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Post by Parduz on Oct 31, 2013 4:19:23 GMT -9
I'm the one that know nothing, but just your cheaper customer and forum friend. So I'd like to share some random thoughts from this point of view. Piracy: I think i got catched by the paper model/miniatures world by seeing a pirated package containing some EZ tiles sets, a WorldWorks set, and a 3D sci-fi base i can't remember the author (i'm talking about 10 years ago). Then i discovered the paper related forums. I never used that stuffs 'cause the empathy towards the autors/artists: being in contact with them in the forums is what made me understand the amount of work there's behind these stuffs (don't take it for granted: ppl that is not fond into graphic may not be able to evaluate the efforts, just like ppl that don't know how to make music is not able to tell how much time i need to find a good riff or groove for a song). So, for me, piracy worked as advertising, and now i'm your loyal friend. Protection about PDFs, there's not really a lot you can do without making the loyal customer angry. Puttin a password to lock certain features don't work: it is easy to crack it (a matter of seconds with the right tool, which is widely avalaible, cracked as well), unless you also set a USER password, which then force the user to type it each time he opens the file. Same is the "watermark" OBS puts on files, or even the "PREVIEW" label it puts on the "full size previev": it is just easy picked and deleted. So, if the watermarked PDF have a cost, just ignore it, and never put full files in the "full size preview". Perhaps one way could be to write infos in the images (EXIF tags? i don't remember) as there's few ppl knowing or remembering they exist... still it's nothing that it's hard to bypass... it is just more often overlooked. Said this, there's nothing more i can say to be useful: i regret to be that kind of customer that buy things only when they're discounted, but my economy is what it is: i'd like to be more "generous" but there's not so much i can do about it. So, WackyAnne, good luck for your commercial adventure
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Post by aaron on Oct 31, 2013 4:28:55 GMT -9
ah I did !! LOL Sorry to impugn you Wyvren !! bortorama welcome to the board and thanks for reforming ! LOL
Parduz your absolutely right it only takes a matter of moments to crack a PDF , strip it of any encryption and then it only takes a few more seconds in Photoshop or similar programs to strip a watermark. ( don't ask me how I know ) I think some times manufactures are so caught up in anti piracy that they forget about the consumer and make the product so awkward it's undesirable.Or It's so protected that only pirates will be able to used it ... almost self defeating in a way. I don't know about you Ann but I'm not adding any extra types of encryption to my pdf files. the one thing I can think that will slow down piracy is pre-selling , well that and file size. My PDF is going to be HUGE! it will have my entire game in one easy download but it will have to be broken up if you want to put it on a disk or small stick. of coarse it will only be a matter of minutes before some pirate breaks it up and starts distributing it all over the web but at least I will have the few moments and that something right? besides if their going to pirate my stuff I want them to work for it LOL So Ann what have you thought about Advertising? does anyone have good suggestions and warnings of bad marketing decisions?
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Post by glennwilliams on Oct 31, 2013 5:46:54 GMT -9
On One Book Shelf, I stopped using the pdf preview for a while, but there's an easy workaround to the problem Parduz mentioned. You can control which pages display in the pdf preview, so I select the cover, instructions, and a couple of model pages. The drawback is that the pages have to be consecutive, so you can't show two pages of instructions, skip and show two pages of models.
As Aaron ,mentioned, advertising and marketing in general are really big issues. Someday, I'll actually learn how to do it right. In the mean time, I'd recommend a facebook page, TMP, and . . . here.
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Post by pavaro on Oct 31, 2013 6:59:01 GMT -9
This whole discussion recalls me about my plans publishing... The problem is this that my works rather will not buy nobody...
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Post by wyvern on Oct 31, 2013 13:03:20 GMT -9
LOL Sorry to impugn you Wyvren !! Maybe I should put on a Robert Newton accent and dig out an eye patch; it is the night for it! The whole piracy discussion here sounds like a lot of effort to save a couple of $$ and entirely fail to support the people producing these wonderful products in the first place. Without them, there'd be nothing to pirate. Never got the whole music piracy deal either, maybe because I've known too many struggling musicians over the years. On Parduz's point about having to make purchases economically, I don't see a problem in looking for the best deals you can get without resorting to piracy. Papercraft is a particular delight that way - look at the free stuff on OBS this Hallowe'en weekend, as well as the amazing amount of free downloads there all the time, aside from the stunning freebies all across the CWF. Even if you're only able to pay a little, that's still positive support for the designers/manufacturers. Plus I'd also say that being able to express opinions and make useful comments here provides further such support. And it's fascinating to see how much interest and comment WackyAnne's original query has already raised. Hopefully, some of it may even prove useful!
