shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 15, 2019 1:24:20 GMT -9
So, because of a translation/editing job I came into contact with the neat skirmish game Carnevale. The game is set in Venice in 1795, and the gangs of La Serenissima struggle for domination and survival under the influence of the Rent in the Sky, a transdimensional rift that opened above Europe and changed the face of the Earth forever. The oceans, including the Mediterranian, flooded the coasts, and eldritch horrors made their way into our reality. Only Venice remains a beacon of light and hope for humanity. However, this is only the surface of things. In Venice, five human and two monstrous factions fight for domination, following their individual secret agendas. While the days may be filled with hope, in the nights, the canals run red with blood… Carnevale is more than just a tabletop game, it includes very cinematic actions and movements, and it is kind of a storytelling game, too. It's easy to learn, and the mechanics are fascinatingly fast and smooth. The 2-player-starter-set includes 2 gangs of 100 ducats (points) each (15 resin minis in total), a gondola, three of those red/white poles typical for Venice, 9 tiles (12" x 12") with canals on one side and open water on the other (giving you a modular playfield), dice (d10's), and a total of 16 box-style fold-flat cardboard houses (8 two-storey, 8 one-storey, in both categories 4 neat and shiny and 4 somewhat shabby). There are also markers and the usual measuring tools and templates, however, everything coming in clear acrylic, not cardboard. Here in Germany, the box comes for around 80 Euros, which is a very decent price for what you get. And I already spent some evenings painting my gangs... Of course, I am planning to add some cardboard jems to my terrain, like a modular palazzo, a winged lion fountain, and perhaps famous Rialto bridge...
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 15, 2019 4:31:54 GMT -9
I used to have the Rialto Bridge on the dead computer... This looks pretty sweet Have you considered giving berneart76's buildings a Venetian make-over? EDIT-- I do have a couple Epinals on this computer Edit #2-- Rialto Bridge, courtesy of the Victoria & Albert Museum And probably not much use, but One interesting tidbit, on Part E of that one, Giacomo di Casanova's house is to the far left
|
|
|
Post by cowboyleland on Nov 15, 2019 6:54:10 GMT -9
Those figures look great! No way I could paint like that. I remember being frustrated at the lack of good terrain I could find when I was running a clock punk campaign in Venice. I will see if I saved anything worth sharing.
|
|
|
Post by squirmydad on Nov 15, 2019 7:27:47 GMT -9
That looks great! Do the buildings stack? I'd love to see a Rialto bridge in game scale.
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 15, 2019 10:10:12 GMT -9
In the course of trying to find paper models, I found some great images. Maybe I could knock together some little free-standing things
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 16, 2019 10:58:38 GMT -9
Ca' d'Oro is the palace that has really caught my eye en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca%27_d%27OroCalled the Golden Palace, because much of the facade was gilded with the panels in between 'polychrome', many-colored. The building just rings out to me as being what I think of as Venetian as far as the unification of so many influences. You can even see hints of the colors in some of the photos, so if the really white parts are thought of as gilded and using the photos I have of the hinted at colors, I am thinking of getting side-tracked again and doing my interpretation of this, like the Egyptian Temple Pylon. We think of Venice in terms of what we see now. I'd like to picture it as it was in the early 1400's when this little gem was built. A lot of the original walls are still intact Isn't that gorgeous? Imagine sunlight or chandeliers reflecting from it. Besides having the loggia where visitors on business would enter, there is also a street entrance into a small courtyard with a gothic staircase going up to the private residence on the second and third floors. If shep doesn't want to give it a try, I might I think most people wouldn't want the gilded look, though. So I might try it with a light rosy pink for the panel color and white for the framing. It is actually brick on the other sides
|
|
|
Post by mesper on Nov 16, 2019 11:53:16 GMT -9
Venice - been there a few times - I have my favorite places (some now flooded), so many memories, some now bittersweet... And now it all returns with what - c'mon - some cardboard models?!? Just brings back the memories... So (while you can!) just carpe diem...
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 16, 2019 19:34:23 GMT -9
I was only there for less than 36 hours back in 1981, and I still have a boatload of memories.
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 17, 2019 9:15:25 GMT -9
The buildings from the starter game are simple boxes, so yes, they are obviously stackable (to a certain degree). The MDF buildings TTCombat sells seperately, however, come in two types. Some of them are modular, so you can add floors beyond the ground floor. Some need to be build like they are intended. There is extra stuff available, etc. The MDF line is called Streets of Venice. The stuff looks awesome, and is relatively cheap (when compared to MDF buildings from other companies). However, you need to glue the models together, you cannot just build them, and later take them apart again for storage. I've been to Venice for two days in the very early 2000's. Far too many tourists, for my taste, but the gondola ride was fun, especially along the quieter side canals. I always wanted to visit Venice during the Carnevale, but at the rate La Serenissima is sinking right now, I guess I'd should dress up as SCUBA diver, if I were to go there this season...
