|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 8, 2009 3:23:51 GMT -9
I hadn't delved further into this, but noticed my e-mail from Paizo saying about their not selling WotC PDFs anymore.
The two of you seem to have summed up both the situation and my feelings on the matter pretty well. On the whole, I don't really give a monkey's, as I haven't played D&D in years (I can't remember if it was 3e or 3.5e, but either way, it must be at least six or seven years now). It was a lot of fun.
But it's difficult to justify spending all that dough on the rules, especially if you haven't had the opportunity to 'try before you buy'. And as Abaddon points out, nowadays, there's so many rulesets avilable from independent publishers, many of them just as good as D&D (if not better), and most of them a lot cheaper (if not free).
It's surely not news to them that a few people will fileshare their PDFs. I can't think why they're pulling their stuff now; frankly if any damage has been done, it's too late to undo it, and odds are they're hurting themselves more with the bad publicity of their own actions than the 'pirates' could ever inflict.
|
|
|
Post by abaddonwormwood on Apr 8, 2009 3:55:55 GMT -9
I feel that if the product was as good as it could be people would be a lot more proud in owning it out right - filesharing will always happen but if you have the masses chomping at the bit for the next release because it's just so good I feel that people would stand up to be counted in paying for it. For example I buy WWG products & Jim's not because they are at a price point but I am proud to own them.
D&D... I own but Meh.
Song of Blade and Heroes - Oh Yea Baby!
Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 4:30:06 GMT -9
Does WOTC even know what to do with D&D any more? Did WotC EVER know what to do with D&D? It's a cinch Hasbro never has. Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 4:42:42 GMT -9
A few years back I started teaching Writing to a bunch of seventh graders. One of the first things I learned was how much language has changed since I was their age. When you ask a classroom full of prepubescent girls if they've ever worn "thongs", which used to mean "flip-flop sandals", you get a whole different response than you might expect (not that I asked that question, it was one of the other teachers). So, LAoW, what does "Meh" mean in this context? Thanks! (I was just tempted to type "Thanx!") Hv fn! Stv
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 8, 2009 4:50:23 GMT -9
I wasn't aware it had more than one potential meaning, myself.
"Meh" is a general purpose, non-committal or unenthusiastic comment. In this case, I get that he bought the books, but could quite cheerfully live without them.
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 8:22:35 GMT -9
Thanks! I wasn't aware it had more than one potential meaning, myself. To illustrate the point about how language changes, Aestelon, I wasn't aware that "Meh" had any potential meaning at all, much less more than one!?! By the way, is the capitalization of "Meh" systemic or idiosyncratic? You'd be amazed how long it took me to find out what "pwned" means. Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 8, 2009 8:52:34 GMT -9
Personally, I'd only capitalise it at the beginning of a sentence. But it's actually pretty much onomatopoeia rather than a proper word - it's just become much more common to actually type it in times of ambivalence. What about "pwnz0rd"?
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 8:55:06 GMT -9
What about "pwnz0rd"? You got me by the short hairs!?! Have fun! Steve P.S. - Here's a guess about "pwnzOrd": does it mean "surrender or die"? wuz I anywhere CLOSE even?
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 8, 2009 10:52:23 GMT -9
"Pwnz0rd" is exactly the same as "pwned", or "owned".
You lose, n00b. You has been pwnz0rd. ;D
I do find it amusing how many new languages the internet has fostered, even if they are essentially versions of pigdin English.
|
|
|
Post by Floyd on Apr 8, 2009 11:53:53 GMT -9
I suspect 'pwned' & 'pr0n' became commonly acceptable *"leet speak" from back in the Doom, Quake, Quake2, UT FPS (First person shooter) days. 'pwned' is just a common misspelling, or probably more correctly mistyping (ie. hitting the wrong key in the heat of battle... P is awfully close to the letter O. 'pr0n' - transposed 'r' and 'o'. Eventually became a '0 - zero'.. and add to the growing list of computer slang. And expounded upon later to 'Pwnz0rd' or 0\/\/|\|z0r! and probably 10 more I don't know about. Also, a way to keep their intended message off the search engines. n00b, newbie - new player - novice... phonetically spelled. Eventually changed to 0hs to zeros. Examples of Leet Speak: 533x ) 4 ) = Geek Dad 1337, l33t = leet * Leet Speak (Elite Speak) is a keyboard only language since it really cannot be handwritten, unless of course you write just like the common font seen on most computers. Here is a better explanation than I have time to write at the moment. And has a common vocabulary at the bottom. Woot! oops w00t! ~Floyd ps. I find that it has a way of rubbing off on a person a little. As I have incorporated quite a few of those into my everyday speak and computer talk. Much like the Nadsat speak I picked up (and never let down) from the novel A Clockwork Orange. It has that sort of r hymey, sing-songy, word play feel. Viddy well me broth-ahs, viddy well.
