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Post by whisper31 on Jan 18, 2017 6:46:46 GMT -9
Okay folks. Here is Christopher Roe/Ebbles Miniatures beta of the 2nd Edition Gun Crawl. Took me about 12 hours to put the whole thing together from scratch. This is a little pic heavy, so bear with the loading times. Here is the whole thing in one shot. Note that I don't have any xenomorphs in the pic since I can't decide which way to go with them. Neither one that I have seen (Christopher Roe's or onemonk's seem to go together very well for me at the moment.) Here is the box that comes in the kit. Player's Mats Rooms Starting point and corridors Doorways and doors Flame counters and game tokens All of the cards Bug Hunt Mission Booklet Here are the TF guys I selected for the game Last, but not least, Everything in the box to show you that it does all fit. Let me know what you guys think. When I play a few games, I'll post pics of the carnage (I have a few other things that I have to get done before I can do anything else).
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Post by squirmydad on Jan 18, 2017 7:48:38 GMT -9
That looks great! What is it about the Xenomorphs that doesn't work for you? There are many simple fold-over Aliens paper minis at this blog; Chappter Unapproved
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Post by whisper31 on Jan 18, 2017 9:33:00 GMT -9
That looks great! What is it about the Xenomorphs that doesn't work for you? There are many simple fold-over Aliens paper minis at this blog; Chappter UnapprovedNot quite sure why they won't work. The folds just don't seem to want to work correctly and the assembly of the onemonk xenos will not stay together even after adding additional layers of cardstock at the connections to beef it up. Maybe I'm just not holding my mouth right or something. Anyway, those xenos at that link are pretty much what I was looking for for flats and will work just fine. I can even give the players a little more of a challenge by using the queen at the end of the scenario. Thanks for the link squirmydad!!
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Post by alloydog on Jan 18, 2017 10:37:22 GMT -9
I too had trouble with the stalkers and slahers. It was too fiddley for me to assemble them using the slots. Instead I just stuck the arms and legs on flat to the sides, but gave a bit of width/space between the limb ad the body with an extra piece of card.
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Post by Vermin King on Jan 18, 2017 11:34:02 GMT -9
The xenos are a bit fiddly, but my main problem was trying to keep the cats from stealing them. Both of my cats are especially attracted to them.
I always thought they looked a bit short compared to the TerraForce mini's. Would it be bad to upscale them to 110%. It would make them less fiddly
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Post by whisper31 on Jan 18, 2017 13:20:21 GMT -9
I too had trouble with the stalkers and slahers. It was too fiddley for me to assemble them using the slots. Instead I just stuck the arms and legs on flat to the sides, but gave a bit of width/space between the limb ad the body with an extra piece of card. I think I see what you are saying. I think I will try that with the next one I put together. That also gives the ability to put the arms and legs the way I want to as well.
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Post by Vermin King on Jan 18, 2017 13:46:26 GMT -9
When I first did them, someone suggested giving them a shot of CA glue before cutting them out. It certainly made them more durable
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Post by radoslawkamil on Jan 18, 2017 17:35:41 GMT -9
Look great! This box is print on A4 size paper? Look big. I think I will need to buy some heavy photo paper to make this game coz regular 120g paper will not be good or it. And I try CA glue for paper minis and it is good one.Make paper strong like plastic so Vermin King advice can work I read about CA glue a lot and when use proper way is magic glue haha
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Post by Vermin King on Jan 18, 2017 19:01:17 GMT -9
I don't use photo paper, just 147 gsm and 199 gsm cardstock. For the box, I'd glue to thin cereal box card. UPS mailers make good card for reinforcing
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Post by whisper31 on Jan 19, 2017 4:03:42 GMT -9
Everything that you see was done with 110lb cardstock. The only cardboard I used was under the room, corridor, and starting point tiles, plus the players mats. Then I had some clear contact paper that I used to laminate everything but the tokens and flame counters and mission booklet.
All of the tiles were glued down with a generous amount of rubber cement and then I used a pasta rolling pin to burnish everything so that the glue would be nice and even throughout.
I did find a deal at my local office supply store. They had a closeout sale on 100 count #11 xacto knife blades for $2.00 each, so I ended up buying 5 of them.