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 17, 2019 9:23:19 GMT -9
Ca' d'Oro is the palace that has really caught my eye If shep doesn't want to give it a try, I might I think most people wouldn't want the gilded look, though. So I might try it with a light rosy pink for the panel color and white for the framing. It is actually brick on the other sides Why don't we both give it a try? I think, I'd take a route much similar to my Temple of the Gods, with the staircase and the well in the courtyard being extra parts, and the balconies being as fold-flat as the entire Building and yard. With the roof and bottom of the palazzo, I'd probably lean in the direction of the box houses from the Carnevale starter... Hmm, what a nice challenge.
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 17, 2019 11:46:47 GMT -9
If I do something like this, it would have to be 'inspired by', not 'a model of'. Take a look at the door in the Loggia. It is a tall grand door, maybe about 3 meters tall, which puts the ceiling at roughly 5 meters, so not quite 2-story by today's standards. It appears that ceilings are about the same on the two personal levels. So, roughly a 6-story building with only three floors. I'm not sure exactly how to break it up. I was thinking I might try having stackable floors
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 17, 2019 12:22:55 GMT -9
Well, "inspired by" is far better than "ignored by"...
|
|
|
Post by Rhannon on Nov 17, 2019 14:21:50 GMT -9
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 17, 2019 23:44:42 GMT -9
I already have those, however, so far, I did not find the drive to start calculating the re-scale to 32 mm heroic scale. (Why do minis get larger and larger with every new game? In five years, we're gonna be playing with 20 cm statues...) Nonetheless, thanks for the links.
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 17, 2019 23:48:07 GMT -9
I started working on the Ca d'Oro, scaling and warping the waterfront to fit with the game's houses. I had to clip part of the front, and re-created the crown around the roof. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how I'll get the house to fold flat in the end... I'll come up with something. Here's a WiP pic...
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 18, 2019 18:35:25 GMT -9
Well, if I do a Rialto Bridge, it isn't going to be scale. 157 feet would be 2.85 feet long. I doubt anyone wants that. But I have also seen it as 136 feet. And how wide? I've seen it listed as low as 7.5 m, but the diagram shows 75 ft. structurae.net/en/structures/rialto-bridge gives it 22.9m, close enough. But www.archinform.net/projekte/389.htm gives the width of the arch as 29.2 ft. But since I already am not doing it to scale, do the numbers really matter ... not really, I guess. If it really is 157 feet long, I don't think it is really 75 feet wide, but it certainly is wider than 29 feet. Would folks even consider building it, if I make it two feet long? At two feet long and 10 inches wide, even with the two rows of shops, that would sure make an interesting play environ. EDIT-- I wouldn't have expected SkyscraperCity to be a good resource, but ... www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2136486
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 19, 2019 3:19:04 GMT -9
Well, if I do a Rialto Bridge, it isn't going to be scale. [...] Would folks even consider building it, if I make it two feet long? At two feet long and 10 inches wide, even with the two rows of shops, that would sure make an interesting play environ. [...] When I thought about doing a Rialto bridge for Carnevale, I took into considertion the bridges made for the game by TTCombat. They basically come in two sizes: spanning over 4 inches (for example Pietra Bridge) and spanning over 8 inches (for example Leon Bridge) In game terms that would be for a regular and for a wide canal. However, Rialto Bridge spans over the Canale Grande, the freckin' widest canal in all of Venice. When you look at pictures of the bridge, you can see that it was actually build into the canal on both sides before it arcs up. So, I originally thought of doing the bridge with a "regular" arc span of 8 inches, just like the large bridges in the game, and extending further out to make it like 12 inches long plus stairs/ramps. Also, I thought about just putting two rows of three shops each going up to the middle instead of the two rows of six shops the bridge has in RL. This would leave the finished bridge as a good model with some artistic freedom, but still recognizable for what it's supposed to be. On the other hand, with the usual play area being 3 x 3 feet, a 2 feet Rialto bridge would indeed be a spectacular scenario of its own. The tiles from the starter set have canals on one side and open water on the other. So, it would be no problem to lay out a play area with a large Canale Grande in the middle...
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 19, 2019 13:38:15 GMT -9
Okay, I think I'm making good progress with the "Casa Rosata". Aside from the waterfront, I now have the other walls, too... I made two versions of the backside, one with an additional building and a courtyard/garden, and one with just a back door. The sides of the palazzo. I found a photo that shows that they discontinued the spectacular front of the Ca' d'Oro, once it could no longer be seen from the canal... So far, so good... I started with the roof, but now I'm stuck. I need a locking mechanism that will allow to fold up the roof, lock the sides in place and allow a metal mini to stand on the roof top without destroying it. Any ideas?
