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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 11, 2020 6:56:29 GMT -9
It was a poorer quarter of Venice, but the roofs still held as Caterina da Padua leapt from flat to sloped roof, almost stumbling. The pursuing Lords of the Night began to fall behind as they were less willing to slip and fall into one of the small canals. She grinned as she heard a scream and a splash. Now, it was time to plan her revenge on whoever had slipped her name into one of the many Lion’s Mouths that were spread across the city. Venice: Back Alleys is NOT the Venice of merchants princes or romantic gondoliers. Its building represent the slums of the Serene Republic. Don’t think of double-dealing Doges or romantic gondoliers. Instead, smell the stench of backwater canals, dodge the bodies left by thugs or disease. The 4x6x6" buildings come in five color schemes with appliques of windows, doors, and storefronts with two different style roofs. They collapse for easier storage. Also included is a wooden bridge, a well head, canals, and ground. Remember, every Finger and Toe model comes with SMOOSH ASSURANCE: if ya’ll smoosh your Venice: Back Alleys, a new one waits your summons from hard drive and printer. Venice: Back Alleys is available from www.wargamevault.com for $5.00. Get it here: www.wargamevault.com/product/328101/Venice-Back-Alleys?src=newest
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 12, 2020 14:08:36 GMT -9
About what historical era are these good for? They look post-medieval.
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 12, 2020 15:37:18 GMT -9
With the right windows, these basic buildings can take you back to at least 1100. Yes, they even liked 'colorful ' even back that far. Keep in mind their close connections with the Byzantines
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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 14, 2020 5:56:49 GMT -9
About what historical era are these good for? They look post-medieval. Pretty much any time from medieval to present. If you look at the Piazza San Marco, the building directly opposite the basilica is actually Napoleonic era. Walk under the Orologio (to the left of the basilica) and down a few "streets" and you'll come to Marco Polo's house. So, if you want assassins hunting the Doge's Signori di Notti or Napoleon's troops seizing the city, you're good. Venice is kind of a theme park for history nerds. Our hotel was an old brothel. (Don't tell my wife)
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 14, 2020 6:12:27 GMT -9
'Casanova Slept Here' signs would be everywhere
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 23, 2020 6:11:22 GMT -9
glennwilliams, not sure I should be posting this question here, but it seemed logical to me right now. There have been a number of games set in areas with canals, not to name other folks' products. To me, it seems logical to have tile bases mounted on foamcore and canal tiles on the table, to give a little depth. Do you think gamers typically would prefer having the canals and pavement on the same level? I have seen it done both ways. I ask because if I can finish San Zandegola, I want to have a base for it to sit on
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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 24, 2020 6:12:04 GMT -9
glennwilliams, not sure I should be posting this question here, but it seemed logical to me right now. There have been a number of games set in areas with canals, not to name other folks' products. To me, it seems logical to have tile bases mounted on foamcore and canal tiles on the table, to give a little depth. Do you think gamers typically would prefer having the canals and pavement on the same level? I have seen it done both ways. I ask because if I can finish San Zandegola, I want to have a base for it to sit on The canals are a bit more complicated than rivers, since typically, there's quite a bit of elevation (unless the city is flooded, but then everything becomes an impromptu canal). Probably the foam core base is a good idea. I remember some of the canals as pretty twisty, so that's a complication. I actually went with the flat strips more for convenience and lower page count. There are two more Venice releases: the merchants' homes (actually pretty much ready to go) and bridges and canals. While I could easily put elevated Venetian base tiles in the set, as I did for the dead city streets, I think the foam core idea is much better. I'll put it in the instructions.
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 24, 2020 6:49:51 GMT -9
I am thinking that offering optional edge strips might be a good way to handle this. Make the edging stone strips the same width as foamcore thickness and folks could either do the multi-level method or just use it as decorative edging, or ignore it. I was doing some of the Casanova walking tours and noticed several buildings that border canals that would only look right if the ground was higher than the canal. Thanks for the feedback
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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 25, 2020 7:39:02 GMT -9
I am thinking that offering optional edge strips might be a good way to handle this. Make the edging stone strips the same width as foamcore thickness and folks could either do the multi-level method or just use it as decorative edging, or ignore it. I was doing some of the Casanova walking tours and noticed several buildings that border canals that would only look right if the ground was higher than the canal. Thanks for the feedback Great idea. My wife was in constant fear I'd fall into a canal as I was so enthralled I would turn around and around while walking, so I remember that all the canals are actually recessed. I'll add a page of strips, easy peasy.
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Post by monstersbtm on Sept 26, 2020 1:24:56 GMT -9
Hi gleen, thanks for your terrific work, those buildings are awesome and I have already bought a set. For the next ones, may I give you a couple of suggestions to increase playability and variety? Can you design a flat roof with a locking system similar to what corvus belli did with their cardboard scenery? It would give a nice parapet where should be possible to lock a bridge to connect diffent buildings (think something like the "Ponte dei sospiri"). Thank you!
