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Post by aaron on Jul 7, 2014 20:24:57 GMT -9
Ok so as you have been told and probably re-told by now were in the process of re-tooling the models for T.O. to make them 28mm and more user friendly. It was ultimately a joint decision to do this because it will make T.O. more compatible with other gaming systems and it will make it easier to build and store. all this has lead to a re-strucutre on an epic scale! It would be like if GW decided tp make warhammer 40k at 28mm and had only a few weeks/ moth or so to re-do every model for every army ... soooo ya I'm busy. I am also re doing many of the multi part models so they will be less complex on the smaller scale. Some of them would have been downright impossible at 28mm so this is the first taste of Temporum Oblitus's new look. as with the story the Core of Humanity started it all and I thought it was only fitting that I start with them. here we have half a squad of troop it's the laidies. headed up by the newly re-sized Captain Megan Forester. Tomorrow I get to the men and Commander Dunkin Priest!
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Post by aaron on Jul 8, 2014 17:30:21 GMT -9
ok so now the never before seen core of Humanty Scorpion ATV assautlt vehicle !! I have been planning it for almost 2 years now but I never got around to actually making it. now that it's going to be flat I have it almost finished in one day. everyone knows that I LOVE scorpions .... ok not really I actually HATE them with a passion ! but this fast moving assault vehicle couldn't have any other name. it's super fast for a ground vehicle comes in squads of three and does strafing damage. this buggy is devastating to light and standard troops. though it's not super armored and the driver and gunner are subject to small arms fire. it's really perfect for harassing enemy flanks and forcing troops where you want them but you have to look out for heavy weapons, other vehicles and of coarse flyers as they dominate speed.
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Post by cadia134 on Jul 9, 2014 5:21:49 GMT -9
Will that be a 3d or a 2d model?
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Post by aaron on Jul 9, 2014 5:35:48 GMT -9
right now it's 2d. I am trying to get all my models down to 2d or 2.5d so they can be built easily at 28mm I think the only ones that will continue to be 3d will be the transports and only because they have to actually transport your troops (except the pelican that can transport other vehicles as well) can you imagine trying to make the scorpion as a 3d model at 28mm there would have to be at least 8 pieces that were almost to small to cut and fold that I can think of and there would probably be more that I can't think of until I was designing it. However, I would like to post script all this by saying if there is a large demand to make this 3d then I will find a way.
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Post by sirhelnor on Jul 9, 2014 5:42:42 GMT -9
the scorpion looks fantastic, reminds me of the Brotherhood of Nod buggies from C&C (Tiberian Sun was my very first video game). are you sure you want it to be flat at 28mm? I'm not too experienced with paper models, so I don't know where the size threshold is for transitioning from 2-2.5-3D is, but the model looks like it's going to be at least 6x3, if not 6x4... just seems like it's wanting to be a bit more at that size. (also, that thing would look incredible 3D, my 2 cents ) EDITED: aaron answered cadia134's question before i was done typing...lol. (also, my measurements may be off, I'm using space marines as my 28mm reference size, when I maybe should be using infinity models.... which would mean it's smaller than I'm guessing)
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Post by aaron on Jul 9, 2014 5:57:07 GMT -9
ya Space marines are actually 32mm though they say sometimes it's 28... it's really 32. so the Scorpion is from back to front 150mm long and from the base of the tires to the top of the gun is 80 mm high soooo inches that's hold on .... carry the one... devided by the moon phase .... hold on , hold on I'm thinking !!! so it's roughly 6 inches long by 3.5 iches High. ... It's do able I suppose ... but still there are going to be some fiddly parts for sure.
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Post by cadia134 on Jul 9, 2014 8:12:34 GMT -9
can the small bits be just drawn? Make as much as you can 3d and then draw the small bits in perspective. From the view above it looks like it could be 4 wheels, and a triangle, or pyramid for the nose, a square or cube for the back end, and then maybe the gunner could be a 2d tab inserted into the cube. IF you wanted to break it down further, the drivers section could be another cube, possibly open topped for a 2d driver.
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Post by aaron on Jul 9, 2014 8:17:24 GMT -9
well it's a bit more complex than that .... give me a few more minuts here and I will have a sample of what I'm talking about.
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Post by Vermin King on Jul 9, 2014 8:28:46 GMT -9
I do a lot of vehicle models, so I could probably help you in simplifying the design and still maintaining the look. PM me if you would like some assistance with this (and if you want a beta-builder!)