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Post by nikandros on Jan 19, 2017 5:23:46 GMT -9
Where do you find the 2nd edition beta set? I have all of the 1st edition stuff, but can't find the 2nd. I would love to check this out!
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Post by Vermin King on Jan 19, 2017 6:50:55 GMT -9
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Post by uptrainfan89 on Jan 19, 2017 8:03:43 GMT -9
It's also on the Genet Models website under "Fun Stuff" with the 1st Edition GunCrawl stuff.
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Post by alloydog on Jan 19, 2017 9:07:02 GMT -9
I too had trouble with the stalkers and slahers. It was too fiddley for me to assemble them using the slots. Instead I just stuck the arms and legs on flat to the sides, but gave a bit of width/space between the limb ad the body with an extra piece of card. I think I see what you are saying. I think I will try that with the next one I put together. That also gives the ability to put the arms and legs the way I want to as well. I tried to take some photos to show how I built them: They're a based up ready to take on the orcs:
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Post by uptrainfan89 on Jan 19, 2017 9:29:23 GMT -9
I always just built them the way I wanted each mini to be and then used superglue to put everything together. Down side is you can't swap parts (which was never a concern for me) but they looked and held together nicely.
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Post by whisper31 on Jan 19, 2017 13:39:11 GMT -9
Look great! This box is print on A4 size paper? Look big. I think I will need to buy some heavy photo paper to make this game coz regular 120g paper will not be good or it. And I try CA glue for paper minis and it is good one.Make paper strong like plastic so Vermin King advice can work I read about CA glue a lot and when use proper way is magic glue haha Sorry about missing your post radoslawkamil. The pages I printed were formatted for American Letter size (215.9 by 279.4 mm). The box turned out to be about 7in x 9in (177.8 x 228.6 mm). It is just large enough to fit the room tiles and player mats inside of it with maybe 1-2 mm to spare, so you will probably have to turn the box over to get those parts out.
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Post by radoslawkamil on Jan 19, 2017 16:12:57 GMT -9
Whell i read this betweenborders.com/wordsmithing/a4-vs-us-letter/ about paper size. I use A4 format. Is not much diffrent i think so it will be the same box. About weight of paper there is some problem coz my paper I use now have 120gsm 0.022 mm and it was cheap paper, but is like twice sturdy than regular printer paper 80gsm. There is many kind of paper so with same weitgh they will have diffrent thickness. I read this www.paper-papers.com/paper-weights.html and get even more confuse. I usually use 120gsm paper but I glue 2 pages together for bigger parts. I read that people use photo paper and it have more weight and it come with bright clean prints but is expensive to use it for more models and some glue work diffrent with regular and with photo paper couseing problems with assembling more comlicated models. Anyway if whisper31 use 110lb paper is like 200gsm paper so very heavy one.
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Post by whisper31 on Jan 19, 2017 16:27:15 GMT -9
The weight of what I use is about 200gsm which is what is used for thicker index cards, manila folders and the like. The main reason that I use this weight of paper is that it is relatively cheap for me (about $6.00 for a package of 150 sheets or $8.00 for 250 sheets at our local bulk box store), and I get pretty good results from it. Everything that you see in the pictures above was done on that weight of paper. It works nicely in the color laser printer that I have access to as well as taking ink fairly well. The main difference in the printers is that the laset printer comes out a lot brighter than the inkjet does because the laser jet melts plastic particles into the paper as opposed to soaking the paper with ink dots, so there is a "shinyness" to the laser printed sheets (but you can re-create on inkjet with a clear matte spray paint).
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Post by jeffgeorge on Jan 20, 2017 23:09:27 GMT -9
Whell i read this betweenborders.com/wordsmithing/a4-vs-us-letter/ about paper size. I use A4 format. Is not much diffrent i think so it will be the same box. About weight of paper there is some problem coz my paper I use now have 120gsm 0.022 mm and it was cheap paper, but is like twice sturdy than regular printer paper 80gsm. There is many kind of paper so with same weitgh they will have diffrent thickness. I read this www.paper-papers.com/paper-weights.html and get even more confuse. I usually use 120gsm paper but I glue 2 pages together for bigger parts. I read that people use photo paper and it have more weight and it come with bright clean prints but is expensive to use it for more models and some glue work diffrent with regular and with photo paper couseing problems with assembling more comlicated models. Anyway if whisper31 use 110lb paper is like 200gsm paper so very heavy one. I use 110lb/200gsm cardstock for almost everything. I've tried photopaper, but haven't been happy with the results. First off, with photo paper, you have to be absolutely sure it isn't coated, because any coating will crack when you fold it. That means no glossy or satin-finish photo paper at all. Even matte paper is often coated--you just have to buy it and find out. I found an uncoated matte paper aimed at art photographers on Amazon, but it really wasn't enough nicer than 110lb cardstock to be worth the extra money.
