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Post by mesper on Jan 22, 2018 17:15:54 GMT -9
Indians #1 - Wild West Set #3 PERMES Historical Series Available now at RPGnow and WargameVault sites:RPGnow Direct LinkThis set contains 15 front and back artwork Wild West Indian minis, including warchiefs, shamans and warriors: • Apache Warriors • Sioux Warchief and Warrior • Shamans • Delaware Warriors • Kiowa Warriors • Mohican Warrior Previews:All minis, parts, accessories and elements of scenery are 300dpi 30mm front and back full colour artwork suitable both for RPG and wargaming. Three universal wide bases (grass, sand and rock) included. Enjoy! Mesper
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Post by cowboyleland on Jan 23, 2018 5:03:42 GMT -9
This is a great looking set but you might run in to trouble with the name. English speakers aren't suppose to say "Indians" any more except for people from India. In Canada we say "First Nations." I have heard both "Native Americans" and "Amerindians" on American radio. "Souix" is actually a Cree insult for Dakota (though I understand it is sometimes "reclaimed" by the Dakota themselves.) I wish I had a catchy alternative to offer.
Just thought I should let you know.
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Post by Vermin King on Jan 23, 2018 5:34:01 GMT -9
cowboyleland has a point. My first thought was 'I'd never get away with calling the indigenous peoples 'Indians'' I was watching a program on PBS last night and 'indigenous peoples' was commonly used. I don't believe they used the term 'Native Americans' once, but they did talk about the native peoples and native tribes. It can be a touchy subject here ... sometimes. Is it Dakota or Lakota? Although I have heard people from that tribe refer to the Sioux Nation. It might be a case similar to needing to be black to use the 'N' word. As this is already released, I don't think I would change the name, but be prepared for someone to be touchy about it. Maybe consider responses to potential comments, so that you will be prepared. The thing is when you use the phrase 'Wild West Indians' people immediately know what to expect, and they know the setting the figures fit into. American Indians or Native Americans would work, but they sometimes resent that they were forced to be Americans. I dunno
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Post by cowboyleland on Jan 25, 2018 13:25:05 GMT -9
As I understand it "Lakota," "Nakota" and "Dakota" are dialects of the same language spoken by closely related groups.
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Post by lightning on Jan 26, 2018 22:30:34 GMT -9
I know this is a very sad part in the history of America but I wonder what do these native indians (or whatever the correct term these days is) call themselves as a whole? Here in Austria we also just call them "Indianer" (basically indians). But regarding the actual product, great rendition of ... them, mesper.
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Post by Vermin King on Jan 27, 2018 6:03:59 GMT -9
I know this is a very sad part in the history of America but I wonder what do these native indians (or whatever the correct term these days is) call themselves as a whole? Here in Austria we also just call them "Indianer" (basically indians). But regarding the actual product, great rendition of ... them, mesper. I totally agree
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Post by cowboyleland on Jan 27, 2018 10:26:52 GMT -9
what do these native indians (or whatever the correct term these days is) call themselves as a whole? As I said, here in Canada we seem to have settled on "First Nations" but that does not seem to be a thing in the U.S. The politics are rather different despite the similarities, much like Austria and Germany.
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Post by mesper on Jan 27, 2018 22:50:06 GMT -9
Thanks for comments and suggestions! Have to admit that wasn't aware regarding this specific naming issue. However it seems to me as kinda new and very American (both US and Canada) thing. I hope that nobody will feel offended, it wasn't my intention by any means! When I was a child, I read Karol May's books - you know Winnetou, Old Shatterhand, Old Surehand etc:) (Winnetou - Wikipedia)These books were about Indians, trappers and cowboys. As children, we used to play Indians and Cowboys. Toys, books, and comics were (and still are here) all about the +Indians+ of the Wild West. Then as far as I know in most European languages (incl. German, French, Polish, Russian) Wild West Indians are still Indians:) BTW the inhabitants of India are called here Hindus (Hindi), so there are no issues or problems with distinguishing. Well, as Vermin King mentioned it's rather too late to change the set tittle (then I have also Indian Canoe, Indian Hunters and Mounted Indians set almost finished, so changes would affect a lot of pages), but I'll consider these suggestions in future projects - thanks! BTW there was no problems with EASY SCENERY Wild West Indian Camp set:
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Post by lightning on Jan 28, 2018 1:50:35 GMT -9
Same in Austria. Our first contact with "Indians" was the Apache chief Winnetou (talking in french accent :-) ) and the Serbian Army acting most of the Indians. How I loved the books and movies. Karl May wrote the Indians I knew as a kid as noble natives fighting with the few noble white men against the corrupt white and corrupt "red skins". So it took some time for me to learn all the historic details (not all natives were nobles and not all white were the bad guys). As a kid "Indian" was an honour! It's good to hear how this topic is viewed on the other side of the Atlantic and I would love to hear if you feel this naming has damaged your promotion mesper. I am hoping you'll get the benefit of the doubt for being an US-foreigner yet great artist!
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Post by Rhannon on Jan 28, 2018 3:15:06 GMT -9
... Then as far as I know in most European languages ( incl. German, French, Polish, Russian) Wild West Indians are still Indians:) BTW the inhabitants of India are called here Hindus (Hindi), so there are no issues or problems with distinguishing. Inc. Italian. ;-)
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Post by Vermin King on Jan 28, 2018 5:31:22 GMT -9
It is more of an issue here because we are closer where issues took place and where most of the descendants still live
Across the ocean here, we can still talk about Nazis and Death Camps, which I understand is illegal in parts of Europe. I'm sure that every area of the globe (except maybe Antarctica ) has subjects that folks have trouble dealing with.
