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Post by aaron on Nov 11, 2014 12:41:32 GMT -9
ok I'm going to try something, and see how well it works...
Jordan Hawthorne ,Andrew Wylie, and Fabio Calzolari among others have been asking for one artist to do matching enemies for a long time now... though I think they are primarily focused on real life stuff (i.e. WWII models ) I don't do that kind of stuff I stick with fantasy but ~... this is a request thread ! If you want a fantasy match up and like my art style then make a list of the skirmishing units you would like to see dukeing it out and though I don't have tons of time at the moment when I get spare time I will try and hammer out the match ups you guys list here....
so make a list of the pairs of units you would like to see going at it and will draw them. Also if any other developers would like to make the match ups I invite you to do so!
Ready! set!
GO!
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Post by Parduz on Nov 11, 2014 13:52:20 GMT -9
...which is you friendly Parduz, anyway
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Post by Parduz on Nov 11, 2014 14:18:49 GMT -9
About the topic: I said once (i can't remember the post, it was here in the forum, when Labrat and Nik were owning OneMonk) that i'd like to buy paper miniatures sets like if i was buying toy soldiers boxes. So, if a see a "Dwarf infantry" set (just to make an example) i'd like to find at least a "Orc infantry" set. And then i'll hope to have also an "elf infantry" and a "Undead infantry"... if i can have 3 or 4 "equivalent" sets, i can play with 3 or 4 players, or have the opportunity to try the same ruleset with different figures (so stats and abilities) and with the same drawing style also. One day the artist hopefully will make the Cavalry sets for the four races, and so i will expand my army. This "vision" is clearly oriented toward miniature play (and not RPGs: i can use RPG "Heroes" figures as leaders or personalities for the related armies)... This is my wish. The reality is that - on that topic i can't remember, the majority of this comunity was not agreeing with me as the best "way to go", preferring full sets and not caring about having opponents from the same artist. - i can see how this is "limiting" the artist freedom to create. I imagine him being in the mood for dwarfes and not for elves, and so he keep having fun drawing the whole dwarf army.
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Post by aaron on Nov 11, 2014 15:10:39 GMT -9
right well eventually with Splinterwoods I will have enough units of every type to make an army of everything but for now Just smaller units, I will try to do match ups so you want
Dwarf infantry vrs. Orc infantry ? Elf infantry vrs. Undead?
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 11, 2014 15:17:04 GMT -9
It looks to me like you could even up the Splinterwood Elves vs Goblins by adding some "Goblin Soldiers" to back up the "Spears" and some "Goblin Cavalry."
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Post by aaron on Nov 11, 2014 18:33:27 GMT -9
that is precisely what I was doing when I stopped all production on Splinterwoods and started gearing up Temporum Oblitus for my fate filled Kickstarter! You know Coyboy you and I think almost exactly alike eccept you actually have good ideas ... besides that we think almost identical it's scary! I think of all the stuff I have done so far the Ickthus was and is my favorite. I just love drawing them... sadly they met with SUPER lack luster enthusiasm, in fact I think the best public comment I got on them was and I quote "nice skaven " oh well they can't all be golden I will finish them up though and I will play them !! they will be my favorite army the Ickthus! and Ickthus shall rule the world!! ok working on dwarves and Orcs !! sample so far
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 11, 2014 18:59:29 GMT -9
I was expecting goblin cavalry to involve wolves but those spiny tonged frog/lizards look awesome.
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Post by Parduz on Nov 12, 2014 0:30:30 GMT -9
so you want Dwarf infantry vrs. Orc infantry ? Elf infantry vrs. Undead? Not necessarly... it was an example. My wish is to be able to pick equivalent "types" of troops and put them one against the other. So, if infantry is the first troop type to go, then yes, pls build < put any race here> Infantry before switching to (as example) cavalry.
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Post by aaron on Nov 12, 2014 3:35:41 GMT -9
I called them Grima Toads. they are big poisons and cranky! perfect for goblins. and the only reason they don't eat the goblins is that goblins taste really bad. Parduz I hear what your saying but for the sake of this thread I want people to come up with their dream match ups. it will help me and maybe other creators to focus on an end goal rather than just what ever I feel like when ever I feel like it. If I can't release the Dwarves until I finish the Orcs to go with them then I do both better and faster also when I release them you have more to choose from. also I can do things like have an Orc standing on a dead Dwarf and have a Dwarf Hammering an Orc in the face or something like that just to personalize the match up.