|
|
|
Post by cowboyleland on Nov 19, 2019 13:53:29 GMT -9
I think two pairs of hooks at each corner of the roof would work to pull it into shape and then just glue some tabs (made of the margins trimmed from the page) to the underside of the eaves to lock it onto the top of the walls. But oldschooldm is the the master of the fold up building and he even put up a tutorial about it somewhere. Here is his video about it: www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=96&v=5bxNsaOo_84&feature=emb_logo
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 19, 2019 15:40:27 GMT -9
Okay, I think I'm making good progress with the "Casa Rosata". Aside from the waterfront, I now have the other walls, too... So far, so good... I started with the roof, but now I'm stuck. I need a locking mechanism that will allow to fold up the roof, lock the sides in place and allow a metal mini to stand on the roof top without destroying it. Any ideas? I first thought of mproteau (Paper Realms)'s modular roof method, cardboard-warriors.proboards.com/thread/6182/help-testing-modular-roof-system. After viewing oldschooldm's video again, I think you could do that tab/slot method for the roof, but to be more stable, do tabs at the base of each roof piece to slot into the walls, too. Should be strong enough to have quite a crew up there
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 19, 2019 16:07:53 GMT -9
I thought, I'd rest the roof on stripes of thick cardboard glued to the tops of the inside walls. I could even add a glue flap to one long side of the roof, so it could be glued to on long side of the building... I'll sleep over the options and pick one in the morning. But before I go to bed, here's a little something I made on the side (since scatter terrain is always useful, and I'll need one for the courtyard, anyway): A small Venetian well... PDF: bit.ly/35fiG4S
|
|
|
Post by Punkrabbitt on Nov 19, 2019 20:53:33 GMT -9
2.85 feet long makes it perfect to use as the whole boatd for a skirmish game.
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 19, 2019 21:38:53 GMT -9
2.85 feet long makes it perfect to use as the whole boatd for a skirmish game. As I said, a great scenario of its own...
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 20, 2019 4:51:44 GMT -9
Even at two feet, I'm having issues trying to break it up to print where there should be natural breaks. Would it make more sense doing a Rialto Bridge map?
EDIT--
A bit on where I'm at on this. I have quite a few images of the bridge and those structural drawings. Overlaying the squared up versions of the photos and paintings (I'm leaning towards using the painting versions as my base texture), it takes very little tweaking to line up with the structural drawings, and then using the Architecture Modelsime model to figure out how to turn it into a model. I still think I want to do a two-foot model, as that would allow for the walkways along the levees at the ends. That and I don't see this as fold-flat, two feet takes less space than 2.85 feet. Especially since I am already having issues trying to get from a 10-inch model to two feet without ugly joins. I might have just thought of an idea for the arch, so that it can be removed. I might have to try it out on a small version of this.
I think I will ignore the levee itself and have the canal at high tide, so that the bottom of the arch is the top of the water.
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 21, 2019 5:22:09 GMT -9
The Felucca mentioned in lightning's thread should probably have the discussion continued here. I found it when I was going through the JOssorio blog on paper soldiers, but not from his blog. I saw a ship posted, followed the link to a Pintrest site, which also had the Felucca. Rather than trying to actually get to the link, I will post my enlargement of the download (since I don't know how long it would take to actually figure out how I got to the original) Other than enlarging and doing a couple Unsharp Masks on it, it is not messed with. I haven't checked the sides to see if they match, but the borders makes me think that the image is not true (narrower at one end than the other). EDIT -- One thing I noticed in paintings is that the lateen sails were fairly common until early to mid 18th century, though they would use the square sails on the main mast in rough weather. I haven't gone in depth on that, but what I've read on the internet and seen in the paintings has led me to this conclusion. It could be incorrect EDIT #2 -- Google Maps, Satellite and Street views might help you with the Palazzo. I got quite a bit of info from there for the bridge
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 21, 2019 8:27:20 GMT -9
Ooh, I like that ship! In this rather small size, it might be a nice addition to my "Pirates of the Barbary Coast" ships... However, it will only get more blurry, when blown up any further. Perhaps, if I ever find the time, tracing the outlines with Photoshop's pen tool might do the trick. The resulting path could be scaled to any size without losing any detail... As for the Casa Rosata, I'm done with the courtyard, including the stairs. Next, I'll do the back building, turn everything into a nice PDF, and take that to the copyshop around the corner for printing (on 300 g/m² cardstock). I'll post pictures, when it's done, most probably this weekend, already.
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 24, 2019 14:31:51 GMT -9
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Nov 24, 2019 14:36:57 GMT -9
Wonderful. I really like your solution on the roof. Reminds me of some of the cut-out models from my youth. Sometimes the old ways are the best ways
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 24, 2019 14:56:57 GMT -9
Wonderful. I really like your solution on the roof. Reminds me of some of the cut-out models from my youth. Sometimes the old ways are the best ways Yeah, the roof... I totally miscalculated the length of the individual sides... again, just like with the Temple of the Gods. Now, the elevation of the roof actually adds a fourth floor to the palazzo. It's definitely going to be the center piece of every Carnevale setup... I also just painted the gaps between the crowns around the roof black, so I could leave them there for bonus support. Would be terrible, if the roof popped off in the middle of a game, wouldn't it?
|
|
shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
|
Post by shep on Nov 25, 2019 1:32:13 GMT -9
Two short bridges, spanning over 4" canals... Download Link: bit.ly/2rpHCb6Will add instructions, after I built them myself...
|
|