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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 30, 2020 6:09:58 GMT -9
Hi gleen, thanks for your terrific work, those buildings are awesome and I have already bought a set. For the next ones, may I give you a couple of suggestions to increase playability and variety? Can you design a flat roof with a locking system similar to what corvus belli did with their cardboard scenery? It would give a nice parapet where should be possible to lock a bridge to connect diffent buildings (think something like the "Ponte dei sospiri"). Thank you! Parapets...probably not. I'm using Egle Trincantano's Venetian Domestic Architecture plus my own photos as my primary source. The book doesn't show parapet style roofs for Venice's lower middle class to poor sections, which is what the Venetian series is trying to model. For the Bridge of Sighs, again, probably not...but I'll think about it for the third Venice set which is bridges, canals, covered alleyways/galleries, etc. It would depend on page count. The large bridge is already more pages than I wanted. Let me think about it.
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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 30, 2020 7:19:24 GMT -9
How's this? It's 3" long and 1.5 wide. The tags on the end are so you can slip it over the walls and still fit the roof on the building. Texturing should be a snap--it will be wood with just a couple of windows. (remember, this isn't the rich or government part of town)
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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 30, 2020 8:07:50 GMT -9
Here's the completed bridge. I'll put it on a page and upload it here for free.
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Post by glennwilliams on Sept 30, 2020 8:51:19 GMT -9
OK, here's the bridge.
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Post by monstersbtm on Sept 30, 2020 23:54:31 GMT -9
Glenn, this is seriously a good thing! Well done! If you can texture it with bricks or stucco instead of wood it can be really perfect to close some alleys and connect buildings. I honestly can't tell you if in today's Venice are many wooden buildings but I cannot assume that there weren't in past centuries. Probably in the poorer areas.. You could squeeze it in a future release on wargamer vault or so.
Another nice thing that comes to my mind is a sotoportego structure : something that can be glued to the bottom of any piece of scenery to rise it and help create the cramped look of Venice. Thanks for the herd work and thank you for the free Bridge!
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 1, 2020 4:30:19 GMT -9
The wooden would be appropriate for before the Great Fire of the early 1500s, but at that time forward all structures would have to have a non-flammable exterior. On something like this (which is very common when you Google Street through the narrow winding streets of Venice), I don't think you would see much stone, but brick or stucco (over brick) would be common. I was surprised to see an article a few months back about a quarry on one of the islands. I know the main stone used in Venice came from Itria, but there was a quarry for cheaper stone. I also researched a stonewright's shop that I had seen in a Canaletto painting. Didn't get far, but it was located near the shore. I'm not sure if they had their own mini-wharf on the other side of the work buildings or if they had to cart ( or ship )the stone over from a larger wharf. With so much stone on the islands, I was just curious as to how stone was handled, especially since there were supposedly no horses on the islands. I didn't get far on this, but it just aroused my curiosity.
Can't seem to find any of the images I wanted to refer to...
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Post by monstersbtm on Oct 1, 2020 10:49:20 GMT -9
About stone handling I can share a bit of info with you, gentlemen. Most of the paved streets in Venice (including piazza San Marco) are made of trachite euganea (trachis from colli euganei, the sole hills in many km radius around Venice, Padua ecc). These stones were cut in blocks and sent to Venice through a wide web of canals that run across the plains to the Adriatic sea and Venetian lagoon. These stone blocks were shipped using barges called burci, using the natural flow of the water to the sea. To send back those barges, they were towed by oaxes on the side of the canals. This particular stone, since was of vulcanic origin, is very resistent to sea corrosion. Info from: museo della navigazione fluviale, Battaglia Terme (museum of fluvial navigation, in Battaglia Terme)
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Post by glennwilliams on Oct 2, 2020 5:47:47 GMT -9
About stone handling I can share a bit of info with you, gentlemen. Most of the paved streets in Venice (including piazza San Marco) are made of trachite euganea (trachis from colli euganei, the sole hills in many km radius around Venice, Padua ecc). These stones were cut in blocks and sent to Venice through a wide web of canals that run across the plains to the Adriatic sea and Venetian lagoon. These stone blocks were shipped using barges called burci, using the natural flow of the water to the sea. To send back those barges, they were towed by oaxes on the side of the canals. This particular stone, since was of vulcanic origin, is very resistent to sea corrosion. Info from: museo della navigazione fluviale, Battaglia Terme (museum of fluvial navigation, in Battaglia Terme) Thanks for that. And as we saw, very slippery of a February morning. I will never forget the image of elegant Venetian women in their high heels and fur coats slippping and sliding across the ice in the Piazzo San Marco with a cigarette in one hand and cell phone in the other. It seemed to be a uniform for them.
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 2, 2020 5:58:14 GMT -9
Doesn't matter the texture of the pavement, if there is ice on top of it.
