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Post by Antohammer on Feb 16, 2020 1:16:20 GMT -9
Hi guys (i m still alive) i was thinking to make stuff to make a wargame like total war.... yesterday i buyed from steam imperator rome, the game from paradox..... you know grand campaigns... you go conquer the world and stuff like that..... HYPE!!!!! I was then thinking to make a board game like total war where you move army on a map and then make battle using paper miniatures.... so i made the first roman hastati www.patreon.com/posts/republican-roman-34073238here s the link to the patreon page to download the first pdf. (the guys in the pdf are aleready resized to a 28mm scale) the png instead is here
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Post by alloydog on Feb 16, 2020 2:01:25 GMT -9
Looks good, I could definitely use them. But if I make a suggestion: In most massed battles, the combatants usually fought in very close order - practically shoulder to shoulder. The Romans would make a shield-wall and tend to slash or stab to the right, rather than directly in front, to minimise any gaps in the shield-wall. I believe the Greeks did this as well. I did a quick hack of your image to explain what I mean: Personally, I think that grouping figures into blocks looks better and also makes it easier to cut-out lots of figures.
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Post by Antohammer on Feb 16, 2020 10:11:53 GMT -9
Looks good, I could definitely use them. But if I make a suggestion: In most massed battles, the combatants usually fought in very close order - practically shoulder to shoulder. The Romans would make a shield-wall and tend to slash or stab to the right, rather than directly in front, to minimise any gaps in the shield-wall. I believe the Greeks did this as well. I did a quick hack of your image to explain what I mean: Personally, I think that grouping figures into blocks looks better and also makes it easier to cut-out lots of figures. so you suggest that i make them in groups.... i usually put them in 1 man base but i can give it a try...
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Post by alloydog on Feb 16, 2020 10:43:24 GMT -9
It's just my preference.
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Post by wyvern on Feb 17, 2020 5:18:37 GMT -9
The figure-block approach has already been used to great effect in the hard-copy-only paper mini books published by Helion (there are also a series of downloadable freebies from some of these to check-out as well here). The creator of those also sells additional armies and extra forces as downloads from his Peter's Paperboys website, including forces for Republican Rome and other ancient period armies. I've mentioned both of these sources previously on the CWF. Personally, I'd think there was room in the hobby for both approaches, but I may be biased as already having the ancient period books from Helion, and items from the Peter's Paperboys site, so am not that interested in seeing more of the same armies in block groups! Now, individual minis in a variety of poses would be a different matter
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 17, 2020 6:37:24 GMT -9
I don't think you are 'biased' really. Many of us here at the forums come from RPG communities, but those aren't the only games. We used to play war games that had 'units' moving against each other and the units would die as one or succeed as one. Could you imagine trying to play out Waterloo, Argonne or Midway with every soldier moving individually? Talk about a nightmare.
I haven't really played any games where a unit was five soldiers, but I could see how a game like that could be done
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Post by wyvern on Feb 18, 2020 2:50:58 GMT -9
Well, when I first started wargaming (didn't even know there was a name for it back then...), I used just the cast plastic Airfix figures (what we'd now think of as 20mm-scale; that was pretty much all there was at the time), so all my early battles (later medieval, Napoleonic, ACW and WW2) were fought with individual figures only. Not so much a nightmare, just how it was.
When I first discovered a book on wargames some years later, it turned out you could base the minis in small groups to make up units, but it was still useful to have some based individually so you could remove casualties and get a closer simulation of the wearing-down effect of actual combat on units. The approach was not to base units with too broad a frontage, so you could use the troops for both battle lines and manoeuvring columns. My plastic ACW forces are based in threes, for instance. A multiple of those threes makes up a full unit, determined by what figure ratio to actual numbers of combat troops is being used.
The Helion/Paperboys minis are similarly grouped, dependent on the type of unit involved. Thus those heavy infantry are based four wide, light infantry in threes, and so forth.