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 12, 2014 5:17:53 GMT -9
I think the idea of matchups is a good one, but even good ideas can be taken too far. For example; if you are working on dwarves right now I would release them as soon as they are ready. Some people want dwarves RIGHT NOW and might by somebody else's before yours come out. Also some people might be interested in a Dwarf vs Goblin match up or even a Dwarf vs Elf battle and there is no reason to go without their money while you draw orcs. Dave Graffam says he gets a small bump in some older models whenever he releases a new model. You could release your dwarves with the banners "New foes for your Splinterwood Goblins" and "Coming Soon: Orcs" This way you get a bit of money trickling in while you work on the orcs and then a bump on everything when you release "Orcs; new foes for the armies of Splinterwood" The matchup I would like to see is Knights in shining armour vs Undead (including Vampires) & Lycanthops. This is mostly for a role playing campaign I've been dreaming about, but hey, it could be a cool skirmish too. Edit (afterthought): Actually, I would suggest the Goblin Soldiers and Goblin Cavalry be released first, because the people who bought your Elves and the other Goblins are practically guaranteed to by those sets, and you need the Goblin Soldiers to make the Dwarf Soldiers immediately useful. Then Dwarves vs Orc, Then Humans vs Undead (or whatever) and then circle back for Dwarf Cavalry, Orc Cavalry etc.
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Post by gothique on Nov 12, 2014 5:51:08 GMT -9
Steampunk sets with opposing units of a similar type. British and German infantry for example, with a page of generic adventurers included.
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Post by aaron on Nov 12, 2014 6:19:14 GMT -9
I was planning on doing them both at the same time and releasing them as separate sets ... so you can mix and match them. If people are requesting certain match ups then I know what people want vers making an Army of Ickthus which no one be me seems to be interested in. Also by releasing sets of units rather than full armies then I don't spend tons of time making stuff no one wants. Like some of my Splinterwood elves sell really well and some of them don't sell hardly at all and interestingly enough it's not the ones you might think ... at least that's how it works for me anyway. Of course advertising has always been my bane, The other issue I have,and is seemingly unrelated is OBS. *caution beginner level whining ahead * They take over a week to release anything and putting together the product page is an absolute nightmare. Even after I have submitted all the parts and pieces, I'm not sure if their going to post it. I don't understand their vetting process and why it take so long? Also their should be something telling me that it's posting just be patient, they don't even have that. So I submit something and they get to it when they feel like it and some times they don't ever post it. Like my Netel Bats ... I never sold any of them because they got kicked out of the Obs system and I haven't had time to go back and figure out why. So doing match ups would hopefully get me sales right off the bat. I can quickly upload two units that people want they would come out at the same time. *caution mid level to advanced whining ahead * There is a Ton of work on the back end that I totally took for granted because squirmydad was doing it all for me. Now that I am doing it I have to say, I hate it and I think OBS should really find some way to stream line the process. But then they are all about selling gaming systems and books (now trading card) not so much on the paper minis. Also OBS does lots to pull in the RPG crowds but very little to attract the TTWG folks (Table Top War Gaming )so people are looking for systems and single RPG models which is why Dave Oakum does so well, he caters to those folks (that and his stuff is amazing ! ) so I think creating match ups will go a long way to bringing in the TTWG groups ... am I wrong .... again ?
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Post by aaron on Nov 12, 2014 10:50:10 GMT -9
2 of 10 so far were at Dwarves vrs Orcs Elves vers Undead Empire Knights vrs Vampire count Steam Punk British vrs Steam Punk Germans (though I don't really do this kind of thing I can take a shot at it ... )
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Post by migibb on Nov 12, 2014 11:04:37 GMT -9
Ducks vs baboons!!!!!!! (Or is that a purely Gloranthan in-joke?) ;O)
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Post by aaron on Nov 12, 2014 11:09:54 GMT -9
wait? I thought there were duck people in Glorantha ? didn't they worship a white bear? budump cha!
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Post by migibb on Nov 12, 2014 11:18:23 GMT -9
There are ducks in Glorantha - there are also giant spear-wielding, desert-living baboons... And a now-infamous convention scenario pits one group of PCs (as Saratarite rebel ducks) against another group of PC baboons (who have been press-ganged into the oppressive, invading Lunar army) to much comic effect. One of the funniest games I have ever played in.