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Post by Parduz on Nov 4, 2013 0:08:12 GMT -9
The whole piracy discussion here sounds like a lot of effort to save a couple of $$ and entirely fail to support the people producing these wonderful products in the first place. Well, things like this are never just the same for everyone. Talking about me, i stumbled on that package while "pirating" the original language books of a well known game (MUCH more costly), 'cause i was'nt able to cross-reference some game terms between my printed italian books and some free online material. ( Which leaded me asking why someone cares to put that sets online even with stuffs they do not belong... can a unsatisfied customer be SO MUCH unsatisfied to do this as a retailation?)
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Post by Rhannon on Nov 4, 2013 3:15:11 GMT -9
Ok, I didn't succeed. I would have liked to avoid saying my opinion ( too stiff, too lapidary ) on piracy ( of any kind. In our hobby, in video games, movies, novels, music ... all ) about "piracy". That it is a great "evil" of our time, especially with the digital files' diffusion, and with the fact that people know more about their rights and ever more often forgets his duties ( moral ). Piracy is theft. There are no excuses. Imho. It is even more odious in cases that hurts small producers/authors. But it is not justifiable towards all. This is my starting point. I don't say this as a professional distortion ( I'm a police officer ) but because in many years of gaming and other hobbies ( comics, film, music, videogames, ok these are also games ... ), I've always seen that piracy seriously damages producers/authors but also the consumers like me, like us, the enthusiasts. Wyvern explained very well reasons, imho. I understand the example that Parduz says. A control, a comparison ... but this requires the files' deletion after the check and their not absolute use for other things that bring an illegitimate enjoyment ( eg play with them ). Otherwise it becomes just a poor excuse to justify itself. And this is, imho, a very rare case. Perhaps only one in a thousand who steal. Parduz: "...can a unsatisfied customer be SO MUCH unsatisfied to do this as a retailation?..."IMHO absolutely not. Retaliation?, Revenge? ... An unsatisfied customer doesn't buy more products from that producer. But he is not justified to steal. Yet I, in the many years that I have, always saw that everyone is trying to justify their actions, trying to turn them into something else. video games cost too much, so I will have to try them before ... This film can be bad so I check it before ... the music may be poor, the novel boring ... I only see a few chapters ... this is too expensive and it is a right of all to have a free culture. This is an evil corporation ... Were better than the old thieves. They steal and don't speak. The problem, but this is just my limited personal and very subjective opinion, is the lack of respect for others and ignorance that more and more rampant. When I copy something illegally I'm stealing the work of others. Do not allow him to help their families, do not allow that they can produce other things, and so I damage even those who legitimately enjoys these things, because he paid for them. Because we want everything. And we want everything for free. But in nature doesn't exist "for free", everything has a cost ( consumerism, pollution, major global economic choices that enrich only a few, large social decisions, however, favor a only a few ... ) ... to tell the whole truth in nature there is not even "democracy" ( but that's another story and doesn't cover piracy ) The fact is that we want to be "free" but we do not accept the direct consequence. Choose. And choose means preferred one thing and forego another. We want everything ( then for 100 pirated games we use just one, but we consider ourselves more intelligent than those who bought only it, because we have not spent money ) So ... idiocy will be the end of the world. This is not a prediction, it is a prophecy. Ok ... in short. Piracy is theft. There is no possible justification. If something is not good I don't buy it. If it is too expensive I don't buy it, and in any case there are always many other possibilities after a very short time. Discounted deals, bundles, price decreases ... unfortunately this doesn't help those looking for "everything now".