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Post by radoslawkamil on Jan 21, 2017 3:25:37 GMT -9
I buy some matte photo paper myself and it was look the same like on regular paper i have lol so I agree it wasn't worth extra money. I dont think about coated thing problem but is good You point it out coz I was thinking about buying glossy paper and now I will not I cant find any 200gsm paper in shops I now about in Poland. I buy 500 pages of 120gsm paper for very good price so I need to use it first lol. I will use 2 pages glue together and see how it go.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Jan 21, 2017 10:51:58 GMT -9
Double-layered 120gsm should be very strong. If possible, use no-wrinkle rubber cement, contact adhesive, or spray adhesive to stick the front and back sides together, instead of white glue. White glue (even "Tacky" craft glue) can cause large areas to warp or bend as it dries, due to the large amount of water in the glue.
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Post by radoslawkamil on Jan 21, 2017 11:32:14 GMT -9
I use polyurethane adhesive for most work. Is not cause problems, no change after it dries. I never use white glue for paper or any water based glue.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Jan 21, 2017 19:29:56 GMT -9
Hey, Christopher Roe, this talk of Gun Crawl led me to open up the files and look into printing out the set. Which in turn led me to printing out and reading the assembly instructions included in the set, in which--among other things--you show how to perfect-bind a printable book at home. I'm dying to try this out, but I want to be sure I've got the right kinds of glue. In the instructions, you call for flexible-bond contact adhesive, and no-wrinkle rubber cement. Are these the right sort of products for the project? Elmer's Contact AdhesiveElmer's No-Wrinkle Rubber CementBy the way, your use of binder clips and rulers to hold the pages together while you spread the glue is brilliant! I have a long-arm stapler, and I do a lot of home saddles-stitching of thinner books. Now that I've started using binder clips to hold the pages together, I don't have to worry about them shifting while I line them up to staple. (My manual stapler can punch through about 24 sheets of regular paper, plus a cardstock cover, so I can do books up to about 80-90 pages; I print the PDFs out using the booklet setting, and the books come out great.) But hopefully, your perfect-binding method will let me do thicker books. I can't wait to try it out on the Gun Crawl rules!
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Post by whisper31 on Jan 21, 2017 22:28:00 GMT -9
I use polyurethane adhesive for most work. Is not cause problems, no change after it dries. I never use white glue for paper or any water based glue. I prefer using a glue stick and rubber cement myself. I use the glue stick for small connections like tabs on models, and the rubber cement for large areas like the GC2 tiles onto the cardboard cereal box sheets. Both are made by Elmer's and I use so many glue sticks that I buy them 12-15 at one time. The glue sticks are the ones that go onto the model purple and then dry clear. This way, I know where I have put down the paste and what is left to cover.
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Post by whisper31 on Jan 21, 2017 22:29:11 GMT -9
Hey, Christopher Roe , this talk of Gun Crawl led me to open up the files and look into printing out the set. Which in turn led me to printing out and reading the assembly instructions included in the set, in which--among other things--you show how to perfect-bind a printable book at home. I'm dying to try this out, but I want to be sure I've got the right kinds of glue. In the instructions, you call for flexible-bond contact adhesive, and no-wrinkle rubber cement. Are these the right sort of products for the project? Elmer's Contact AdhesiveElmer's No-Wrinkle Rubber CementBy the way, your use of binder clips and rulers to hold the pages together while you spread the glue is brilliant! I have a long-arm stapler, and I do a lot of home saddles-stitching of thinner books. Now that I've started using binder clips to hold the pages together, I don't have to worry about them shifting while I line them up to staple. (My manual stapler can punch through about 24 sheets of regular paper, plus a cardstock cover, so I can do books up to about 80-90 pages; I print the PDFs out using the booklet setting, and the books come out great.) But hopefully, your perfect-binding method will let me do thicker books. I can't wait to try it out on the Gun Crawl rules! I haven't tried this yet, but I would guess the Rubber Cement would be correct. Post some pics of it when you get it done so we can see what it looks like IRL.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Jan 22, 2017 1:07:16 GMT -9
Interestingly, I watched some bookbinding videos on YouTube after this post, and discovered that "real" bookbinders--both hobbyists and high-end craftsfolk--use a lot of PVA glue (aka white glue) than I expected. One of the ways they use it is exactly where Chris is using the flexible-bond contact cement--to bind the spine of a perfect-bound book.