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 8, 2009 12:30:41 GMT -9
ps. I find that it has a way of rubbing off on a person a little. As I have incorporated quite a few of those into my everyday speak and computer talk. Much like the Nadsat speak I picked up (and never let down) from the novel A Clockwork Orange. It has that sort of r hymey, sing-songy, word play feel. Viddy well me broth-ahs, viddy well. A little. Yeah, right. Such words as pwnz0rd and w00t (and indeed pr0n) are all common spoken words in our own household. And I think most of is the missus' fault; she has a way of screwing up my own vocabulary...
|
|
|
Post by abaddonwormwood on Apr 8, 2009 12:49:19 GMT -9
The funny thing is that all of the examples above I never use... other than Meh as it captures the spirit (or lack of ) in those three little letters, nice.
I think one of the funniest moments (in shock funny) was playing on-line Left 4 Dead where one of the other players said "LoL'ed" ..... what the howdy! You laugh in life but in text you might lol as it is hard to give expression to b&w text fast. To say it..... man the poor soul.
Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 8, 2009 14:25:03 GMT -9
Actually, we do that too.
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 17:12:37 GMT -9
I find this quite fascinating! I spent four years on the USS POGY SSN 647, a nuclear submarine. A submarine crew spends most of its time as a closed society, and each one develops its own dialect. I could say stuff to you guys that would curl your hair, if you could only understand what I was saying. I used to be able to tell what boat a guy was off of by the way he spoke.
Have fun! Steve
P.S. - We would also entertain ourselves by having contests where we would see who could make the other guy throw up first! I usually won. That was before I discovered D&D. This was a skill I found useful in teaching seventh graders!
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 8, 2009 17:21:04 GMT -9
Aren't there rules against making eleven-year-olds throw up?
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 17:27:32 GMT -9
Aren't there rules against making eleven-year-olds throw up? Not at the school where I was teaching. I had a heart, though. I allowed a couple of the more squeamish girls to go outside and breath cold air (it was December). Besides, he was 12, not 11 ;D Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 17:29:41 GMT -9
It was astonishing how few students I had to send to the Headmaster's office.
Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 8, 2009 18:55:44 GMT -9
I figure, by the time they reach seventh grade, they need to start learning life ain't all it's cracked up to be in grade school Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by Craig Cartmell on Apr 9, 2009 12:38:51 GMT -9
Well Steve I now know why I like you. I was on HMS Repulse through the late seventies and early eighties. Subby's rule the waves
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 9, 2009 18:01:02 GMT -9
SUBMARINES ONCE!
SUBMARINES TWICE!
HOLY JUMPIN THINGY THINGY!
WE GO UP AND WE GO DOWN!
WE DON'T EVEN THINGY AROUND!
Have fun, don't get pwnthingythingyed, or however you say it! Steve
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 9, 2009 18:07:32 GMT -9
Have fun, don't get pwnthingythingyed, or however you say it! Steve Pwnz0rd. Pronounced "pone-zord". ;D
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 12, 2009 14:04:15 GMT -9
Remember earlier in the thread I mentioned No Dice, but didn't know anything about it? Yesterday was the preview game I mentioned, and it was enormous fun. I didn't actually sign anything resembling an NDA (unless there was something I missed on my character sheet; I did put my name on that), but since there was talk of such early on, I think it'd be rude to reveal too much too early. I've just fired off an e-mail to Leo to check what he does and doesn't want me to mention, and I'll give you as much of an overview as I can once I get a reply.
|
|
|
Post by silentsquirrel on Apr 13, 2009 2:28:27 GMT -9
Remember earlier in the thread I mentioned No Dice, but didn't know anything about it? Yesterday was the preview game I mentioned, and it was enormous fun. I didn't actually sign anything resembling an NDA (unless there was something I missed on my character sheet; I did put my name on that), but since there was talk of such early on, I think it'd be rude to reveal too much too early. I've just fired off an e-mail to Leo to check what he does and doesn't want me to mention, and I'll give you as much of an overview as I can once I get a reply. Awesome, thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Aestelon on Apr 13, 2009 8:00:23 GMT -9
Leo got back to me, and turns out they're not being too secretive except about the specifics of the game settings they're developing.
In answer to your previous question, Squirrel, the basic point of No Dice seems to be that yes, you're probably going to want something to help determine random events, and yes, you can use dice for that. But there are plenty of other things that can do as good a job of it, if not better. The No Dice developers have a strong preference for standard playing cards, and when you actually get down to playing a game, it's easy to see why.