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Post by Parduz on Nov 4, 2013 3:40:44 GMT -9
Parduz: "...can a unsatisfied customer be SO MUCH unsatisfied to do this as a retailation?..."IMHO absolutely not. Retaliation?, Revenge? ... An unsatisfied customer doesn't buy more products from that producer. But he is not justified to steal. Sorry for have not been clear. With the word "can" I was not asking if that angry customer "have the right to...", i was instead wondering about the motivaton needed to pack that stuffs (small producer paper models and tiles) in an unrelated pack (big better-to-keep-the-name-unknown worldwide producer)... Said this, i mostly agree with you. The debate behind the "mostly" is old as internet is, and also OT in this thread (uh, and yes, i don't have that english file anymore 'cause then there was a site about that game wit the fluff stripped out and just the rules worldwide available )
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Post by Rhannon on Nov 4, 2013 4:29:12 GMT -9
I'm sorry. In English I have lost the sense of your speech. And I responded to a direct question rather than a theoretical question.
Then I would say, however, that in my opinion there is also the right answer. It is not a matter about big ( and evil ) multinational company. They damage also independent producers (I call them, the producers, small, but not for their works'quality ) because it's "all, now and for free". There are no explanations ( as there are no justifications versus an evil company, too )
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Post by x3d on Nov 4, 2013 4:41:17 GMT -9
I tend to think that if you ban 'piracy' completely then you erase an absolute hoard of creative learning, ideas and projects that have been given light through downloading overpriced software, digital products will always face this issue.. so I just accept it. I do not condone piracy nor do I find it abhorrent, I am more concerned with much harsher crimes of greed and deceit taking place within large corporations and governments
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Post by Rhannon on Nov 4, 2013 6:52:35 GMT -9
I tend to think that if you ban 'piracy' completely then you erase an absolute hoard of creative learning, ideas and projects that have been given light through downloading overpriced software, digital products will always face this issue.. so I just accept it. I do not condone piracy nor do I find it abhorrent, I am more concerned with much harsher crimes of greed and deceit taking place within large corporations and governments I think I understand your observation, Graeme ( I hope ). But I consider it only as an exception. And above all related to computer programs. Thus a sort of instructional study. If, eg, you sell your beautiful original figures for some few bucks ( 1/2/3 ... ), and I take them without paying ... which is my creative motivation? as well as a music file or a movie ... imho there is no creative learning intent. The sole intent that there may still be the use. I don't want to erase piracy and creativity at the same time. Is the creativity that brings forward all of us. Improve something, make it less expensive, simpler, more effective ... create something completely different, or that does not even exist before. Creativity is a very important thing. It must always be helped. Just that it is not one of the usual excuses. But even in this case there are often trial-programs, sometimes you just have to see how something works in order to propose an improved feature. So I am convinced that absolutes can't exist . So we can't even say that we want absolute ban piracy ... What I say is "to be honest", don't make non-existent excuses. Then nature provides exceptions for all. We all (I hope) are more interested in more serious crimes, committed against entire groups and communities ... or even only individuals ... but I think that to try to judge as well hard as we should be as pure as possible ( it is a kind of italian proverb. In my language it is rhymed ). It means that if I can and I steal 10 then it becomes difficult to judge who can and steals in 1000. Difficult from the moral viewpoint. Ok, I'm messing up too much this topic ... I stop here ...
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Post by aaron on Nov 4, 2013 7:02:16 GMT -9
the only way to ban piracy completely would be to get rid of all the computers on earth. Right now copyright laws are ambiguous at best and not designed to protect digital media in every country in the world. For instance many countries don't recognize or even care about the copyright laws of the united states and the United states has no way to enforce their laws in a foreign country. Every one knows a law is only a law so far as it can be enforced otherwise it's a good idea or guideline but not a law. Copyrights are merely guidelines in many countries and many more don't even recognize that much. That being said I must agree with Rhannon Piracy is a plague on man kind.