BTW, those videos on bookbinding were fascinating. It's a branch of this hobby--or perhaps it's a separate but closely-related hobby--that I'm getting increasingly interested in. If I do actually make anything, I absolutely will post pics.
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Post by alloydog on Jan 22, 2017 8:05:09 GMT -9
Interestingly, I watched some bookbinding videos on YouTube after this post, and discovered that "real" bookbinders--both hobbyists and high-end craftsfolk--use a lot of PVA glue (aka white glue) than I expected. One of the ways they use it is exactly where Chris is using the flexible-bond contact cement--to bind the spine of a perfect-bound book. BTW, those videos on bookbinding were fascinating. It's a branch of this hobby--or perhaps it's a separate but closely-related hobby--that I'm getting increasingly interested in. If I do actually make anything, I absolutely will post pics. . Thread drift I know, but I'm surprised about that: PVA dries hard, and I thought it would crack. I've only ever made one book, but because I couldn'd get any gum arabic, I stitched the pages together.
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Post by radoslawkamil on Jan 22, 2017 10:55:56 GMT -9
Dont know what is rubber cement, never see product like that in shops. I see many people use hot glue gun for books and things like that. There is special glue for books that not crack after many open and closeing them. I dont like white kinds of glues because they all dry long time and if use to much they can distroy all work sink in to paper etc.
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Post by radoslawkamil on Jan 22, 2017 12:35:46 GMT -9
I make alien stalkers too and the problem is weight of the hands and body not balance by legs so it was hard to make them stand streith. I use CA glue to make them but i think they need longer feet or longer tail to balance or bouth. And after makeing 2 of them I start to see they are more funny than scary Maybe I use some other aliens miniature if I find them
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Post by Christopher Roe on Jan 22, 2017 12:51:19 GMT -9
Hey, Christopher Roe, this talk of Gun Crawl led me to open up the files and look into printing out the set. Which in turn led me to printing out and reading the assembly instructions included in the set, in which--among other things--you show how to perfect-bind a printable book at home. I'm dying to try this out, but I want to be sure I've got the right kinds of glue. In the instructions, you call for flexible-bond contact adhesive, and no-wrinkle rubber cement. Are these the right sort of products for the project? Elmer's Contact AdhesiveElmer's No-Wrinkle Rubber CementBy the way, your use of binder clips and rulers to hold the pages together while you spread the glue is brilliant! I have a long-arm stapler, and I do a lot of home saddles-stitching of thinner books. Now that I've started using binder clips to hold the pages together, I don't have to worry about them shifting while I line them up to staple. (My manual stapler can punch through about 24 sheets of regular paper, plus a cardstock cover, so I can do books up to about 80-90 pages; I print the PDFs out using the booklet setting, and the books come out great.) But hopefully, your perfect-binding method will let me do thicker books. I can't wait to try it out on the Gun Crawl rules! Yep, that contact cement looks like it'll work. The stuff I used was stinky and came in a tube, and I can't remember the brand. It was something I picked up from a local store. If memory serves, bookbinders normally use a different formulation of PVA than what you get with craft glue, and that violated my "must be something you can source at your local Walmart" rule, so I went with the other alternative that some bookbinders use (the contact cement). The binder clips and rulers are another bookbinder trick for when you don't have an actual book press handy, and those are readily available at office supply stores and Walmart. I've built my own book press out of wood and bolts, but that's a bit much to ask of the end user, so I went with the simpler and more accessible rulers-binder-clips-contact cement method. Another thing I'm a fan of when I'm in a hurry are ZipBind spines--I had a little Proclick machine that punched out the holes, and I'd snip the spines flush to fit smaller pages. They're great for things you want to lay flat and don't look too chintzy.
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