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Post by squirmydad on Sept 10, 2016 17:53:13 GMT -9
Here is this fellow's method of converting images to miniatures;
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Post by chiefasaur on Sept 10, 2016 18:15:21 GMT -9
Hmm, the packing tape is interesting, I've never done anything like that to finish my minis, I may have to give it a spin. He goes through a lot of trouble to base googled, mirrored figures. Somebody needs to send him to this forum, get some proper minis with backs!
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 10, 2016 22:06:39 GMT -9
He also has a Facebook page with pictures of his armies, many of which are made up of many that came from the hordes from here. So he does know about this place.
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Post by pavaro on Sept 11, 2016 0:22:00 GMT -9
In fact, an interesting way to finish minis. I have to try it out.
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shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
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Post by shep on Sept 11, 2016 2:43:18 GMT -9
I laminated the first few sets of Darkfast minis I printed, but using packing tape is an interesting approach…
However, using Google to search for art results in minis that you can only use for private games. I'd never have the guts to largely show them off or even sell them – with or without artist credit and such. In case of large companies like Paizo, FFG, and whoever does D&D nowadays, this could end with huge depts from paying the lawsuits...
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Post by chiefasaur on Sept 11, 2016 4:48:43 GMT -9
He also has a Facebook page with pictures of his armies, many of which are made up of many that came from the hordes from here. So he does know about this place. Oh, I guess I need to do my research next time. Is printing a figure on normal paper then adding a layer of card stock between it common? Seems like an extra step. I just print onto card.
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Post by nolabert on Sept 11, 2016 5:19:51 GMT -9
Black Magic Craft on Youtube also uses Wyloch's technique for making paper minis. I know in the comment section of the video someone asked him whether he was violating copyright and he said it was fair use for his private games. Wyloch has gone into the business with a partner for 3D printing terrain based on his hand-crafted terrain although his personal terrain will remain hand crafted as he doesn't own nor wants a 3D printer. His videos mostly focus on crafting. I watch his videos along with DM's Craft (DM Scotty), Drunkens and Dragons, Black Magic Craft, DMGinfo, and Nerdarchy (not a crafting series--they mostly discuss different aspects of D&D).
Although I'm pretty happy sticking with paper terrain, they do get some pretty amazing results with styrofoam mostly (DM Scotty uses a lot of cardboard). Still seems pretty labor intensive with sculpting then painting (and perhaps sealing) terrain. They all pretty much go the 2.5D route.
I'm curious how many folks do anything to finish their paper minis. I've never taken this step.
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Post by cowboycentaur on Sept 11, 2016 6:15:58 GMT -9
He also has a Facebook page with pictures of his armies, many of which are made up of many that came from the hordes from here. So he does know about this place. Oh, I guess I need to do my research next time. Is printing a figure on normal paper then adding a layer of card stock between it common? Seems like an extra step. I just print onto card. I print onto card stock, but I use a piece of scrap from another project to make my mini's three layered. It's an extra step that takes a little longer but I like the extra rigidity and they fit into my plastic stands a bit more snugly. Back before I had a color printer I would print them onto regular paper and put them on a piece of very thick cardboard and man it was a tedious prospect cutting through all that paper with a hobby knife. Thankfully I've learned a bit in my few years in the hobby.
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 11, 2016 8:07:44 GMT -9
I have always just printed onto good card stock. Sometimes I have sprayed them with matte sealant, the same way you would finish a metal miniatures paint job.
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Post by nolabert on Sept 11, 2016 8:59:38 GMT -9
Spray matte sealant like a matte varnish? No problems with sealant curling the minis? Also, why only sometimes? Have folks had paper minis ruined by moisture or fading--thus the need for a sealant?
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 11, 2016 16:19:56 GMT -9
Spray matte sealant like a matte varnish? No problems with sealant curling the minis? Also, why only sometimes? Have folks had paper minis ruined by moisture or fading--thus the need for a sealant? I haven't seen any problems with curling or fading over the years. Only sometimes because the climate is damp up here more often than not and I don't have a garage space to fill with fumes. Part of me knows I should, as I do seal all of my plastic and pewter mini paint jobs.