X3d Big corporate greed and large corrupt governments aren't your big concern when starting a small internet business. Piracy however, can and will shut your doors before you open. As a big corporation I could soak the damage done by piracy by shifting the damage to other products that can't be pirated. Like Sony, if their games get pirated they can make up the difference by upping the price of their T.V.s and other devices. so the people who are buying a new Sony T.V. are also in some way paying for pirated PS3 games. This way Sony can keep it's doors open and still make games for the PS3/4 unless the Piracy is so bad that they can't afford to mark up the t.v.s and still be competitive in the T.V. market. then they will just close their doors to the PS you can see this with the HUGE backlash that piracy has had in the gaming industry. HUNDREDS of people have lost their jobs over it and many many companies have closed their doors due to it. Piracy has hurt the American economy more than just about any other and I know lots of people personally who have suffered because of it. x3d no learning comes without a cost, most times you have to pay for it. This creative learning you speak of could and does happen in other ways that are not destructive and are payed for by the person getting the skills. otherwise you defer the cost of that learning to people who didn't know they were paying for it. it's like saying hey I learned all about PDF programming today sorry it cost you your business and livelihood, sorry your kids are going to have to eat out of a dumpster, sorry I just put your life into the toilet but hey I learned how to crack websites and encryption ... that wouldn't be there if I was just honest to begin with ... ah the cruel irony of it all ... no In the end Piracy hurts everyone.
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Post by x3d on Nov 4, 2013 7:35:42 GMT -9
aaron.. I don't agree with anything you have said and feel that you are eating the crap your government feeds you. If you wish to avoid piracy then manufacture a product that is worthwhile not a digital product that is worthless.
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Post by oldschooldm on Nov 4, 2013 8:40:39 GMT -9
Please, let's chill. We can all agree that the people here are creators and all deserve compensation for their work, right? I pledge to (re)pay for everything I use. If it was given away as free by the creator, I will pay by citing the source when I post pictures and kitbashes. Let's support each other by respecting each other's work, not (re)arguing laws, corporations, and governments.
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Post by mesper on Nov 4, 2013 11:27:26 GMT -9
...If you wish to avoid piracy then manufacture a product that is worthwhile not a digital product that is worthless. This... honestly I don't get it Do you mean that only MATERIAL/PHYSICAL goods are worthwhile - and DIGITAL products are worthless (only because you can't touch)? If so... OMG I'm afraid you are still living in XIX C! Ad. If you wish to avoid piracy then manufacture a productWell, most of mine digital content and products come from my printed (i.e. material) issues (mostly Kartonowa Armia / Cardboard Army). And these printed issues were also pirated. Perhaps size of this piracy wasn't as big as on digital field but still. Anyway piracy exists no matter what or how you are producing.// And, just to make it clear, I do believe that these printed issues were quality and worthwhile (well, I sold dozens of thousands of each issue, some series sold in hundreds of thousands including licensed ones during a couple of years - on a relative small and not so wealthy market). Yet these printed issues were also pirated! In most cases (good for me! in rather poor quality (badly scanned) and printed on a low quality cardboard and in cheapest possible/old printing technology (without additional 5-th colour, no finishing lacquer layer etc.). Then some parts of printed issues (both graphics and text) were "quoted" and used without any assent.
In fact I was defending mostly thanks to 1)quality and... 2)distribution (colportage) agreements - as was able to deliver country-wise newly high-quality printed issues at the same time (via book-store networks, press stands, hipermarkets etc. sale channels) which was not possible for pirates due to legal barriers or simply costs (well there are distribution agreements advantages but there are also substantial costs linked for publishers:)// Ad. DIGITAL products are worthless In fact for creating mine both printed and digital content I'm using THE SAME tools and skills plus knowledge (OK I need some additional knowledge/experience when it comes to preparing DTP materials for professional printing compared to simple multi-page PDF but these are really minor differencies) Then to create and produce content I have to have the SAME basic tools (at least decent graphics and DTP packages and other office/editing/publishing tools etc.), which I have to pay for (not only because of software quality but also licence for commercial use). Then I have to pay for external services like hosting, fast and reliable internet connection, then there are also some backup solutions etc. I'm not even counting computer (hardware) and all the additional costs (time or money) like bookkeeping, royalty payments, taxes...
=>>In both cases (printed=material and digital publishing) product is content-wise basically if not exactly THE SAME. =>>Then costs needed for CREATION OF CONTENT are THE SAME.
So the only one DIFFERENCE is distribution.