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Post by arcticdragongames on Nov 12, 2014 11:38:38 GMT -9
2 of 10 so far were at Dwarves vrs Orcs Elves vers Undead Empire Knights vrs Vampire count Steam Punk British vrs Steam Punk Germans (though I don't really do this kind of thing I can take a shot at it ... ) Another screen saver, awesome!
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Post by Parduz on Nov 12, 2014 15:28:12 GMT -9
Parduz I hear what your saying but for the sake of this thread I want people to come up with their dream match ups. Ok, then. Here's my list of wishes (complete, not just related to you so you may pick what you like more and other artist may think about it ) Fantasy armies:Dwarves vs Orks, Elfs vs Goblins, Humans vs Undead (then by type of troops: infantry, then mounted, then scouts, then heavy/piked foot soldiers, then big monster/mounts, flying, etc) These races will make a "universal" playing set: you can put just any race against another, since each race is paired Historical:Romans vs .... rest of the world? (seriously, there's someone they did'nt fight? So Gauls, Greeks, Carthag...Cartag.. you got it, Bretons, germans...) This would need to be historical accurate about weapons, armors etcModern:Hi-tech/high trained troops vs insurgents, SWAT-like vs terrorist (need civilians and hostages as complement) It was already discussed about the ethic aspect of this genre, i'm not arguing about that. I'd just like play a tabletop version of Ghost Recon, or a scenario like Black Hawk Down, or a Die Hard inspired game.
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Post by mesper on Nov 12, 2014 17:56:57 GMT -9
<...> My wish is to be able to pick equivalent "types" of troops and put them one against the other. So, if infantry is the first troop type to go, then yes, pls build < put any race here> Infantry before switching to (as example) cavalry. +Here's my list of wishes (complete, not just related to you so you may pick what you like more and other artist may think about it;) Fantasy armies:Dwarves vs Orks, Elfs vs Goblins, Humans vs Undead (then by type of troops: infantry, then mounted, then scouts, then heavy/piked foot soldiers, then big monster/mounts, flying, etc) These races will make a "universal" playing set: you can put just any race against another, since each race is paired Historical:Romans vs .... rest of the world? (seriously, there's someone they did'nt fight? So Gauls, Greeks, Carthag...Cartag.. you got it, Bretons, germans...) This would need to be historical accurate about weapons, armors etcModern:Hi-tech/high trained troops vs insurgents, SWAT-like vs terrorist (need civilians and hostages as complement) It was already discussed about the ethic aspect of this genre, i'm not arguing about that. I'd just like play a tabletop version of Ghost Recon, or a scenario like Black Hawk Down, or a Die Hard inspired game.Well that's actually kinda... surprising if not sad... but OK, here you go with just PERMES: Well these are JUST BASIC PERMES fantasy sets! There are also PERMES sets: Elementals, Mages, Barbarians, Reptilions, Necromancers plus various Beasts, Snake&Serpents and Dragons. Most of these includes various optional accessories, aspect or mod-kits so you can build your very own minis! (Then there is also standalone fantasy PERMES RPG HEROES series which can be easily merged/matched/added) // Not even mentioning PERMES Historical "VS" Series: Roma Aeterna Series VS Greek and Macedonians Series VS Persians -plus other sets work in progress status!// ... EDIT: Attached pic is kinda spreadsheet-style - just to show some published sets GRID - so there are Elves Vs (or in ALLIANCE!!!) Dwarves then Vs Orcs Actually you can combine/match these sets (or figurines) as you want or need according to your game!
BUT There are also some other PERMES fantasy sets (not showed/mentioned here) which you can easily add to enhance your game!
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Post by squirmydad on Nov 12, 2014 19:33:28 GMT -9
Don't forget these two sets with the classic match-up of samurai vs. samurai!