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Post by pavaro on Sept 11, 2016 19:59:04 GMT -9
Nice idea with the packing tape but what in case if we have bigger models?
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shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
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Post by shep on Sept 11, 2016 23:11:20 GMT -9
Nice idea with the packing tape but what in case if we have bigger models? I don't know, but I guess you can buy something like this: amzn.to/2cxyBDN all around the world. It's a transparent adhesive foil that is usually used to protect books. It usually comes in rolls 40 cm wide and around 5 m long (that'd be around 15.8 inches wide and around 16 feet 5 inches long). Should be enough to wrap almost any mini into tranparent plastic...
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 12, 2016 5:22:46 GMT -9
There have been a few comments about sealing models and figures. So, since I'm the one that does this on everything, I figured I had better comment.
There are practically no projects in paper that I don't seal. I am a glue slob. I also have issues with moisture and bleeding when I edge.
Automatically, when I print a page, I will go out on the porch and give a light dusting of either Krylon Clear Matte or Clear Satin, depending on whether I want just a little 'shine'. Shake the can roughly twice as long as recommended and holding the can upside down, give it a shot into the air to make sure the nozzle is cleared out. Then give the page a very light coat. If it starts to soak into the paper, you have given too heavy of a coat. After the page has dried for 15 minutes or so, I lay it sprayed side down on a flat surface and put it under books for at least half an hour. Light coat and putting under weight prevents any curling.
I do this for a couple reasons. By having the page sealed, any glue issues wipe off easily. It also reduces 'bleeding' problems when you edge. My models are on various shelves for the most part, so it also reduces fading. The sealant also adds stiffness and weight to the piece reducing the possibility of accidental damage. I also give things a light coat after the model is finished.
A couple light dusting coats does a much better job than one heavier coat.
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Post by nolabert on Sept 12, 2016 7:44:10 GMT -9
I use a matte varnish on my pewter minis, but the time to paint metal minis vs. print, glue, cut, and edge paper minis is significantly greater (and I do all my cutting by hand--highly recommend X-Acto X-life blades since they stay sharper longer than regular #11 blades). Would I be bummed if a paper mini was damaged during game play from moisture or something, yes. Would I be as bummed as damage to a metal mini that I spent significant time on a paint job, no way. I've gotten glue on my paper minis or paper terrain and I don't sweat it. In one case it just made the dwarf's complexion a little darker. In the case of Fat Dragon EZ Dungeon walls, it just makes it look like it is oily or wet--appropriate for a dungeon. I guess what this all comes down to is whether the protection of a sealant is worth it for paper minis. AFAIK no publisher has included the sealant step in their instructions for making paper minis or terrain. How come?
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 12, 2016 9:03:59 GMT -9
I use Testors Dullcote to take the shine off (because I have mine printed professionally, they are VERY shiny) when I can be bothered to... I think I have done just a few, out of the several dozen I have made. Spraying requires stepping Outside, and as we all know, Outside is where the Apocalypse happens...
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Post by oldschooldm on Sept 12, 2016 9:16:41 GMT -9
I use either spray matte finish or gloss, depending on the paper used and the desired effect.
The most important thing each does for me, is enhance the colors - making them "wet" forever. This is especially important when printing on 'dull' papers, like cheap 100lb cardstock.
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Post by nolabert on Sept 12, 2016 9:59:33 GMT -9
oldschooldm if you have the time can you give us a before and after spraying to see the effect? And do you spray like Vermin King after printing but before cutting, gluing, etc.? What I use is probably cheap 110 lb cardstock since I just use Staples brand. Also for those who spray before cutting, does the spray make cutting more difficult? (again, I don't use a robocutter).