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Post by aaron on Jul 9, 2014 18:46:01 GMT -9
@vermin King I will PM you I don't have a printer (mine just died so I can't even Alpha test it) ok sirhelnor and cadia134 ... so this is why I wasn't going to make it 3D this is an example of what it would end up looking like. this is just the gun mount in the back and I dint even finish the swivel mount under the gun or the top of the power cell tank or the blue butter leather seat that gently cushions the gunner is heavenly bliss. so if you want to print this up and give it a go I think that you will either encourage me to keep going or decide that flat is best!
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Post by arcticdragongames on Jul 10, 2014 11:46:52 GMT -9
The Scorpion lines are nice. Have you had consideration for a mine laying/launching variant? Even if the mines were on the surface they would delay the pursuers of this specialized hit and run vehicle. It would reduce tactical risk if the last vehicle of could lay mines and/or smoke to cover their movement back to friendly lines.
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Post by aaron on Jul 10, 2014 16:50:36 GMT -9
it sounds good but in the game the only thing faster and more maneuverable than the scorpion would be flying vehicles. there is helicopters , bats and the Pelican though I can't imaging using the pelican and a buggie hunter. It's a huge flying troop transport. The scorpions are fast moving troop harassing light vehicles. the nest step up is a jet that's the mid range vehicle and the Big one for the Core of humanity is a Tank. A big nasty blowing up your base kind of OMG how are we going to kill that thing kind of tank. the other armies have light medium and heave vehicles as well ... I haven't sent you the rules yet?? shame on me.... squirmydad has them (they are pre-Alpha stage at the moment and not at all complete ) but I will send you the link to read through them!
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Post by enpeze on Jul 11, 2014 0:15:20 GMT -9
a question: are your new TO minis now true 28mm (like Pasifilos minis) or rather the more modern 30mm scale? (like okumart, onemonk or GWs which is more a large 30mm) thanks.
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Post by aaron on Jul 11, 2014 4:49:35 GMT -9
well according to the definition that I understand measuring from the bottom of their feet to their eyes, they are 28 mm exactly. some models will be bigger than 28mm but that's only because they are huge but they are scaled at true 28mm when I send them out. Now they may be listed at 30mm because that gives you a wider market of people that buy your products but when I was making them I measured from the bottom of their feet to their eyes at 28mm
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Post by WackyAnne on Jul 12, 2014 8:24:10 GMT -9
well according to the definition that I understand measuring from the bottom of their feet to their eyes, they are 28 mm exactly. some models will be bigger than 28mm but that's only because they are huge but they are scaled at true 28mm when I send them out. Now they may be listed at 30mm because that gives you a wider market of people that buy your products but when I was making them I measured from the bottom of their feet to their eyes at 28mm They match the scale of the Splinterwood, I'm assuming?
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Post by enpeze on Jul 12, 2014 14:34:45 GMT -9
aaron the actual size of the mini from base to toe is only secondary important. Important is the scale in relation to other mini labels. For example GW began its minis with 28mm (unheroic) and now they are 30mm (heroic). (with exceptional well designed and very painting friendly, but unrealistic enlarged features like feet, weapons and heads) This means if you put Warhammer minis from 1995 and 2014 on the same table they are a totally different size (more than 10%) which is (at least for me as graphic designer) from an aesthetically PoV "ugly". Another example Pasifilos minis are "true 28mm" and thats why they are 15% smaller compared to those of onemonk or okumart which I would rate "30mm". The result is that while individually beautiful, the whole scenze looks not very good if I put Pasifilos minis on the same table as the larger classic onemonk minis. It all depends if you want to stay compatible with the minis of other artists or not, I guess.
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Post by squirmydad on Jul 12, 2014 16:45:38 GMT -9
New TO 28mm Core of Humanity trooper with a One Monk Terra Force Medic;
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Post by enpeze on Jul 12, 2014 21:31:31 GMT -9
cool, perfect. Thank you very much for this comparision.
