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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 9, 2017 12:10:28 GMT -9
Your work is simply amazing!
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 9, 2017 16:38:22 GMT -9
I think the tiles would look great in a post-apocalyptic, Mad Max type setting. I'd love to see you turn these tents into a post-apocalyptic version made out of trash primarily. That's a really good idea, but it's a separate release. (Heck, you're just a texture and an entrance tunnel away from having an igloo, if you really wanted it...) Just get the ones you've already got up for sale!
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Post by nolabert on May 9, 2017 18:12:24 GMT -9
That's a really good idea, but it's a separate release. (Heck, you're just a texture and an entrance tunnel away from having an igloo, if you really wanted it...) Just get the ones you've already got up for sale! Yep. I agree. Release the orc/goblinoid version and then consider other skins later, like a post-apocalyptic version with rebar and plastic trash/sheeting.
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Post by lightning on May 9, 2017 20:00:00 GMT -9
Stop teasing! Ship it already! Haha, thanks. On it!!! Just a couple of things to complete. Your work is simply amazing! Thank you very much! I think the tiles would look great in a post-apocalyptic, Mad Max type setting. I'd love to see you turn these tents into a post-apocalyptic version made out of trash primarily. That's a really good idea, but it's a separate release. (Heck, you're just a texture and an entrance tunnel away from having an igloo, if you really wanted it...) Just get the ones you've already got up for sale! I love the trash material version idea, but yes I am going to leave the other wall texture versions (cloth, fur, trash) for separate releases then. They would take some time to perfect. OK, here is my to-do list before I can go live: - texture the roof opening top (for those who don't want open roof hut) - add some more symbols - add rocks and plants bottom line layer to walls (just for a better texture transition) - make instructions - make promo shots I believe I should be finished by end of week or maybe middle of next week the latest. So go create some cool game scenarios and get your minis ready in the meantime!
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Post by lightning on May 10, 2017 5:53:18 GMT -9
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 10, 2017 15:21:19 GMT -9
This looks like that Tusken Raider village, three minutes before Anakin came for a visit...
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 10, 2017 18:23:37 GMT -9
I am running a lot of layers already. Don't know how many I can add more before the file becomes a monster in terms of usability ... I try to stay below 50, but I've gone up to 200 on the Brotherhood sets. It's frikking slow but it works, and I decided it was worth it for the flexibility in that case. The Meadow set also has an insane amount of layers... well over 100. When I do go overboard like that, I generally try to add some sort of progress bar to let people know that it is still working.
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Post by lightning on May 10, 2017 19:08:43 GMT -9
I am running a lot of layers already. Don't know how many I can add more before the file becomes a monster in terms of usability ... I try to stay below 50, but I've gone up to 200 on the Brotherhood sets. It's frikking slow but it works, and I decided it was worth it for the flexibility in that case. The Meadow set also has an insane amount of layers... well over 100. When I do go overboard like that, I generally try to add some sort of progress bar to let people know that it is still working. I think mine are about 50. What kind of progress bar? For opening the file? I have no idea how to add any logic to a pdf. I have seen some of you making these selection menus that turn layers on and off but have no idea how and where that is done. I make my final step in illustrator and then save as pdf.
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Post by lightning on May 11, 2017 8:56:16 GMT -9
I think I got everything finished now except for the instructions and promo shoot. These are the signs I came up with (white versions): snake and scorpio because the are desert animals and the sun because the desert is hot :-) I guess it would be an important celestial body for a primitive culture. If I have time I will also make some shaman feathers and bone ornament. Nothings says shaman more than feathers and bones!
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 11, 2017 13:42:14 GMT -9
What kind of progress bar? For opening the file? I have no idea how to add any logic to a pdf. I have seen some of you making these selection menus that turn layers on and off but have no idea how and where that is done. The file opens quick... it just takes ages to draw each layer, and even if the layer isn't on then it still delays the drawing process. The way I do the progress bar is to add a frame of the progress bar animation into every 10th or 15th layer so as it draws the layers, the progress bar seems to go up until it's finished drawing all the layers.
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 11, 2017 14:11:24 GMT -9
The way I do the progress bar is to add a frame of the progress bar animation into every 10th or 15th layer so as it draws the layers, the progress bar seems to go up until it's finished drawing all the layers. It sounds like you're using real Adobe Acrobat, instead of Scribus or the Save As PDF option in something like Word, GIMP, or Illustrator. Is it possible to add that kind of functionality (Javascript, I presume?) without using honest-to-God Acrobat?
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Post by lightning on May 11, 2017 22:37:43 GMT -9
The way I do the progress bar is to add a frame of the progress bar animation into every 10th or 15th layer so as it draws the layers, the progress bar seems to go up until it's finished drawing all the layers. It sounds like you're using real Adobe Acrobat, instead of Scribus or the Save As PDF option in something like Word, GIMP, or Illustrator. Is it possible to add that kind of functionality (Javascript, I presume?) without using honest-to-God Acrobat? Oh, that would explain why I don't know about that. Have never worked with the Acrobat editor
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 12, 2017 0:46:38 GMT -9
I know that Marshall, printableheroes, does beautiful, easy-to-use PDFs that handle layers with buttons that cycle through available options, much like bravesirkevin's PDFs. I assume that they are both using some Javascript to make that happen.
