreign country, but when I set up a deal with a distribution company then the cost for shipping mass quantities of things brings my price down to cents on the dollar. People will still pay really high shipping costs though because they think shipping is so expensive. Since I am not required to tell you that it's only costing me a dollar fifty to send you something, but I'm charging you 10 dollars shipping...I will. Soooo ya I would be willing to bet GW makes a bulk of their profit in shipping. Why else do you think they charge individual shipping on every item you purchased instead of putting it together in one package and only charging you once. shipping is GW's bread and butter. Again not faulting GW for this like everything they do it's not original, most big companies take advantage of people this way. In America we call it smart business, most people just call it unethical.
The cost of the models is negligible, the artisans themselves are again marginalized and told they can be replaced in a heartbeat so that the company can pay them almost nothing and they are happy to get it, especially in counties where being an artisan is very hard like England. The cost of the maniacal stuff has LOOOONG paid for it's self 10 times over. The printed materials are not costing them anywhere near as much as you might think, so all in all they could easily run their company selling their products for a fourth of what they do.
It all comes down to target market. Obviously GW has shifted their target market from late high school early collage boys, to more upscale consumers who like things with logos and labels on them.
For instance Lexus and Toyota are the same car almost exactly, but people will pay thousands more for a Lexus, because it says Lexus. It lets people around them know they can afford a Lexus. Gw is trying to be the Mercedes / Lexus of the gaming world. They are definitely running a gambit and I say good for them and I say good luck with that... I hope it works out for you. Nintendo upon discoving they couldn't keep up with Microsoft and Sony tried to change their target demographic to little girls and old people ... only to find out there was a reason that the gaming industry is aimed at late high-school early collage boys. The first reason is, they are into that sort of thing. The second big reason is they have time to play and the third and biggest reason is they have money to burn...most are working crappy low end jobs and still live at home with mom and dad with little or no overhead as to how they spend what little money they make. when they get older or move into late collage they loose the time to full time corers and the money to car payments and mortgages and children. before late high school they can't get a job so they have to rely on the older guy who's money is tight for aforementioned reasons ... so really GW is going to learn a lesson, unless their annalists see something that the rest of the gaming community doesn't. Sadly I don't think that's the case. watching their stocks drop and seeing them over extend themselves trying to sell to a market that is fictitious as the gaming universe they have created.
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Post by mahotsukai on Sept 25, 2013 10:17:46 GMT -9
It all comes down to target market. Obviously GW has shifted their target market from late high school early collage boys, to more upscale consumers who like things with logos and labels on them. You're actually slightly out in your 'Target Market'. It is and has been for many years early high school, there are several reasons for this: Ooh shiny syndrome in young males. Testosterone fuelled competitiveness. (My army is bigger/badder than yours) Massive peer pressure. (What you've only got the old landraider? If you're doing space marines you've got to get the new one, we all have.) Pester power. (Any parent will understand this one. The kids don't buy, the parents do.) And finally there is a new fresh crop to fleece every year. That is how GW are still around despite the amount of dislike within the gaming community. However after saying all that, I would also say that the wider gaming community would not be as we see it now without GW and Citadel Miniatures. I spent 15 years with GW. When I started there were only 5 stores. by the time that I left, they were a global concern, with a corporate mindset after the 1991 management buyout. Having been on the inside I would agree with spaceranger42.
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Post by spaceranger42 on Sept 25, 2013 10:34:45 GMT -9
On the floor, older patrons would buy more in one visit but the bread and butter of the stores is the 14 to 18 year old who is in there spending $6 or $8 a day and then getting their big stuff on birthdays and holidays. I like the product, just not the price hikes.
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Post by mahotsukai on Sept 25, 2013 14:03:02 GMT -9
When the price tickets became coded, with this weeks prices on posters on the wall was when I finally turned my back on GW.
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Post by bravesirkevin on Sept 25, 2013 14:48:38 GMT -9
When the price tickets became coded, with this weeks prices on posters on the wall was when I finally turned my back on GW. Prices were coded when I bought my first GW product... that was at least 15 years ago. I took a long time to by GW stuff, because I actually hated it almost all the way up to the end of 90s because their figures were lumpy and cartoonish, and I was a hardcore fan of Ral Partha and Reaper minis. The new style plastics were what finally changed my mind about things. My main reason for not buying new minis is that I already have enough plastic pieces to build virtually any miniature I might need, and several hundred unpainted metal figures that are just lying around because I don't have time to work on them. For me to go and spend money on a figure, that figure would have to be incredibly impressive.
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Post by aaron on Sept 25, 2013 17:49:53 GMT -9
my fist introduction to miniatures was 40k. It was the old dark blue plastic space marines box set for rough trader and for years it was the only table top war game I even knew about. I grew up playing 40k it was a huge part of my childhood. I totally geeked out over Warhammer 40,000: Rites of War and played Fire warrior till my fingers hurt from all the clicking ... I love Dawn of war I have sole storm with all the armies and the Total anialitaion mods. at one point I had probably a 20k point eldar army. I love 40k but I became disillusioned over time as they kept moving away from what I loved in the game and kept changing the rules, changing the codexes I watched my favorite units become castrated and so on ... then the price hikes. I don't hate GW, I'm just disappointed that they left me behind.
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