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Post by oldschooldm on Sept 12, 2016 10:18:39 GMT -9
oldschooldm if you have the time can you give us a before and after spraying to see the effect? And do you spray like Vermin King after printing but before cutting, gluing, etc.? What I use is probably cheap 110 lb cardstock since I just use Staples brand. Also for those who spray before cutting, does the spray make cutting more difficult? (again, I don't use a robocutter). Sure thing. Next thing I print and cut. That should be a day or two. My steps these days: 1) Download/Create Cutfile (well known steps for adding registration marks using Silhouette Studio omitted here.) 2) Print 3) (While printing) Cut sandwich 'filling' layer of solid black cardstock using the same cutfile and registration marks turned off and remove base from this layer. 4) Spray printout (Matte if photo paper, Gloss if dull cardstock) 5) Cut with cutter 6) Glue back to filling, edge with black Tombow brush pen 7) Glue front to filling, edge again 8) Dry under heavy weight 9) Insert in whatever temporary basing scheme that is at hand 10) Photograph/Play! I used to edge right after the cutting step - face-down on scrap- but found when using photo paper that was very messy. The method above isn't perfect for my klutzy hands, but it tends to keep edging messes to the backs of the figures.
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 12, 2016 10:18:41 GMT -9
It doesn't make cutting more difficult, but you do have to change blades a bit more often. During the Mos Eisley Cantina, I had to go to the next blade segment twice, but it was a used blade before I started and it still has life to it even after doing the mystery machine and starting the bluebird. It may reduce blade life by 25% maybe, but probably not more than that
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Post by oldschooldm on Sept 12, 2016 10:21:20 GMT -9
It doesn't make cutting more difficult, but you do have to change blades a bit more often. During the Mos Eisley Cantina, I had to go to the next blade segment twice, but it was a used blade before I started and it still has life to it even after doing the mystery machine and starting the bluebird. It may reduce blade life by 25% maybe, but probably not more than that That would explain something I hadn't been able to explain - mproteau (Paper Realms) reported very long knife lifetimes, but I'd not been seeing that myself. Perhaps this spray is dulling my blades faster. Thanks for the insight!
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Post by oldschooldm on Sept 12, 2016 10:54:25 GMT -9
110lb cardstock coating test by Oracle Omega, on Flickr Printed on 110lb Cheap Cardstock Top Row: Krylon Matte Finish (Spray) Center Row: Left untreated Bottom Row: Krylon Clear Coat (Spray) They don't really look that bright in person - my phone camera "helped" I think. But you can clearly see the contrast. Those are playing-card sized images.
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 12, 2016 11:00:09 GMT -9
It hurts longevity a little, but it is a very rare thing for me not to use it. And it doesn't always help (well, it probably helps, but it can only do so much), but over half of what I do will end up given away. When a person doesn't have the time invested, they will not take proper care. I'll have to see if I can find the Black Moor Goldfish I did for my grandmother before she died. She had a mother-in-law's tongue plant in her room at the nursinghome, and the fish was 'swimming' past it. Invariably, that plant (and the poor paper fish) would be in the direct line of her humidifier. When she past away, I ended up with all her models back and they are in a box. I'll have to locate that poor thing
EDIT -- That is a very good demonstration, and is probably why the Scooby Haunted House came out less vivid in my Mystery Machine photo. I didn't spray it. Duh
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Post by oldschooldm on Sept 12, 2016 11:43:46 GMT -9
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Post by nolabert on Sept 12, 2016 16:18:59 GMT -9
Interesting. oldschooldm in your first set the sprayed panels looked better than the unsprayed. But in your second set the unsprayed panel looked better. Here is what my minis look like without any spray sealant/finish.
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Post by nolabert on Sept 12, 2016 16:28:06 GMT -9
And here is an image of the minis in action from a recent gaming session. (The mini with the owl is by one of my players who takes a simpler approach to making paper minis).