// For some people printed issue is more worth and at the same time for others digital is the best choice (as they can buy it comfortably from home, price is usually lower and they can print exactly the page thy wanted and in quantity or even quality needed - not mentioning possibility to modify:)
But BASICALLY in both cases they are receiving the same content - which cost me, as an author and publisher, the same amount of time, money and skills
BTW: there are people who want/need BOTH versions:) Vide recently introduced MATCHBOOK programme by Amazon (combo: printed book + digital version e-book) Then some of my customers who started from printed issues wants digital version and vice versa. So they are receiving the same or highly comparable content kinda twice but they appreciate more features/flexibility/convenience, and they are willing to pay for it. //
So WHAT possibly could be the REASON for treating digital version of the same content as worthless?
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Post by x3d on Nov 4, 2013 12:12:42 GMT -9
I really do not see any point in this argument.. we all have our opinions, I just believe that 90% of the time piracy is used as a scapegoat for businesses that are failing miserably and request public sympathy.
People who pirate will never buy the product in the first place so where is the loss? and please refrain from placing me in some archaic era.
Digital content is cheap to produce and has no inherent value whatsoever.
I expected that people who have such enthusiasm for a 'hobby' would place more importance on creativity instead of profit.
I may sound harsh and I do not wish to offend but I cannot help feeling disappointed..
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Post by oldschooldm on Nov 4, 2013 12:30:16 GMT -9
Please. Stop. Or take it to private messages. You are speaking passed one another. Or am I the one who's out of place here? I asked for some mutual respect, and got completely ignored. (I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given the context...) I am no longer reading this thread. WackyAnne - your thread got hijacked so please start a new one if you are looking for more advice...
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Post by WackyAnne on Nov 4, 2013 12:49:25 GMT -9
Please, let's chill. We can all agree that the people here are creators and all deserve compensation for their work, right? I pledge to (re)pay for everything I use. If it was given away as free by the creator, I will pay by citing the source when I post pictures and kitbashes. Let's support each other by respecting each other's work, not (re)arguing laws, corporations, and governments. Thank you, oldschooldm. Please keep this thread on track, ladies and gentlemen. It has been so very informative and helpful, not just for me the OP, that I would hate for it to degenerate into arguments. I am conscious of the fact that my creations may be shared, willingly or no, consciously or not. That is a balancing act I will have to keep in mind over the coming months. I don't intend for Picnic Adventures! to be a purely digital product, merely for that to be one avenue for one segment of the market. Print-and-play versions are economical, easily and rapidly distributable, and easily updatable, but they won't work for everyone. There is the concern that digital material can be pirated, altered, appropriated, but more than that, it is ephemeral. I'd like to produce a physical copy of Picnic Adventures!, in what ever final form(s) it reaches, because as a tangible artifact it can be lent, treasured, curated; it's harder to lose or forget about, it is something _real_. One day, perhaps, my sons will be digging out their copies of the "Red Check Box" to introduce their own kids to roleplaying games... I can dream, can't I? But this thread is a way to make those dreams into reality...
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Post by Rhannon on Nov 4, 2013 12:53:51 GMT -9
Please. Stop. Or take it to private messages. You are speaking passed one another. Or am I the one who's out of place here? I asked for some mutual respect, and got completely ignored. (I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given the context...) I am no longer reading this thread. WackyAnne - your thread got hijacked so please start a new one if you are looking for more advice... I completely agree with you, oldschooldm. And I apologize to WackyAnne for this heavy OT. I'm sorry. I don't reply more to the OT, although I would like it, and I hope that admins can split this thread and save the correct part.
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Post by squirmydad on Nov 4, 2013 14:41:27 GMT -9
Value is entirely subjective, nothing has any inherent value. If an artist chooses to put a price on their product then that is what is worth to them. You can buy it or not but you don't get to just take it. There is no excuse for piracy. Piracy bad.
Now, what commentary can you provide to assist a new publisher in serving their customers and not losing their creative edge because they are struggling distribution and advertising issues?
