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Post by rattokan on May 18, 2014 13:15:03 GMT -9
I need to cut some miniatures for which cutfiles do not exist (Imperfect Monks for example). Recently I have been experimenting what the fastest way for creating cutfiles for a page of minis would be, but I am not convinced so far. Maybe others (pblade?) can make some recommendations on this, especially for minis which have a larger safety border on the backside. Here's what I do so far:
1) open the pdf in gimp, delete regmarks and extra text. 2) select all white areas, invert selection and create a new layer whith that selection filled black. 3) delete the lower halfs of the figures. 4) select each row of upper-half-figures, copy and mirror horizontally, then align with the other half (you get it right?) 5) delete dashed cutlines between figures 6) put a black square on every corner of the page (more on that later). 7) export the black image as png 8) also import the artwork as png
9) import the black image in coreldraw (this includes walking down to the mrs' work laptop which has it installed). 10) autotrace the outline and save as dxf.
11) open the artwork png in silhouette studio. 12) open the dxf in silhouette studio. 13) copy/paste the dxf path to the artwork file. 14) resize the path to fit the page using the squares in the corners (i couldnt find a better way to get the dxf into correct scale) 15) See if everything aligns and repaint the dashed scorelines. 16) done!
THAT IS A HELL LOT OF WORK! There must be something simpler, right? I tried doing it in studio only but the tracing seems to produce polylines only which make the cutter go crazy, cutting for an hour or so (not to mention the blade wearing of)
Any hints are highly appreciated.
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Post by Parduz on May 18, 2014 13:34:52 GMT -9
I need to cut some miniatures for which cutfiles do not exist (Imperfect Monks for example). Recently I have been experimenting what the fastest way for creating cutfiles for a page of minis would be, but I am not convinced so far. Maybe others (pblade?) can make some recommendations on this, especially for minis which have a larger safety border on the backside. Here's what I do so far: 1) open the pdf in gimp, delete regmarks and extra text. 2) select all white areas, invert selection and create a new layer whith that selection filled black. 3) delete the lower halfs of the figures. 4) select each row of upper-half-figures, copy and mirror horizontally, then align with the other half (you get it right?) 5) delete dashed cutlines between figures 6) put a black square on every corner of the page (more on that later). 7) export the black image as png 8) also import the artwork as png 9) import the black image in coreldraw (this includes walking down to the mrs' work laptop which has it installed). 10) autotrace the outline and save as dxf. 11) open the artwork png in silhouette studio. 12) open the dxf in silhouette studio. 13) copy/paste the dxf path to the artwork file. 14) resize the path to fit the page using the squares in the corners (i couldnt find a better way to get the dxf into correct scale) 15) See if everything aligns and repaint the dashed scorelines. 16) done! I've done it, but everything in Coreldraw. I've not it handy right now, and my menu commands are all in italian, so i'm sorry but you'll have to find what are yours. What i do is: 1) Import the PDF in Coreldraw (all pages or the one you need) 2) Conver the image in 2 color (you'll end with black silouhettes 3) trace the 2 color image 4) break the resulting curves and modify them by hands (only for the upper part, the one with the less thick border): 4a) remove (automatically or manually) the unvanted nodes: the less, the better for the cutting machine 4b) carefully (check that the shape don't change) divide the nodes needed to close each figure, and drag them producing closed curves (you can set the fill color at the beginning, and see when the curve is closed 'cause it will finally fill 4c) delete any unwanted remaining curve, draw an orizontal line for the fold, and mirror the final shapes on the back side (where the border is thicker) 5) remove the image and export in DXF. The process is not really short, but the time spent on claning the nodes will be gained during cutting time (my cutting machine movement are smooth) and it take very little time to cut a page. I still have to find a solution for 14)... i think that the problem is in Studio, and related to the image (the PNG, not on the DXF). So my suggestion is to always print from studio when everything is aligned,
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Post by Parduz on May 18, 2014 13:41:17 GMT -9
To better explain my poit 4b): i "cut" the curve where there's the folding line, so in the bottom corners of the tab. It's easier to work there 'cause you0ì're just making a rectangle (and sometime i draw one with the same tab size to snap to its nodes). You'll end editing the curve just to make the tab and the feet tips, which usually get messed when you break the nodes there.
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Post by wildagreenbough on May 18, 2014 14:00:54 GMT -9
Um..... to be completely honest I think I'd much prefer to carry on with the peaceful Zen moments of doing my cutting by hand. If I had to do all that to a PDF before I could get a machine to do the cutting I'd end up pulling out my hair in handfuls.
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Post by oldschooldm on May 18, 2014 16:18:53 GMT -9
My approach - save as PNG, open in Studio and trace the fronts by hand using the curve tool (usually less than 50 clicks each), select the traces and use the duplicate/mirror below tool and tweak the alignment for the backs.
Then, I share the files with y'all.
I think of it this way - I get to cut off most of the black and only have to trace (like hand-cutting, without the pressure on my knuckles) once for dozens of people. Others have done it for me, so it's Karma. :-)
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Post by squirmydad on May 18, 2014 20:41:49 GMT -9
If you do create cut-files for some of the Imperfect sets that don't currently have them, like the Monks, be sure to share them so I can update Dryw's Imperfect Gallery. Bonus points if you also take a picture.