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Post by lightning on May 12, 2017 1:14:30 GMT -9
I know that Marshall, printableheroes , does beautiful, easy-to-use PDFs that handle layers with buttons that cycle through available options, much like bravesirkevin 's PDFs. I assume that they are both using some Javascript to make that happen. If would love to learn a way that would not involve getting Acrobat! In the meantime, after completing the first bulk of instructions images, I made a prototype of the tusks ornaments which could work (which I will add later, no release delayed because of this :-) ) Looking forward to texture them.
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 12, 2017 8:18:27 GMT -9
I know that Marshall, printableheroes, does beautiful, easy-to-use PDFs that handle layers with buttons that cycle through available options, much like bravesirkevin's PDFs. I assume that they are both using some Javascript to make that happen. I do create my PDFs by exporting a layered PDF from Illustrator. I only use Acrobat Pro to set up my javascript buttons and to optimise the PDF before shipping. Acrobat Pro is an essential part of my workflow however, just for those two vital functions. I don't need fancy javascript for the progress bars at all. It just exploits the way that acrobat draws the layers sequentially from the bottom up. If you look at any of the Deluxe edition mini sets I released last year, or the Meadow tiles set, you'll see it in action. I do use some really complicated Javascript to do the interactivity though. Having a button to turn a layer on or off is not that complex, but quite often my configs require turning two layers on or off simultaneously, and that's a little trickier. In the Brotherhood sets, clicking a button might turn 4 or 5 layers on, while turning 4 or 5 other layers off. If you had to go into the acrobat layers panel, you could manually turn the layers on and off, but you'd get weird results. The "Random" buttons in my Deluxe sets have well over 500 lines of code. That's especially true of the ones in the Meadow and Constables on Patrol sets, because in those sets certain combinations are a lot more aesthetically pleasing than others, so I coded them specifically to try and randomly generate those more beautiful configurations slightly more frequently, and the uglier configs a lot less frequently.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 12, 2017 8:42:59 GMT -9
Not to distact too much from the main topic, and perhaps using Acrobat Pro to make PDFs is better, but I've found that Acrobat reader will draw the whole region of a layer, whether the pixels are transparent or not, and this kills performance. I used to be lazy since most PDFs I ever make are not very interesting, and it's easier to align a bunch of 8.5x11" images than it is to properly position a bunch of tiny images. But I found that for a LOT of layers, minimizing the size of each image on a layer is hugely important for performance.
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Post by lightning on May 12, 2017 8:53:00 GMT -9
Thanks Kev for the update. I hope to do something similar sometime in the future but not now. I have the same requirements in the sense that I turning on one layer would mean to turn off a group of others, but for not that has to be done manually :-)
In terms of file optimizations I have also found that minimizing each image where it is possible makes a huge difference. I even lower resolution for layers where it is not important, like dirt effects. I know in these days file sizes are not that much of an importance (with people streaming GB of movies each day) but I still try to make the as compact as possible.
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 12, 2017 9:07:14 GMT -9
Not to distact too much from the main topic, and perhaps using Acrobat Pro to make PDFs is better, but I've found that Acrobat reader will draw the whole region of a layer, whether the pixels are transparent or not, and this kills performance. I used to be lazy since most PDFs I ever make are not very interesting, and it's easier to align a bunch of 8.5x11" images than it is to properly position a bunch of tiny images. But I found that for a LOT of layers, minimizing the size of each image on a layer is hugely important for performance. I've found the same, and my newer PDFs are designed with that in mind. The Slice tool in Photoshop is actually quite helpful in this regard. PDFs were never intended for the sort of abuse that we put them through, which is probably why Acrobat doesn't perform optimally. One of the more frustrating things is that there's a delay as it cycles through each of the deactivated layers almost as bad as the delay when it has to render an activated one, which is clearly indicative that they've opted for an extremely inefficient approach and sadly, there's not much we can do about that (short of keeping the layers and customisation options down to a minimum), but I've found that the progress bar thing makes the delay a little less excruciating, because it actually shows that something is happening while you wait.
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 12, 2017 11:52:55 GMT -9
This is all super useful, everyone. Thanks to everyone involved for sharing your expertise.
