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Post by arcknight on Jun 10, 2016 6:49:38 GMT -9
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Post by Vermin King on Jun 10, 2016 7:15:41 GMT -9
I'm glad you have bordered and non-bordered versions. On the 'bordered' ones, you should probably have a base tab. Meaning 'other than white'
Thanks
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Post by arcknight on Jun 10, 2016 7:18:50 GMT -9
I imagined that faint gray dotted box served as the base tab. It may not be easily visible in the sample image, but the pdf shows it.
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Post by migibb on Jun 10, 2016 8:02:17 GMT -9
Look good to me - will print them off and make them up when I am next back at my printer. One thing I would say - on the version with the borders, you might consider just filling in some of the smaller white spaces (between tentacles etc.). They can be a real bugger for hand cutters like me to try and remove - but it is really tempting to try if they are there!!!!!
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Post by migibb on Jun 10, 2016 8:04:31 GMT -9
PS - I have been waiting with bated breath for you to add papercraft versions. The fact you are doing them with a bordered option is such a bonus!!!
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Post by Rhannon on Jun 10, 2016 8:43:56 GMT -9
Hi arcknight, they will be wonderful paper minis imho. But ... a question ... I have taken part in your kickstarter project in 2014. I have pledged for tne "Digital Baker" level ( ... You will gain access to every single Digital product created by this kickstarter - including Virtual Tabletop (VTT) versions of all FPM art, and Papercraft / Print at home versions This tier includes all Digital stretch goals, such as additional packs of miniatures... ) with an estimated delivery on Sep 2015. Later I saw some of your digital products for sale on RPGNow but I haven't received any link as backer or other information. Can you help me, please, even with some news? thanks in advance.
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Post by arcknight on Jun 10, 2016 22:15:36 GMT -9
The main 5 core sets have their VTT files on RPGnow and when we finished each pack we re-submitted them to all of our digital backers. Maybe your email thought they were spam? Email sales@arcknight.com and I'll share the private dropbox version to your email.
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Post by arcknight on Jun 10, 2016 22:17:11 GMT -9
Look good to me - will print them off and make them up when I am next back at my printer. One thing I would say - on the version with the borders, you might consider just filling in some of the smaller white spaces (between tentacles etc.). They can be a real bugger for hand cutters like me to try and remove - but it is really tempting to try if they are there!!!!! Good point, I can make that border considerable thicker. Right now I believe it's a 6pt black outline, but I could do 10 or 12 if you want. I (assume) you guys cut along that black border, so the piece ends up with a smaller black border than is visible. A black border that's too small makes it hard to cut, while a black border that's too large just wastes black ink, right?
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Post by migibb on Jun 11, 2016 2:51:15 GMT -9
I couldn't tell you what the 'standard' widths are, but I understand it is common among the producers to do a slightly wider border on the back of the minis. Then it is up to each user how close in they cut their minis - I try to leave as little as possible, frex - but the wider border on the back helps cover up any alignment issues.
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Post by wyvern on Jun 11, 2016 3:18:28 GMT -9
OK. Well, this is great news first of all! But, you wanted comments on formatting, so here they are. My immediate thoughts were much as migibb said - there are far too many tiny white detailing gaps that will be impossible to cut by hand. These really need removing/concealing. I know I CAN use a marker pen on these once printed, but this tends to show up as different to the printed version, and is prone to slips. However, there's a further issue here, because a lot of the bordered minis have similarly small gaps between the lower edge of their robes (the wraiths, for example) and the base tab. This will weaken that key joint badly, and also needs resolving. Simply filling the space with black should be fine, or adding a small amount of ground detailing (grass, rocks, etc.; I do appreciate though that this latter option may not be practical for you). Looking further at this, there are greater problems elsewhere, where some of the minis don't attach to their base tabs at all (the flyers), while others have a far too narrow, single attachment point (such as one of the mounted wraiths, and several creatures that are standing on just one leg). From my experience, this will be a significant problem in the final minis. Worth noting too that the borderless minis at best currently barely touch their base tabs. This needs altering too, as not everyone will be confident enough to cut the space by hand to create a suitably firm attachment point. It's important to remember that while the folks here most likely to comment are experienced modellers, most folks who might wish to buy such sets won't be, so it's important they're looked after. And experienced modellers like an easier life too, of course! In terms of the base tabs, a thin black line, rather than the current grey dashed line, might be preferable. Such faint lines don't always print as well as you'd hope/expect, and a thin solid line shouldn't create any untoward difficulties. Lastly, and I suspect there may be very little you can do about this, I'm concerned the overall colour palette is too washed-out, almost trending towards greyscale in places. Again, from my experience, such minis tend to print out too dull and featureless, and can end up looking like shadow creatures. It may be just me, but the PDF minis look almost as if they've had a mist-like overlay placed across them, fading the colours and losing definition in some of the detailing. And one idly curious thought. Is there a reason only one of the four wraiths' horses has eye-holes in its head armour?