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Post by Antohammer on Feb 18, 2020 5:36:30 GMT -9
thankyou guys for yours opinions ...I m reworking the set to be made of a page of minia all by themselves and one page grouped in a line of four. this way both solutions will be available!!! I must admit now that wyvern pointed out that the ancient period is already covered for the romans..... damn this means only one thing.... after i complete the firs set or two for the romans i ll focus on rome enemyes and rpg usable stuff Vermin King i usually make single unit soldiers becouse i use my own wargaming system (the one with square grid if you rememenber it ^^ ).... .... where in the end there s a big ratio... so one full square of soldier usually 16 man rapresents hundreds do someone play rpg on ancient rome? i mean civilians and other stuff like that can be usefull or would be wasted time? ^^ .... (letting aside that i draw what comes trough my mind every time)
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Post by wyvern on Feb 19, 2020 3:06:17 GMT -9
I must admit now that wyvern pointed out that the ancient period is already covered for the romans..... damn this means only one thing.... after i complete the firs set or two for the romans i ll focus on rome enemyes and rpg usable stuff ... do someone play rpg on ancient rome? i mean civilians and other stuff like that can be usefull or would be wasted time? There's always room for more paper minis, even if a subject has been covered before, because people always like the option to have minis in different styles, I think. We've discussed previously on the CWF the differences between RPG and historical wargame mini needs - historical gamers prefer wholly accurate minis, as far as history/archaeology will allow, whereas RPGers are more forgiving of any differences/discrepancies in general, for instance. The RPG that springs immediately to my mind for Ancient Rome would be Cthulhu Invictus by Chaosium, part of their Call of Cthulhu stable of games, but there are other RPGs that use the ancient world as a setting, including Rome and its Empire. A quick trawl on DriveThru RPG came up with this half-dozen in just a couple of minutes' checking, and in no particular order: Eternal Rome (by Green Ronin) Requiem for Rome (by White Wolf, for their Vampire system) Roma Imperious (by HinterWelt) Mythic Rome (by Design Mechanism) Rolemaster Rome (by Arion Games) The Glory of Rome Campaign Sourcebook (for 2e D&D by Wizards of the Coast) There are others I'm aware of too, so this is nothing more than a not-quite random, and very partial, list! Personally, I'd welcome more ancient period civilians as well as warriors, because they have RPG uses far beyond the historical ancient period (e.g. time-travel scenarios), so I don't think I'd consider any such minis a waste of time
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Post by squirmydad on Feb 19, 2020 10:13:16 GMT -9
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Post by Antohammer on Feb 19, 2020 11:09:41 GMT -9
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Post by alloydog on Feb 19, 2020 20:26:16 GMT -9
I have just bought the PDF. I think it's great! I really do like the way you have presented the figures in multiple formats - not just singles & groups, but the different thickness of the black outline - the ones with no outline are my better for me, at least, when I print them at 15 mm. A thick black outline looks too heavy and distracts from the figures. But when I print at 28 mm, the black outline accentuates the figures. I do like the different colours as well. Just one point though... On the DriveThruRPG page and in the PDF, you have written: " Triari were the first line of soldiers in the early time of the republic. They were poorest soldiers and usually the first line to fight after the velites launched all their javelins." Where-as at the Penn. State University page The Armies of the Roman Republic, amongst others, says: " The Triarii were the third and most experienced line used in the legions of Republican Rome. The Triarii were the wealthiest members of the Roman infantry and were also the oldest usually aged somewhere in their thirties" Even if the figure supposed to be Hastati, then they were still of a higher social class than what you seem to descibe. From the same page: " The Hastati (Hastatus) were the first line of melee infantry used in Roman manipular formations. Members of the Hastati typically ranged in age from their early to mid twenties. The Hastati were also wealthier than the Velites and were therefore able to procure superior weapons and armor which were designed for close-quarters engagements." To me, it doesn't detract from the artwork, but some wargamers can be really anal over picky points like this and they might dismiss your figures because of the description. I know it seems like the Romans have been done to death with figures, but I think pretty much every period has been well covered. What I would think about, is something like find a specific battle, for example Battle of Cannae (216 BC), draw up figures for armies involved, at bit of general detail about the armies and battle and so on (plus a nice list of references) and present the thing as a ready to print-and-play battle in one package. I would sure go for that! It would save me and anyone else interested in maybe just starting wargaming, or trying another period, that sort of thing a quick and easy instant game.
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Post by alloydog on Feb 19, 2020 22:45:50 GMT -9
They scale down to 6 mm quite nicely as well: Maybe a bit of tweaking on the contrast to allow for the printer making it look a bit dull - but that's the printer side of things, not a fault of the artwork. You can knock up quite an impressive army!
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Post by Antohammer on Feb 20, 2020 12:12:55 GMT -9
alloydog thankyou a lot man i fixed it Interesting the 6mm thing... but i must admit i never expected someone to print em this size... i m curious to see them in battle
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