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Post by mesper on Nov 4, 2013 18:31:34 GMT -9
... Now, what commentary can you provide to assist a new publisher in serving their customers and not losing their creative edge because they are struggling distribution and advertising issues? Well I have some commentary, but I was shocked by x3d statement I feel sorry that WackyAnne thread was kinda hijacked (well - obviously PIRACY can hurt in many ways;) So most probably I'll pass my comments and suggestions via PM
But... I'm not arguing - I just bring that EACH artist is using same skills and tools to produce the content - so the effort and cost is the same for both material/printed or digital version - and only one difference is distribution!
=>>Actually x3d provides no arguments and trying to avoid the discussion in kinda slick manner.
Well, perhaps for x3d his own digital products are WORTHLESS?!? As he is probably using some FREE software then FREE models/templates - so ALL he needs to do is simply set up the camera (LOL!) end then export A and B flat view to some raster program (again, probably FREE one?) so then he can put same FREE filters and VOILA - figurine is ready!
So yes - no skills, no costs... FREE and... worthless (as well as ALL digital content according to your own word;))
Well, it's OK for me In fact I find x3d minis amazing (vide previous post) as well as probably many CWF users!
=>>>BUT please do NOT even dare to tell that work of heart and passion of others is a crap (and worthless means crap)! It's simply just don't fair!
Especially here at forums where people are sharing with their hobby and passion, some of they are just trying their skills, drawing by hand, some just learning how to add some polish or assemble their minis.
There is a lot of artist and publishers which begins here at CWF from simple figurines/projects - and thanks to their HARD work and some help and advice from the other forums members they step-by-step become really appreciated artists and some of them even established publishers!
But still you are judging their work "worthless", just because it's digital? SHAME ON YOU!
Well, why don't you put it to the simple test? Try to find a PUBLISHER (not self publishing) which will agree to put some real money into print or digital release sets made by you (oh, forgot you don't have any IP or set so far...), then perhaps you will find if YOUR work is worthwhile or not.
When you will find such a publisher, then when you will establish some substantial number of released sets - then we can discuss again what is worthwhile or opposite.
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Post by pavaro on Nov 4, 2013 21:33:11 GMT -9
Wow! I see that mesper is very angry... Back to topic, I think mesper has some right. I make the figurines and I share for free. Although I bought many things to do figures (program, tablet, A lightbox etc.). I think version digital and paper are valuable for both. It all depends on how we approach this.
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Post by aaron on Nov 5, 2013 3:49:21 GMT -9
I certainly was not trying to hijack your thread Ann I was only pointing to Piracy as it would effect your business and it was something to consider in your start up plans, I had no Idea people felt so strongly about it... so pulling out check list of subject to avoid lets see... religion, politics and yep here it is on the bottom of the list internet piracy ! how could I have missed that ... again sorry every one my bad.
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Post by glennwilliams on Nov 5, 2013 6:24:38 GMT -9
I certainly was not trying to hijack your thread Ann I was only pointing to Piracy as it would effect your business and it was something to consider in your start up plans, I had no Idea people felt so strongly about it... so pulling out check list of subject to avoid lets see... religion, politics and yep here it is on the bottom of the list internet piracy ! how could I have missed that ... again sorry every one my bad. A someone who's been pirated, there's not a whole lot you can do about it except produce the best products you can and get your name known. So, my advice is basically ignore the piracy issue (except to condemn it when the occasion presents itself). Concentrate on marketing your products. Pricing is a problem. Too high and there are no sales. Too low and you have lost income. There's no magic formula. I use about fifty cents US per model page (not counting untextured items like interior supports and 25 cents for duplicated pages that are simply retextures or rescales) based on a recommendation from Mel Ebbles (Chris Rowe). There's no magic formula, and the price point shifts constantly (I can track a recession and pay periods from sales). Don't expect dramatic sales (you'll get a spike on introduction of your company and after each product release, then it tails off almost mathematically). I make enough to buy games and pay for cruises (by saving up). That's it. Track your expenses and keep records. If you're in the US, you're business and need to file schedule C and SE (it got me Social Security coverage so I can't complain too much). I'll let others more successful take on the tricky subject of marketing. I haven't mastered it--and a career in civil service and academia didn't prepare me for it. However, it's tough to separate your product from yourself. People aren't rejecting you, they're rejecting a particular product (and I've got the stinkers to prove it). Mostly, good luck. It's enormous fun to design, a psycho-drama on release, and jumping for joy when you start seeing sales. And as Robert Heinlein said of getting his first check for a story, "I was spoiled for honest work."