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Post by aaron on Jul 13, 2014 8:06:35 GMT -9
I guess ultimately when I all is said and done, the Splinterwood elves are going to be one faction of several different armies that are apart of a game that is called (right now at least) Awsh, I guess the closest game you could compare it to is GW's WHFB. this being said in the end I am only trying to make my models comparable with themselves. the same with Temporum Oblitus, Though they are comparable to other models in that they are the same size, I don't think they will look exactly the same as anyone else. the reason for this is that like you said they are scaled to 28mm but as different art styles they will look and feel very different from as each artist has a different style. if you were to put my models against Mespers you would see that they are the same size but they couldn't be more different if we tried... which we don't, it's just are styles of art are different. where mine are more functional i.e. make them as fast as I can like gaming models, his are more beautiful like the kind you could frame and put on a wall, I think his work is incredible, but obviously not really compatible with mine. The same could be said for Dave Okum. His stuff is freaking Brilliant but to cartoony to be visually compatible. I could really go on and on here but what the scale to me means, isn't art compatibility, it means terrain compatibility. if you have terrain from Fat Dragon then my models are at 28mm compatible. If you have terrain from any producer that makes 28mm scale then my models will fit through the doors, not look like giants or ants next to the building and will fit in the vehicles/ terrain bits. that's all it really means. When I have more of my games up and running I think you will see that you don't really need visual compatibility as there will be enough armies that you can play just about what ever you need in just about what ever system you want them to be in.... yes even the undead. Goblins are invading the Splinterwoods as the first real oppisition to the Splinterwood elves. soon though there will be many different armies to choose from. I think though that you will be missing out on some really great work by others though if you stick with just one artist. I personally don't really care if it's not super compatible visually I have stuff from just about everyone and I wouldn't trade them LOL Also since Awsh is still in it's inception and I am literately building the game one unit at a time and no rules have even been concepted yet, I am still WIDE open for suggestions so really just make a list of what you would like to see and I will give it serious consideration. that goes not only for enpeze but really anyone. if you look at the map of Awsh it's a HUGE place where just about anything can happen, so before I fill it up (which I will do eventually)toss your two cents in and see what comes out! Also A side note on GW stuff. ok first I am a fan I'm not going to lie ... or at least I used to be. the new stuff is kinda ...'meh it's not horrible but it's just lacking any sense of style and every thing just kind of looks like a different colored brick. especially the space marines and the new orks ... their ok ... not horrible as I said. but that being said I have some friends (Brian the guy who started all of this being one of them) they make scaled sets for movies, so getting it right is very important for them and they all told me that GW fantasy and 40k is scaled at 32 mm though they are horribly inconsistent as all their vehicles are scaled much smaller. so the troops are 32mm and the transports are 27mm or some such.... I don't remember the actual measurements but the Troops are all 32mm. which makes their old stuff at 28mm look a bit wonky. Also they have gone through several artist since they started which is why the daemonetts have gone from bug women with crab claws to ultra sexy with to many breasts and now to more hag looking brick women. same for the Dark elf witches and what not it all depends on the artist who's making the models and their own individual style. ok so my last thoughts on this before I shut up for a while because I feel like i'm rambling on a bit... if you'r (meaning anyone ) looking to build a GW wood elf army out of my Splinterwood elves it's probably not going to happen. They do have some similarities but they are also very different and I did that on purpose for lots of reasons that I won't go into here, though many should be obvious. The Splinterwoods don't have the same levels of regimentation that the wood elves do. they have what?, like 5 solid units of troop types and two of them are skirmishers. my whole army will be different in that it will actually follow a narrative and make sense LOL seriously though, I will have more units and more diversity in the Splinterwoods and the whole army will be like skirmishers so they will have a very loose strangely organic feel to them. (for those of you who don't know Skirmishing units don't have any Squad coherency rules they can wander around like interdependent charicters) This will not be the same for any other army. it's the Strength and liability of the Splinterwood elves.
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Post by arcticdragongames on Jul 13, 2014 10:03:12 GMT -9
Aaron, I really the skirmisher emphasis of the Splinterwooders.
The skirmisher emphasis is very compatible with the storyline I developed and used for many years with my Wood Elves and their forest brethren. They were primarily an on call voluntary militia who fought to defend the forest and there were a few full time unit types that consisted of troops that did regular hitches before going back into the militia. The full time units needed to maintain the highest readiness and were constantly on patrol, either on foot or mounted.
I am another GW expat, so I am looking for other systems to use my Wood Elves in. The Elves in my game, "Fantasy Fighters: Shapechangers", will live in the ayries and the high mountains with their feathered friends. The Humans will be the People of the Forest where their wolf and bear compatriots live. It was painful for me to resettle the Wood Elves but I really wanted the Humans to have a more distinct racial characteristic and corresponding habitat. In most fantasy systems the humans are usually just the "Jacks (and Jills) of all trades" and lack distinct strengths and weaknesses. In my system they will be ferocious defenders of the forests.