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Post by arcknight on Jun 15, 2016 20:11:26 GMT -9
Looking further at this, there are greater problems elsewhere, where some of the minis don't attach to their base tabs at all (the flyers), while others have a far too narrow, single attachment point (such as one of the mounted wraiths, and several creatures that are standing on just one leg). From my experience, this will be a significant problem in the final minis. Some of these things we can certainly fix, but the art is what the art is. For those pieces that aren't going to touch the ground regardless (for instance, the flying pieces) what do you suggest? We can experiment with your suggestion of making a small tuft of grass or other base graphic and superimpose it.
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Post by Vermin King on Jun 16, 2016 3:25:32 GMT -9
Or for flying figures, I usually just glue a piece of transparency between the two sides. You could just make that recommendation and be good.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Jun 16, 2016 3:46:44 GMT -9
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Post by squirmydad on Jun 16, 2016 6:26:34 GMT -9
For borders I have always used eight points on the front and 16 points on the back. The bigger border on the back helps to mask any misalignment issues.
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Post by wyvern on Jun 17, 2016 6:26:36 GMT -9
Looking further at this, there are greater problems elsewhere, where some of the minis don't attach to their base tabs at all (the flyers), while others have a far too narrow, single attachment point (such as one of the mounted wraiths, and several creatures that are standing on just one leg). From my experience, this will be a significant problem in the final minis. Some of these things we can certainly fix, but the art is what the art is. For those pieces that aren't going to touch the ground regardless (for instance, the flying pieces) what do you suggest? Yeah, I appreciate that these weren't designed primarily to be paper minis, hence the way I phrased my comments. At the same time though, you ARE now wanting to market them as paper minis, so I also tried to highlight the obvious problems. Mike ( mproteau (Paper Realms)) already gave links to what I'd think of too as useful ideas for the flyer bases. Vermin King's point about using transparent plastic sheet for these is fine for more experienced modellers, but again, I'm not sure that's so helpful for those with less expertise. Plus clear plastic doesn't always stick as well to paper/card, or as permanently, as you might like, so some kind of "sky" paper/card base structure already on the mini might be preferable (e.g. like the flyer bases in the Okumarts Dungeon Monsters Set Two, though not necessarily done in solid black). In the case of some of the standing minis, just moving the figure artwork to overlap their base tabs more could help, though there comes a point where you'll lose too much of the artwork in the base tab when the mini's complete, of course. Plus this doesn't help so much for the folks standing/running on one leg.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Jun 17, 2016 6:37:43 GMT -9
I suspect that brightening up the colors *a lot* and even just using black to lift the minis up so you have enough connection to the base would work just fine. For darker figs, some folks like to put a halo effect around them so you can still see the intended outline of the figure. Different strokes for different folks. It's about finding a balance for what YOU like to see, and what works on the table.
If I have some time over lunch, I'll play with the sample you posted. I like the figures!
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Jun 17, 2016 7:02:31 GMT -9
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Post by migibb on Jun 17, 2016 13:34:12 GMT -9
Just printed some off at home and no pictures at the moment - as the lighting is very poor in my wee flat, and my camera even poorer!! But first few comments.... 1) scale-wise they fit well alongside okumarts and One Monk. The Deep Ones look a little small to me - but that is compared to Arknight's own human size figs as well, and is really a personal preference. 2) the second page was obviously not at the same scale - unless the mounted ringwraiths were "far away" (a la Father Ted) - so I printed them off to be the equivalent of A3 (circa 128%?). They printed out fine, but obviously the tabs were larger - thus making the big monsters even taller. 3) The tabs are marked with (very faint) dotted lines - too faint for my ageing eyes (and poor lighting). No doubt I will go back and black these out by hand - as well as reduce the height of the ones from page 2. 4) The colours came out very dark. In part, of course, this is due to the theme of the sample pack. In addition, the toner levels on my printer are rapidly approaching zero so this may well have affected the outcome. 5) Having to go back and black out the little white spots was a bit of a pain - I cut out the largest pieces I could on the formless spawn and the mounted ringwraith I have done so far. But these are relatively minor quibbles - the figures themselves are excellent. No real alignment issues - though I would feel safer if they had the "traditional" thicker black outline on the back. Will do a few more and get some pics up over the weekend.....
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Post by migibb on Jun 18, 2016 3:39:27 GMT -9
arcknight - pictures, as promised. One of the six of your minis I have cut (by hand) and edged so far. Two from page 1 (at 100%) and four from page 2 (enlarged at approx 130%). And the second features one of your female cultists alongside a cultist from okumarts and a One Monk wraith alongside one of yours. Few final thoughts/comments..... Your tabs are taller than One Monk's so - although the figures match almost perfectly in height - yours end up looking a touch taller. Not a problem as I will just trim them down to size. Obviously the tabs on the figures I enlarged are even taller. On the figures with the bold outline, where the outline encroaches on the tab the dotted line is superimposed on top of the border. You might want to switch those layers round? All told though I think they are fab figures. My wishlist of changes would be simply: 1) increase the width of the bold outline on the back to allow for any alignment issues. 2) blacking out the smaller white spots that appear between the borders on tentacles etc. 3) give them a black tab - to save me colouring them in - and have the black reach as far as the base of the actual picture - e.g. so the formless spawn/gibbering mouther thing would appear to be sat on a small black mound. Will let you know how i get on with the flyers. Were they supposed to be an even larger scale, by the way?
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