The game was a steampunk martial arts setting, taking place on a zeppelin, and with pirates, which we thought was awesome from the get-go. Seven players lounged around the living room, on sofas and camp chairs, and sprawled out on bean bags, with several packs of cards between us. The missus and I were the only two n00bs at the time (to the system, rather than to roleplaying in general).
When 'rolling' up our characters and during roleplay, we used the suits of the cards to establish the various areas of our personalities (creativity, practicality, intellect and emotion), and how they affected us mentally, physically and spiritually; in combat, the suits represented different types of attacks we would make (kicks, punches, full-body attacks and reactive attacks).
When drawing a card to make a test, the number on the face would act as your 'die roll' and the suit would serve as a modifier. If the card was 'on suit' (that is, the suit matched your character's 'favoured' suit, or that of the attack style you were using), you'd gain a bonus, if it was 'off suit' (from the suit below your favoured one on the character sheet) you'd suffer a penalty. Either of the other suits you'd use the unmodified value (as well as any of you character's natural modifiers) for your roll. It all seemed fairly confusing at first when it was being explained to us, but after a quick demo combat and a few minutes of roleplay we were right up to speed and having a whale of a time.
In addition, the cards helped the GM in building his story. If we faced three mooks in combat, he'd draw three cards, hold them in front of him next to each other, and as well as telling him how strong they looked in that turn (giving him our 'to hit' values), he'd also use the suits to help him describe more specifically what they appeared to be up to (for instance a 9 of Clubs might be looking pretty confident and lunging in for a punch, while a 3 of Diamonds would be looking quite worried and hanging back to see what you're going to do first).
All in all, it was brilliant fun, and surprisingly easy once we got our heads around it.
I'd recommend having a listen to the podcasts available on the website; I haven't had a chance to listen to them yet, but apparently they actually give a pretty good idea of what to expect, as well as a report of sorts on their first preview game.
|
|
|
Post by abaddonwormwood on Apr 13, 2009 11:33:31 GMT -9
IT must be a group mind thing happening as this it the third or fourth card based system I have read about in the past two weeks - admittly the others were wargamed based but a system is a system.
I would rather game with cards over dice these days at the moment. I think walking into GW the other day to get the demo of War of the Ring really killed the dice rolling for me.... buckets of dice EVERYWHERE.
Love my Dice but I have to say that cards and using the suites and colours always adds so much flavour.
Lord Abaddon of Wormwood
|
|
|
Post by silentsquirrel on Apr 14, 2009 3:00:28 GMT -9
IT must be a group mind thing happening as this it the third or fourth card based system I have read about in the past two weeks - admittly the others were wargamed based but a system is a system. I would rather game with cards over dice these days at the moment. I think walking into GW the other day to get the demo of War of the Ring really killed the dice rolling for me.... buckets of dice EVERYWHERE. Love my Dice but I have to say that cards and using the suites and colours always adds so much flavour. Lord Abaddon of Wormwood There's something fun about playing cards. I don't play poker (just Cribbage!) but I love the tactile feel of cards, so seeing them used as a randomizer in an RPG sounds cool to me. I've never seen them used as the sole randomizer in an RPG except in the old SAGA games from TSR back in the day, but several game systems have used them for augmentation. Deadlands (the original) and Two-Fisted Tales come to mind immediately.
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 14, 2009 3:29:50 GMT -9
If I remember right, The Sword and the Flame was the first game to use playing cards. It was a 15mm 19th century colonial miniatures game. It used dice for resolution, but a pack of playing cards for sequencing/activation.
Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by kane on Apr 14, 2009 6:15:52 GMT -9
It would not even be all that difficult to replace die rolls in ANY game with random card draws, provided one had the necessary deck size. Anything from 1-10 sided can be easily represented. 20 is just a matter of picking one suite for 1-10 and a second suite for 11-20. Percentile would work the same way with one suite for the 10s and one for the 1s. You could also represent an odd number of die faces that are hard (if not impossible) to find dice for.
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 14, 2009 8:47:29 GMT -9
Just be sure to replace the drawn card back in the deck each time. Otherwise, it makes for a whole different strategy for playing the odds.
Sometimes when I run a skirmish game, I make a deck of cards (by cutting 3X5 cards in half and writing names on them) to sequence the units. I put two cards in the deck for each unit. After shuffling the deck, I draw the cards one at a time to activate the units. I go through the whole deck before reshuffling. It makes for an interesting strategic dynamic, keeping track of who has and who hasn't moved, and having the uncertainty of two cards in the deck for each unit. Sometimes, a unit will get two moves in a row.
Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Apr 14, 2009 8:51:04 GMT -9
I've also considered coming up with a lottery style card system to replicate the course of a large battle, when we're only interested in how a single character, or small party of adventurers fares in the encounter.
Have fun! Steve
|
|