Hmmm, I think I should add the above to my post on the Fantasy Fighters. Not sure if anyone is interested in the method to my madness but I am putting a lot of emphasis on building those races from the bottom up and making them a good fit for their preferred habitat, economic activities and overall ways of life. Above all they will be distinct, Elves won't just be skinny Humans with good reflexes, Humans won't just be wannabe Dwarf blacksmiths, etc. Woops, I am drifting into threadjacking territory, time to flex the forward units back to the HQ.
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Post by aaron on Jul 13, 2014 12:35:58 GMT -9
LOL right well all this kind of apply to Temporum oblitus ... ok not really at all but it's still good information to have LOL
their are lots of forests in the mountains.... maybe they live there? The Splinterwoods only have three "cities" even then they would be hard pressed to tell where the city ended and the "true forest" began. all the rest of the towns and villages of the Splinterwood elves you would walk through the middle of downtown and not be able to recognize that you were in a town. their are some full time military units. the knights, vigilant and the Splinter section are full time military gigs but all the rest of them are not "traditional military" the Splinter Spears are more like a fraternity of martial fighters bent on protecting the Splinterwoods and the Archers are a Sorority of the same, more like a specialized mercenary groups. everything else is just militia on an as needed basis. The Volpine only work for the Queen though they take the kings suggestion they don't really have to listen to him as they only have a life long contract with the queen. the rest of the Splinter-woods is made up of the creatures and things that live there. sometimes they are friendly with the elves and some times they arn't. goblins aren't friendly with anyone. So when you are fighting the Splinterwood elves you are really fighting the whole of the Splinterwoods. this is the source of their biggest strength and greatest weakness. when the forest attacks or defends in all it's splendor then they are unstoppable (a true force of nature )however they are all small groups of defenders with the same goal so they don't have the military proficiency of other armies. I.e. there is no one leader guiding everything it's really just a bunch of elves and other creatures defending their home land. so they break down on teh communication and organisation levels. this is their one true weakness and it's very possible to out maneuver them. but this belongs in the Splinterwood section and not here in the Temporum Oblitus Updates .... soooo enough of this and moving on to the next units for T.O. .....
Did anyone try to put together the gunner?? I am still debating the 3Dness of the Scorpion.
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Post by aaron on Jul 17, 2014 5:53:59 GMT -9
OK so I spent some time last night messing around with the scorpion gunner. now before I talk about the experience let me just say that I would consider myself an advanced paper crafter. I have made and even designed some pretty complex stuff some with no instructions, but last night trying to build my own gunner was probably the hardest thing I have ever done and let me tell you why ... at 28mm it's just to much detail and to small! there are part that require multiple tweezers and a magnifying glass to really be effective. the sad part is if I just loose the detail (which I tried )it just looks boring , like a Volvo. so really to get the level of detail I want at the size I need I think the scorpion is going to stay a flat..... any one else want to give it a go? here we see some goblins holding up the gun mount in a more finishd look at the 3d vertion again this thing was ULTRA fiddly but I think it's turning out a little better than I expected .... that being said I won't be making a 3d models of the scorpion unless I can really find some way to stream line this and make it TONS easier... but still keep it looking cool The goblins are their for support LOL latterly and they are helping with the scale of the thing
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Post by aaron on Jul 17, 2014 17:26:34 GMT -9
ok so here's the final build , now remember it's not printed on Photo paper and it was the last print my printer will ever make... I am in the market for a new one but untill I get some more upfront capital my printing days are over LOL ok so lets talk wonky yes their are some bits that are just not right like: #3 the base isn't big enough around so had to compensate with a piece of scrap paper. #5 is missing it's top and the connecting hose on the helmet not only has nothing to connect to but it's got to be able to compensate for where the body is placed ... probably the hardest part of the hole thing was to put the body of the gunner in place. all in all not completely horrible for an Alpha build on a crappy print job (I stand by what I said earlier though it's the hardest build I have ever had) but if I'm going to make the scorpion a 3D model then I will definitely need to streamline the process and make it MUCH easier!! so here it is... I want to hear from you guys sirhelnor, cadia134, enpeze squirmydad would you build this if it were a little less fiddly? it's still going to be an advanced model no doubt about it.