It is probably obvious that I believe we shouldn't censor history. Who said 'Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it'?
My guess is that 'Indians' hasn't offended anyone yet. If it hasn't offended anyone thus far, it probably won't, or it will be rare in the future
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Post by cowboyleland on Jan 28, 2018 8:44:14 GMT -9
The parts of Europe I have visited mention Nazis and Death Camps regularly. In Germany it is illegal to deny that millions were killed in the camps. As Vermin King says, since the camp set has been around for two years and no one has complained yet you are probably OK. If it ever turns into a problem I think I would suggest "Wild West Natives" which no one probably says now but everyone would know what it means.
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Post by mesper on Jan 30, 2018 11:24:17 GMT -9
In search of West Indies - here is the man responsible for the confused naming
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Post by cowboyleland on Jan 31, 2018 8:36:22 GMT -9
Is this coming soon?
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Jan 31, 2018 8:40:51 GMT -9
I'm just going to say this: every single Native American I have known personally has wanted to be called Indian.
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Post by cowboyleland on Jan 31, 2018 9:14:35 GMT -9
Interesting. That is not my experience. One of the players in my weekly group is solidly "First Nations" or Mohawk.
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Post by lightning on Jan 31, 2018 11:49:57 GMT -9
In search of West Indies - here is the man responsible for the confused naming Old fool Christoforo Colombo!
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Jan 31, 2018 12:14:12 GMT -9
Interesting. That is not my experience. One of the players in my weekly group is solidly "First Nations" or Mohawk. Sounds like you're in Canada. I'm in the States, in a melting pot community. Employees, friends, girlfriends, and one night stands all preferred "Indian" lol
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Post by wyvern on Jan 31, 2018 12:33:20 GMT -9
I'm just idly curious here. Does this "Indian" problem extend to reshowings of the old Western movies and TV series' in the US and/or Canada?
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Jan 31, 2018 13:03:50 GMT -9
I will try to remember to ask my parents when they visit this weekend. They are big Westerns fans.
As an aside, my wife is a Cora Indian from Nayarit, Mexico. She identifies as Mexican and says she is from Nayarit, not Mexico. The U.S. Census insists she is white, because you can't be Native American in the USA without a recognized tribe affiliation, despite the fact that she trace her roots all the way back into the mountains. So, it can get complicated.
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Post by mesper on Feb 2, 2018 10:07:27 GMT -9
I doubt, although I have some old, preliminary drafts'n'sketches, including Inca, Aztec, Olmec Indians. But then it's SO interesting and wide topic, that limitation to one or two sets simply wouldn't give justice - and I just can't address enough time for another one big and long-term project. Kinda pity that Patreon is not available here Anyway, some sneak peaks:
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Post by marzman on Feb 3, 2018 7:35:41 GMT -9
I would LOVE to have some CONQUISTADORS to terrorize my players with in Fantasy, especially with their black powder weapons!
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Post by Rhannon on Feb 3, 2018 10:35:00 GMT -9
...I doubt, although I have some old, preliminary drafts'n'sketches, including Inca, Aztec, Olmec Indians. But then it's SO interesting and wide topic, that limitation to one or two sets simply wouldn't give justice - and I just can't address enough time for another one big and long-term project... ... Yes! ... but I think that even just one or two sets are better, much better, than nothing.
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Post by mesper on Feb 6, 2018 16:34:06 GMT -9
... Yes! ... but I think that even just one or two sets are better, much better, than nothing. Well, in fact you'd probably be in a very small number of people interested in this topic, I'm afraid...
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Post by mesper on Feb 6, 2018 16:40:14 GMT -9
When I searched for some more resources about the Indians ... Indian Reservation - Orlando Riva Sound | Full HD |" They took the whole Cherokee nation, put as into this reservation...
...and some day Cherokee Indian will Return!
Cherokee people, Cherokee tribe - so pride to live, so pride to die!
" BTW Sophia Reaney is the dancer/singer name I believe, but she's not a native Indian AFAIK she's European?
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Post by cowboyleland on Feb 6, 2018 18:58:39 GMT -9
A quick google says Orlando Riva Sound was a German band though I think "Reaney" is a surname from the British Isles but it is known in Canada. (a poet/playwright and a hockey player) I know the Paul Revere and the Raiders version that song from an old LP I found as a kid: www.youtube.com/watch?v=21ixwIaN7qw The music is better but the scenery isn't as nice (or nearly as exploitative.) The song's history goes back further: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Reservation_(The_Lament_of_the_Cherokee_Reservation_Indian)I feel like this isn't the first time you posted a link to dancing girls. I remember something about "research" for elves and fairies?
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Post by mesper on Mar 19, 2018 13:58:07 GMT -9
More Wild West Indians are coming - mounted warriors this time! Here's a small preview of part of the content of the set. (BTW - those in plume feathers will of course also be on horses:)
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Post by Toman on Mar 19, 2018 14:15:21 GMT -9
can't wait! still need the first one though. would love some dark age Skrealing sets to fight my vikings. but perhaps with your sets and the other sets I have I might be able to cobble together enough figures that would work.
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