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 12, 2017 12:02:14 GMT -9
Thanks Kev for the update. I hope to do something similar sometime in the future but not now. I have the same requirements in the sense that I turning on one layer would mean to turn off a group of others, but for not that has to be done manually :-) In terms of file optimizations I have also found that minimizing each image where it is possible makes a huge difference. I even lower resolution for layers where it is not important, like dirt effects. I know in these days file sizes are not that much of an importance (with people streaming GB of movies each day) but I still try to make the as compact as possible. Acrobat Pro's optimisation is a little more fancy than that, and it's also automatic. You just need to set the options and hit the button and it does everything for you. It does compress all the images nicely, and also compresses the entire PDF after that, often reducing the file size down to a tiny fraction of the uncompressed PDF. It will embed any fonts if it needs to, ensuring that the end user doesn't need to have their own copy of the font. It also strips out all duplicate images, and automatically trims all images down, cropping any pixels outside of clipping paths and so on, as well as downsampling any images that have more resolution than required. It strips out any data that doesn't need to be there, including all metadata that could accidentally reveal personally identifiable information about you or your computer, to unscrupulous hackers out there. That feature alone makes Acrobat Pro worthwhile, but there are quite a few other advantages too. You have quite a lot of control over things like the layers and the bookmarks, and can control whether a layer is printable (which is helpful if you want to have fancy stuff on the screen but still save ink for your customers). You can also lock the PDF to prevent tampering, which is useful in a lot of ways, even though I never use it on my papercraft sets because I don't want to discourage kitbashing.
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Post by lightning on May 12, 2017 21:59:49 GMT -9
Thanks Kev for the update. I hope to do something similar sometime in the future but not now. I have the same requirements in the sense that I turning on one layer would mean to turn off a group of others, but for not that has to be done manually :-) In terms of file optimizations I have also found that minimizing each image where it is possible makes a huge difference. I even lower resolution for layers where it is not important, like dirt effects. I know in these days file sizes are not that much of an importance (with people streaming GB of movies each day) but I still try to make the as compact as possible. Acrobat Pro's optimisation is a little more fancy than that, and it's also automatic. You just need to set the options and hit the button and it does everything for you. It does compress all the images nicely, and also compresses the entire PDF after that, often reducing the file size down to a tiny fraction of the uncompressed PDF. It will embed any fonts if it needs to, ensuring that the end user doesn't need to have their own copy of the font. It also strips out all duplicate images, and automatically trims all images down, cropping any pixels outside of clipping paths and so on, as well as downsampling any images that have more resolution than required. It strips out any data that doesn't need to be there, including all metadata that could accidentally reveal personally identifiable information about you or your computer, to unscrupulous hackers out there. That feature alone makes Acrobat Pro worthwhile, but there are quite a few other advantages too. You have quite a lot of control over things like the layers and the bookmarks, and can control whether a layer is printable (which is helpful if you want to have fancy stuff on the screen but still save ink for your customers). You can also lock the PDF to prevent tampering, which is useful in a lot of ways, even though I never use it on my papercraft sets because I don't want to discourage kitbashing. That is basically what I do manually! I AM Acrobat Pro :-)
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 13, 2017 3:02:48 GMT -9
So for a recreational user, how much does acrobat pro cost?
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 13, 2017 3:18:43 GMT -9
Roughly US$200-$500, depending on the version you want. Or you can subscribe for about US$24 per month, or as little as US$15 if you prepay for a year. Yikes, right?
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Post by lightning on May 13, 2017 6:17:20 GMT -9
Roughly US$200-$500, depending on the version you want. Or you can subscribe for about US$24 per month, or as little as US$15 if you prepay for a year. Yikes, right? That's why for now I don't want to buy it. As long as I can do it myself. But I can see a day where I will have to use it when projects have to be released faster.
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 13, 2017 12:41:56 GMT -9
Roughly US$200-$500, depending on the version you want. Or you can subscribe for about US$24 per month, or as little as US$15 if you prepay for a year. Yikes, right? That's the price if you choose to subscribe to Acrobat Pro alone. They have several different packages that offer better value based on the spread of apps you have access to.
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Post by lightning on May 13, 2017 20:51:28 GMT -9
In the process of finishing up I make another post on my site, compiling the next steps of developing the textures. Have a look here if you interested
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Post by oldschooldm on May 15, 2017 13:11:34 GMT -9
Ship it! You're missing sales! I would have linked to your product, if it was shipping!
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Post by lightning on May 15, 2017 23:34:49 GMT -9
aaand ... done! :-) I made a shamans totem layer yesterday for a new entrance flap sign (really wanted to have this in) and updated the cut files. www.drivethrurpg.com/product/211861/Savages-Settlements-Small-HutsI'll post it just here today. Will go all public tomorrow. Let me know if you guys find anything I should fix. Now let's see how it fares. Have lots of ideas for this series ... Thanks for your push oldschooldm
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Post by kgstanley81 on May 16, 2017 9:13:35 GMT -9
I'll have to wait until Friday
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Post by lightning on May 17, 2017 1:09:48 GMT -9
I'll have to wait until Friday It'll still be there Thanks for the interest! I appreciate the buzz I feel about this set. Really looking forward to make the other buildings! If you get the set, don't forget to please 5 star it and if you have the time, a nice feedback is always welcome Here is a shot of the last deco element I made: the shaman totem
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