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Post by Parduz on May 18, 2014 22:34:42 GMT -9
Um..... to be completely honest I think I'd much prefer to carry on with the peaceful Zen moments of doing my cutting by hand. If I had to do all that to a PDF before I could get a machine to do the cutting I'd end up pulling out my hair in handfuls. As i said elsewhere, it's a matter of skills and taste. To me, cutting and glueing paper models is a real hassle: i hate to do it, and despite trying my best in the end i'll always mess up. Same as for painting plastic miniatures. Instead, it happens rarely that i can't get what i want from a computer
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Post by Brave Adventures on May 21, 2014 21:35:47 GMT -9
I don't have a Silhouette cutting machine, but I want to make cut-files for our sets. Do I have to buy the Silhouette software to do that?
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 22, 2014 1:54:55 GMT -9
Sure don't. The software is free to download and use. Need a beta tester?
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Post by rattokan on May 23, 2014 1:08:21 GMT -9
I don't have a Silhouette cutting machine, but I want to make cut-files for our sets. Do I have to buy the Silhouette software to do that? Keep in mind that you are not allowed to sell the studio files with your product. You can only sell them through the silhouette store. I think selling your product and giving the studio files away for free somewhere else is the way to go. correct me if i'm wrong EDIT: the weird thing is that the license only prohibits "retail" and "reselling", the official argument behind that is: "Because the STUDIO file type is associated with the Silhouette brand, it is important that it not be associated with files that have not been approved and cannot be guaranteed by us." This would also apply to free .studio files... EDIT 2: Judging from an answer that someone else received from silhouette you cannot even do that: "Our company has no concern with individuals giving files away for free so long as it does not incorporate any image that is offered from our company and is not a licensed image to which you do not have legal permission to re-offer. It would need to be a design of your own creation. It also could not be incorporated as a “free “add-bonus for purchasing some other item since such would basically constitute the selling of the file."
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Post by oldschooldm on May 23, 2014 8:46:36 GMT -9
rattokan - You are misinterpreting (the bold text) their answer. People can make cut-files of original content and give them away with their for-sale products all they like. There is no ownership of a file format.
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Post by rattokan on May 23, 2014 10:45:17 GMT -9
I am talking about .studio file format and not the older .gsd file format (which does not have such limitations), just to make things clear People can make cut-files of original content and give them away with their for-sale products all they like. I doubt that. I would interpret the statement as: You are not allowed to sell .studio files except through the silhouette shop, but you are allowed to give them away for free. But giving them away for "free" with something else that you take money for, we do consider cheating and therefore we do not allow it. I do doubt that this one would be legally enforcable in any country except the US but thats what they basically say. I also disagree here. It is debatable what owenership means in that case but there are some facts that effectively mean just that: 1) only silhouette studio is able to create .studio files. 2) when you install silhouette studio you accept their EULA which contains these above mentioned restricitions (you can read it in the help menu if you missed it) 3) the EULA prohibits reverse-engineering the file format which means, there are no .studio files that can be created with other means. I am neither a lawyer nor a native english speaker but I am in the software business and I had two years of learning about software licenses (especially open source stuff) the hard way (including us lawyers). The whole thing has allready been discussed here www.card-making-downloads.com/forum/showthread.php?1858-Not-allowed-to-sell-silhouette-studio-files and it seems that a few people got take down notices from silhouette america. What I would do (just my 50cents): Keep selling your artwork on rpgnow or elsewhere and let somebody else post the .studio files at a place like this forum even if you made them yourself. Or stick with old software that creates gsd files.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 23, 2014 12:15:39 GMT -9
Not that I'm adding anything more than another not-a-lawyer 2¢, but the EULA only prohibits the resale of studio files. It doesn't prohibit the distribution, just the resale. I believe this is a clause to prevent people from competing with their online store as a marketplace for studio files.
The clarification that you quoted I think gives explicit permission for the distribution of studio files as we commonly use them. They cover themselves legally by saying you aren't allowed to distribute studio files that include assets they've made, and you're not allowed to distribute studio files that YOU made if they include assets that you don't have the legal right to include. But, with those exceptions noted, "Our company has no concern with individuals giving files away for free".
Now, maybe you want to press the point with Silhouette. I believe that statement you quoted was the direct result of someone else already pressing the point for clarity.
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Post by rattokan on May 23, 2014 12:35:23 GMT -9
I believe this is a clause to prevent people from competing with their online store as a marketplace for studio files. Yep, vendor lock-in... Yep, this is a reply to somebody who asked explicitly. I am pretty sure that the downloads here on the forum or from i.e. Fatdragon are perfectly ok. I am just not sure about, let's say zipping them up together with the pdf and putting them on rpgnow or drivethru (so far i have only seen gsd files with commercial downloads).