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Post by nolabert on Sept 13, 2016 16:13:39 GMT -9
I realized that with the way I make paper minis, spraying before cutting wouldn't work for me, because I never cut completely up to the black border (except with Kev's Lounge minis since he has such a generous black border). Instead I leave some white like this: Then I edge with a black Prismacolor marker: Then I fill in the white: Until the mini has a complete black border: I could try the sealant on completed minis though. Maybe I'll give one a test sometime soon.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Sept 19, 2016 16:40:46 GMT -9
Printing on Card Stock I've been having excellent results printing on Staples 110 lb Card Stock, which has a very smooth but uncoated surface. The 67 lb. Cover Stock has a rougher texture, leading to blurrier, less-intense printing, in addition to being much flimsier. With the 110 lb. stock folded over, for a total of 220 lbs (plus the strength added by the edge-to-edge coat of white glue to laminate the two faces), I haven't needed to add a third layer between the front and back. If it were necessary to do so, I'd be concerned I wouldn't be able to align the front and back faces well enough to allow for my rather tight style of cutting. In any case, I've been amazed at how strong two sheets of 110 lb card stock become when laminated back to back with white or tacky glue.
Spray Sealants--Glossy vs. Matte As for sealing, I tested glossy and matte spray coats over the weekend, and was surprised by the results. I expected to prefer matte finish, or perhaps matte for terrain and glossy for figures, thinking the glossy surface would help the figures "pop" on matte-coated terrain. What I found was that when I coated the terrain well enough with the matte spray to provide a level of sealant that satisfied my standard as a protective coating, the spray dulled the model, especially graying-out the blacks. As soon as it stops raining--hopefully before work tomorrow morning--I'll hit my terrain tiles with a glossy coat and see if that works better. I'm sufficiently disappointed with the matte-coated terrain tiles that I'm going to try over-coating the matte sealant with glossy, in an attempt to punch their colors back up. Otherwise, I'll have to rebuild and replace those tiles...grrr...
The glossy spray sealant on the figures came out great, though. It gives the characters a great, perpetual "wet look", that really saturates the colors and emphasizes the details when compared to an uncoated figure. I wait to spray the figures until after I've cut them out, though, so that the edges get sealed along with the faces. In addition to the improved appearance, the glossy sealant should protect the figures against damp or greasy fingers at the game table, which are always a threat when cold drinks and chips are around.
The two spray sealants I tested were the UV-Resistant Clear Gloss and UV-Resistant Clear Matte from Krylon, which I was able to pick up at Michaels, btw.
Wyloch's Crafting Vids I've watched all of Wyloch's videos, and if you like DM Scotty's style of 2.5D terrain, and especially if you prefer to play on a grid, Wyloch's designs and demonstrations are fantastic. His shift from a 1" to a 1.25" grid is something I've picked up for my own papercraft tile set (which will be ready to share in a few days), making it much easier to manipulate modern 28mm and 32mm minis on the game table. I'm not a massive fan of how he finishes his paper character minis, for several reasons, but his use of Photoshop to prepare them for printing is helpful to see.
"Borrowed" Images for Papercraft Minis Wyloch demos how to find an image and turn it into a paper mini, a practice which dances on the edge of copyright laws. I personally don't feel bad about using images I found online to make papercraft minis for personal use, even if they are copyrighted (and the overwhelming majority of them are), but I mean "personal use" in the narrowest sense--minis that I will print out, finish, and use on my own table, in my own home, in my own game. I wouldn't distribute the files I made in the process in any way at all--I not only wouldn't post them for download, I wouldn't even give a copy of the file to a personal friend to print out. I might--maybe--give a finished mini directly to someone I know face-to-face, but that would be the absolute limit for me with regard to "found" images. As for Wyloch's inclusion of figures he's made from found images in his video, I'm pretty sure that does fall within fair use, assuming he's not distributing the image in any way that is directly usable by members of his audience, which he doesn't seem to be.
All that being said, there are so many really good minis available legally, either free or at very reasonable prices, that creating new figures using borrowed images invariably fails the cost-benefit analysis. In fact, the only borrowed images I've used to create personal-use minis depicted monsters or animals that weren't otherwise available. My motivation for creating the minis from found images is never to save money, but always to have a needed miniature that I couldn't acquire any other way.
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 19, 2016 17:29:26 GMT -9
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Post by nolabert on Sept 20, 2016 15:35:21 GMT -9
Thanks for the info jeffgeorge . Any chance you could post some pics of the models after the sealants? Vermin King is the Satin finish between Matte and Gloss?
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