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Post by sirhelnor on Jul 18, 2014 5:11:05 GMT -9
aaron I think that the gunner section may be a bit difficult, both to design and assemble, now that we're looking at it in 3d (you did a fantastic job)... I know I'd have a real hard time with it anyway. I think cadia134 may have been on to something though, you could always do the bulky parts like the main body in 3d, and leave the figures like the driver and the gunner as 2d inserts. I haven't seen many models that do this, so I'm not sure how it would look can the small bits be just drawn? Make as much as you can 3d and then draw the small bits in perspective. From the view above it looks like it could be 4 wheels, and a triangle, or pyramid for the nose, a square or cube for the back end, and then maybe the gunner could be a 2d tab inserted into the cube. IF you wanted to break it down further, the drivers section could be another cube, possibly open topped for a 2d driver. as an aside, I used the side view of the test image to do a quick mock-up of the 2d scorpion (just mirroring the sides), I can post it with your permission, unfortunately I don't own a printer to try it out myself (the university has wonderful laser printers available, but only prints on bond... no cardstock)
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Post by aaron on Jul 18, 2014 5:43:21 GMT -9
sirhelnor what you and cadia134 are talking about is called 2.5D it means that their are some 3D elements to the model but it's mostly flat like my Splinterwood Dragon. it's mostly flat but the legs. wings and rider are separate this makes it 2.5D and much easier to assemble than a full 3D model would be. the main body of the vehicle is actually curved and rounded ... this makes for a very difficult build. not that it can't be done like the gunner it can be done it's just going to make this model very complex. I use a lot of curved lines in my designs because it just makes the models look cooler. (IMO) I think strait lines are kind of static and boring. because of this my models get really complicated really fast. I could make them all blocky to match the curve but then it would look like something from mine craft and that's just not cool.... or is it? hummmmm mine craft army ...... *walks away scratching his head and muttering*
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Post by aaron on Jul 18, 2014 13:30:15 GMT -9
ok the Core of Humanity is pretty slick willy with their gear and they have some crazy nasty stuff but the biggest and meanest of all their gear is the Foe-hammer tank. Here is a sneak peek at what will be a 2.5D 28mm model of the Foe-hammer. it's incomplete just yet but I thought you guys might like to see it and maybe make some suggestions. it has 3 independent strafing weapons and of coarse the huge and deadly accurate pulse cannon which is capable of dealing out 2 solid structure points of damage each turn. so for all those of you who have seen the rules your correct in thinking that this is really a siege weapon, a fort breaker if you will. In Temporum Oblitus two strafing weapons shooting at the same target can do one point of structure damage... soooo that means that in one turn the Foe-hammer can drop down 3.5 points of Structure damage so by turn two it can cause 7 points of structure damage and in 4 turns (if it lives long enough to do this ) it will drop your big fortress killing everyone inside and around it for up to 5 inches. The Foe-hammer has 3 structure points it's self so it will take some pretty massive amounts of damage ... so your thinking what's the weakness?? snipers. they can pop the driver and gunners. it will take some time to drop them but it can be done. also because this is heavy tank it's slow moving only 3 inches each turn so it's not going to win any marathons but with this kind of firepower it really doesn't need to.
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Post by squirmydad on Jul 18, 2014 13:45:39 GMT -9
Hey Aaron, like I said elsewhere I've been under the weather this week and didn't have enough brain-power to attemp the Scorpion. Looking at your build pictures though I can see how some pieces can be simplified, if I have enough brains this weekend I'll see if I can mock it up for you.
The Foe Hammer actually looks like like an easier 3d model build, mainly due to it's size.
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Post by aaron on Jul 18, 2014 14:57:21 GMT -9
Hey Aaron, like I said elsewhere I've been under the weather this week and didn't have enough brain-power to attemp the Scorpion. Looking at your build pictures though I can see how some pieces can be simplified, if I have enough brains this weekend I'll see if I can mock it up for you. The Foe Hammer actually looks like like an easier 3d model build, mainly due to it's size. that and I was thinking about making it into a 3D ish model when I designed it so it's all blocky with very few curves.
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Post by Vermin King on Jul 20, 2014 15:48:01 GMT -9
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Post by wildagreenbough on Jul 20, 2014 17:03:36 GMT -9
Cool, - I used to own an 'A' model Bedford when I was doing the earth mother thing being a small holder back when my children were small.
Sorry about the thread hi-jack
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