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Post by monstersbtm on Oct 2, 2020 22:33:25 GMT -9
About stone handling I can share a bit of info with you, gentlemen. Most of the paved streets in Venice (including piazza San Marco) are made of trachite euganea (trachis from colli euganei, the sole hills in many km radius around Venice, Padua ecc). These stones were cut in blocks and sent to Venice through a wide web of canals that run across the plains to the Adriatic sea and Venetian lagoon. These stone blocks were shipped using barges called burci, using the natural flow of the water to the sea. To send back those barges, they were towed by oaxes on the side of the canals. This particular stone, since was of vulcanic origin, is very resistent to sea corrosion. Info from: museo della navigazione fluviale, Battaglia Terme (museum of fluvial navigation, in Battaglia Terme) Thanks for that. And as we saw, very slippery of a February morning. I will never forget the image of elegant Venetian women in their high heels and fur coats slippping and sliding across the ice in the Piazzo San Marco with a cigarette in one hand and cell phone in the other. It seemed to be a uniform for them. I think that on a February morning in Venice the only way to not slip on the pavement is using tracks!
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Post by monstersbtm on Oct 4, 2020 23:31:05 GMT -9
Additional request for you, dear glenn: do you think it's possible to design an altana? They were pretty common alongside Venice since xvi century.
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Post by glennwilliams on Oct 5, 2020 5:53:13 GMT -9
Additional request for you, dear glenn: do you think it's possible to design an altana? They were pretty common alongside Venice since xvi century. Sure. The set after the merchant houses is bridges and canals and currently includes a gallery between homes, so a loggia type structure would fit perfectly. I'll have to simplify as the last time I did such a structure (on the California mission) it was a night mare to design and to build.
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 5, 2020 6:15:10 GMT -9
'Altane' give better reference sources than 'Altana'. glennwilliams, will your series have a fairly universal roof pitch? Or set of pitches?
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Post by glennwilliams on Oct 6, 2020 5:36:27 GMT -9
'Altane' give better reference sources than 'Altana'. glennwilliams, will your series have a fairly universal roof pitch? Or set of pitches? Pretty much a gentle slope so minis will stand upright, as I'm a big fan of fantasy novels with roof hopping rogues. But not standardized as such, just similar. The merchant home set only has a pitched roof, so flat one (mostly because page count creeped upward...a lot).
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 28, 2020 6:45:41 GMT -9
OK, here's the bridge. glennwilliams, I am a bit fuzzy on how the hangers are to be built and work. Wouldn't they interfere with adding the roofs on the buildings? I apologize, but I have been working many, many hours these days, going in different directions simultaneously, so I am probably just a bit thick.
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 30, 2020 15:15:59 GMT -9
For my use, I needed this positioned lower on the buildings, so I took a lesson from the old Punch-Out books. I decided hooks that fit into slots would work better for my purpose Now that I know the concept works (the slots in the building are hardly noticeable when the bridge is removed), I am going to do a repaint with a clean stucco on one side and a rough brick and stucco on the other, using my pavers texture to have a 'slate' roof
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Post by glennwilliams on Oct 31, 2020 6:08:45 GMT -9
For my use, I needed this positioned lower on the buildings, so I took a lesson from the old Punch-Out books. I decided hooks that fit into slots would work better for my purpose Now that I know the concept works (the slots in the building are hardly noticeable when the bridge is removed), I am going to do a repaint with a clean stucco on one side and a rough brick and stucco on the other, using my pavers texture to have a 'slate' roof What a great idea. Now look the other way and ignore my whistling as I steal it!
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 31, 2020 7:02:54 GMT -9
Steal away, sir. BTW, the hooks are not necessary. When I do the other mod, I am just going to have tabs that are perpendicular to the edge, not hooked
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 2, 2020 4:19:02 GMT -9
If I can get my early voting done today, I may have time to work on my mod tonight. I think it would be helpful to have a template to mark the slots in the building. If you do the slits with the template, it will fit better and not mar the building as much by drawing on it to mark the slits. Not all buildings will have the same inset, so I think I will have a number of light blue lines marking the building edge. Just pick a line that best fits your building's dimensions. I suppose that I could make the template much longer than needed and one can fold on the line that works for a given building, and fold on a different line for a different building
EDIT --
Over lunch, I manually cut off the hook, leaving the tab. As it is currently, it requires more care to place than most would want. Making the tabs longer would take care of the fiddliness. I attempted to create another connection point on the building, only my 'eyeballing' was off. Just goes to show that the template idea would be very helpful
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 3, 2020 16:40:40 GMT -9
So, I finished up my hookless High Bridge by Glenn Williams But Lower mod, with the template for cutting the slits in the buildings. To work best, you will want to use the template to cut out the slits in the buildings BEFORE you build them. You have to be very careful and have a VERY sharp knife to use it on a built building.
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