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Post by oldschooldm on May 23, 2014 13:37:38 GMT -9
I am just not sure about, let's say zipping them up together with the pdf and putting them on rpgnow or drivethru (so far i have only seen gsd files with commercial downloads). I only make .studio files and I know for a fact that several vendors here package them with their RPGNow models. I'm also 99% sure that the license I read applies to Silhouette-created content and *resale* thereof. It really makes no sense that the "give away" clause works the way you say - that they say - it works. Otherwise all a vendor would have to do is say "you can have the cutfiles separately, for free, upon request." That would be silly (not that lawyers don't sometimes act silly...)
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Post by Brave Adventures on May 24, 2014 15:24:04 GMT -9
What about SVG files? It seems like those should work with cutting machines, and I think they would be easier to make than studio files. Do you have any experience with SVG files Oldschooldm? Is it something people with automated cutters would be able to use easily?
Edit: I downloaded the free version of Silhouette, but I'm not quite sure what to do from here. Can anyone send me a link to a tutorial? What do I import and how do I get the cut-file to match up with the product PDF? Do I need to trace all the minis by freehand? That seems very tedious.
Ryan
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 24, 2014 16:03:27 GMT -9
You know what's easy to use with an automated cutter? A .studio file. I would imagine most folks won't know what to do with an SVG file, and if you have to provide instructions on how to massage it into something you can print and cut, then no, it's not used easily.
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Post by rattokan on May 25, 2014 11:15:11 GMT -9
Please don't get me wrong, I didnt want to attack anyone. I love my Silhouette Portrait and I am greatfull that so many nice people provide cutfiles with their artwork or for somebody else's. I just read this statement in the EULA when I installed Studio 3 the first time and I started googling on that topic. I came to the conclusion that it was of the same sort of rip-off-nonargument as chipped ink cardridges that just want to "protect you cause evil 3rd party-ink would emidiately destroy your printer". So I just wanted to bring up that topic in case that nobody here had heard about it...
Edit: WTH? This forum is automatically changing/removing bad language from my post...
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Post by squirmydad on May 25, 2014 11:37:52 GMT -9
Yes, I updated the filters to replace swear words with amusing substitutions.
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Post by cowboyleland on May 26, 2014 3:01:27 GMT -9
howdying Basuber-genius doodyhead! That was just a test
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Post by Brave Adventures on May 26, 2014 18:41:54 GMT -9
Okay, I think I've figured out how to make the cutfiles but now I am wondering how to make the files compatible with both letter sized paper and A4 sized paper. Should I just use margins that would work well with either or is there more to it than that?
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Post by squirmydad on May 26, 2014 21:24:16 GMT -9
Yup, the cutting area margins need to be set to fit within either letter and A4 and then it should work fine. I think the ideal cutting area size is about 7.5x10 as that should fit comfortably with both paper sizes.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 27, 2014 4:55:48 GMT -9
I'd really like to know whether the reg marks in the layers I have shared (https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0mwc9arp5yn9yb/reg_mark_layers.zip) are fine. I believe they print out fine without scaling on both Letter and A4 paper, and the associated .studio file will work as-is for either paper.
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Post by Brave Adventures on May 27, 2014 13:31:54 GMT -9
I'd really like to know whether the reg marks in the layers I have shared (https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0mwc9arp5yn9yb/reg_mark_layers.zip) are fine. I believe they print out fine without scaling on both Letter and A4 paper, and the associated .studio file will work as-is for either paper. One thing I noticed with the reg marks you sent me is that they don't automatically line-up with the default reg-marks in silhouette. They are a different size. You don't by any chance know what dimensions they are do you?
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 27, 2014 14:51:38 GMT -9
Off the top of my head, I do not, but that's why I included a sample .studio file - the reg marks are lined up with the PNG layers. They should 'just work' together.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Nov 21, 2014 7:37:42 GMT -9
Thought I'd attach this here, rather than dig up a link to my dropbox account each time I want to share it. reg_mark_layers.zip (14.6 KB) That zip file has a couple PNG files that I often use for layout out my own stuff. The margins will work when printing unscaled onto A4 and Letter sized pages. If you were to design your PDFs with Letter sized pages and keep your graphics in the safe cutting area, it will print and cut fine unscaled on A4 sized paper as well. It's also designed to have a large enough margin at the top so you can have your product or company logo up there without interfering with the cutter. If you really want that extra space back, I'd encourage leaving at least .625" of space on any margin. I've gone as low as .5" on margins. I would NOT recommend using the minimum margins that Silhouette Studio allows. I have both a Cameo and an older SD, and both have had trouble reading registration marks so close to the edges of the page. Note that if you're into using layers, you can include both the older sd reg marks and the newer cameo reg marks in separate layers. If you're using layers, consider being kind and moving unnecessary stuff like branding and other text to its own layer that can be toggled off. If you're not using layers, pick one style of reg mark. Users can either print from Silhouette Studio, fixing up the reg marks there, or they can patch the registration marks by covering over them. The cutting_area.png file isn't meant to be included in your final work. It's a reminder of where it's OK to have graphics. The red area is safe for cutting. The grey areas should have NO graphics in them, or else it might interfere with the registration mark reading process. The Silhouette Studio software is free to download (at least, it was at the time I wrote this), and it's fairly easy to learn how to make cutfiles. If anyone wants help, just ask!
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