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Post by squirmydad on Nov 5, 2013 9:59:02 GMT -9
Thanks for cooling down, can we move on and refrain from personal attacks? If we can't then I'll be freezing this thread and start deleting offensive posts. Be nice.
Thanks Glenn, I was thinking about pricing this morning. One of the funny thing about pricing things too low is lack of perceived value; "it's only $.99, how good could it be?" Mel's formula works pretty good, I start my thought process at a Minimum of $1, then $.50 per page of new stuff. I don't really want my tank-y models to cost more than $4 or $5 as I think that beyond that people start to expect more for for their money. That sweet spot in pricing is a tricky thing.
One of the other good lessons from MelEbbles was that he considered his product line to the inventory of a boutique store, not a mega-mart. He wasn't trying to serve the needs of the mass market, just a clientele with a select interest that fell in line with the things that he liked to make.
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 5, 2013 15:13:26 GMT -9
This musician suggests giving stuff away and asking nicely for donations: www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.htmlIt is like a "pay what you want" policy. I know that Fiddlers Green has had improved sales since they started giving away a free model each month, which is another interesting tactic.
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Post by oldschooldm on Nov 5, 2013 16:00:07 GMT -9
This musician suggests giving stuff away and asking nicely for donations: www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking.htmlIt is like a "pay what you want" policy. I know that Fiddlers Green has had improved sales since they started giving away a free model each month, which is another interesting tactic. Yes! Yes! Watch this! I pay for the papers models (those that have a price) - but I don't buy some that *I* don't need yet. But, several of the designers/publishers here saw sales to me when they tried "pay what you want." PWYW asks me the question "What is this worth to YOU, customer?" Thereby getting a sale that they would never have received before! I would never have stolen it, nor would I have paid "full price", but I want to support you anyway. My advice to new publishers in this space: Build a fan base, no matter how you do it - they will support you as much as they can. Watch that video and read the threads by those willing to share their insights by Dave Graffam and Mel Ebbles and BraveSirKevin and [many others] here and see what models might work for you... Another personal anecdote: At least two designers here would never have had a single sale to me normally (not really my "style") - but they gave away stuff that I actually used and when something came along with a price that I didn't need, but could use, I bought it - out of gratitude and loyalty. And what do you know, the relationship was reciprocated and something *I* wanted made got made - and I bought that - and made Cutfiles for it, and posted pictures... All with a designer who I would have never started purchasing until they made the first move of giving me something... There are so many cultures where gift-giving is the glue that holds the society together... (this post is getting long and windy - please check these links if you're interested.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatchen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagniappeen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_Japan#Gifts_and_gift-giving
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Post by endial on Nov 5, 2013 17:39:00 GMT -9
For me I don't buy until I have tried if at all possible and most people that offer a freebie even just a tiny hut will let me see their style and if it works well for me. As for everything else... Good Luck
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Post by wyvern on Nov 6, 2013 2:03:56 GMT -9
Couple of thoughts on the marketing/"try before you buy" motif. I find that good, honest, photos of the actual models - that is, not necessarily perfect (because mine won't be either, so it's reassuring to see wobbly cut lines occasionally!) - are at least as useful as free models, and I've bought stuff on that basis previously. Best to show the models in different poses-to-camera as well (so if they have full back art, show it, for instance).
It's probably worth looking over how different people have set up things on OBS, as an example, since that will give ideas for what, and what not, to do. Classic mistakes include using copy & paste text for items in the same range, but which tells the customer nothing at all about the actual figures/models on THIS page, and leaving blank preview files and image boxes on the product page. Some of the latter are likely unavoidable as due to random computer glitches, but it's something to be aware of as a potential problem.
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Post by endial on Nov 7, 2013 6:27:51 GMT -9
Classic mistakes include using copy & paste text for items in the same range, but which tells the customer nothing at all about the actual figures/models on THIS page, and leaving blank preview files and image boxes on the product page. Some of the latter are likely unavoidable as due to random computer glitches, but it's something to be aware of as a potential problem. Your link is not working sir.
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