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Post by squirmydad on Nov 12, 2014 19:41:14 GMT -9
*caution mid level to advanced whining ahead * There is a Ton of work on the back end that I totally took for granted because squirmydad was doing it all for me. Now that I am doing it I have to say, I hate it and I think OBS should really find some way to stream line the process. But then they are all about selling gaming systems and books (now trading card) not so much on the paper minis. Also OBS does lots to pull in the RPG crowds but very little to attract the TTWG folks (Table Top War Gaming )so people are looking for systems and single RPG models which is why Dave Oakum does so well, he caters to those folks (that and his stuff is amazing ! ) so I think creating match ups will go a long way to bringing in the TTWG groups ... am I wrong .... again ? A couple of things I do to streamline the upload process is that I have folder that lives on my desktop with the files that get added to most every set, and I copy and paste them into the final upload as a last step before zipping and uploading. That way I don't have to go looking for them or wondering if I forgot one of the basics. I also, when setting up the product info, use the same layouts as previous products and just edit as needed to fit the current product. One thing that does bug me about OBS is the free copies for Featured Reviewers. As I understand it, if a reviewer downloads your product they're supposed to review it. There's one Featured Reviewer there that's downloaded dozens of products (mine and Aaron's) and never a peep about them. I no longer send reviewer copies anymore.
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Post by mesper on Nov 12, 2014 20:30:34 GMT -9
One thing that does bug me about OBS is the free copies for Featured Reviewers. As I understand it, if a reviewer downloads your product they're supposed to review it. There's one Featured Reviewer there that's downloaded dozens of products (mine and Aaron's) and never a peep about them. I no longer send reviewer copies anymore. THIS - same here! (Hmm... kinda "good" to know as I started to suspect that's all just because I'm not US or non-English language zone... or something like this;) Well I have ONLY ONE "Featured Reviewers" review - after dozens of sets published?! LOL (while many "reviewers" downloaded mine's sets constantly?!) Funny thing is that... this one-and-only review clearly shows that... reviewer even didn't read set description (!?!) and not even pay minimum attention to the in-set-info etc... not mentioning lack of some basic historical knowledge... REALLY? C'MON!!! In overall sad but also kinda disheartening! So actually I'm also not sending copies for reviewers...
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Post by Parduz on Nov 12, 2014 23:48:37 GMT -9
Well that's actually kinda... surprising if not sad... Why sad? I had you in mind when writing my list You're the only one with a bag of sets so complete, while other artists may have more complete but few races, or more races but not so much troop types. I just wish you have more competitors Your style is so personal (you know i like it) that one could want a more "toony" style for some games.
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Post by gothique on Nov 13, 2014 1:33:26 GMT -9
I was pleasantly surprised at how much is in the PERMES range, literally something for every taste and genre.
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Post by aaron on Nov 13, 2014 3:54:49 GMT -9
Mesper I love your stuff and I think that your art style is fantastic! Our styles couldn't be more different but I love how yours looks like it just came to life and jumped out of a comic book.
Amazon has a great search engine and they match up and promote other similar and symbiotic products, OBS has the worst search function and it doesn't pair or match anything? and there is no category for Paper minis were just kind of an after thought.
we need our own site that is tailored to paper minis has an upload process like deviant art, has a database system like OBS but a search system like Amazon and finally marketing like Microsoft LOL
My web building skills stink or I would have made one a long time ago.
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Post by Parduz on Nov 13, 2014 3:59:31 GMT -9
we need our own site that is tailored to paper minis has an upload process like deviant art, has a database system like OBS but a search system like Amazon and finally marketing like Microsoft LOL My web building skills stink or I would have made one a long time ago. Whatever your skill could be, it's not a task of a one-man army
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Post by aaron on Nov 13, 2014 6:45:29 GMT -9
well that's how bad my skills are I didn't even know that you couldn't just buy the engines and plug them in LOL!! ok so I just figured out that mesper didn't link any of his stuff!! so for all you lurkers out their who haven't had a chance to see what mesper has done you really need to!! rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse/pub/4347/PERMES?term=perm&cPath=8384_20973 I love the sky chariots and the lizard riding guys and... well theirs just a lot to see!! you should go check it out... right now! ok why are you still here? now the rest of us can discuss things among ourselves until they get back ...
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Post by aaron on Nov 13, 2014 19:34:19 GMT -9
3 of 10 every good unit has an experienced captain !
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Post by arcticdragongames on Nov 13, 2014 22:21:29 GMT -9
My wish list is for opposing World War forces, ideally with armored fighting vehicles and artillery.
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Post by arcticdragongames on Nov 13, 2014 22:24:35 GMT -9
Aaron, I really like the level of detail on the hammers.
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