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Post by bigpetr on Mar 10, 2021 14:11:10 GMT -9
Hello friends, I am trying to design my first 28mm paperminis and I want to ask experienced members if this is a way to go.
This is just officepaper concept test. I like them a lot, but will they be durable enought? I am planing to make them from thicker paper and soak them with Super glue to make them strudier.
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 10, 2021 14:18:25 GMT -9
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 10, 2021 14:49:54 GMT -9
Thank you Vermin King,I will use PostImage. Also thanks for the tips where to look at.
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 10, 2021 14:59:21 GMT -9
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Post by factoria tabletop on Mar 11, 2021 3:45:27 GMT -9
those minis looks amazing, very well done!
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 11, 2021 7:40:13 GMT -9
I did do quite a bit of experimentation along similar lines quite a few years ago. I can't speak much to the durability question because I was generally trying out new prototypes every few weeks so there wasn't much chance for the "old" ones to wear out. I did do it for player characters for a few campaigns and durability was not a problem...
I just checked my old box of prototypes. The sword blade and weapon shafts are bent, delaminated and broken. Superglue (or something) might solve the problem.
Good luck and keep us posted!
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 12, 2021 8:54:04 GMT -9
Thank you for responces and advices, much appreciated. It is always better to stand on the shoulders of a giants and do not reinvent the wheel. Little detour from my 2,5d effort. I did theese as a test and showcase with intention to gather pictures of painted models from modelers and use it to create more 2D and 2,5D paper figures. It would speed the creation of the figures greatly. Can I post this figures legaly to be used by others for free? Original figures are from Victrix company, I did not see anybody doing this, so I am not sure if this use is OK.
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 12, 2021 9:37:20 GMT -9
You have ventured into The Grey. I am sure the figures are copyright bearing, but you are showcasing the paint job as much as the figures. The paint job is the intellectual property of the one who painted it, but in general painters (unless they are selling painted figures) do not care about that right. They want their work to be seen.
I would suggest making some changes to the images, so that they are your modifications. Different stance, different weapon, different coloration. Just to be on the safe (safe-ish) side.
On the page, credit the company that made the original figures, and the painters, if possible, and add ' Paper figures by 'bigpetr', modified from images available on the internet. Or something like that.
Of course, if you weren't sharing, you can do what you will for your own personal enjoyment.
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 12, 2021 9:53:01 GMT -9
Thank you Vermin King, if this is main issue to consider, than It should be OK.
Images I will use will be from modelers who bought their models and are sending me the photos of ther painted models for purpose of making paper minis. I will not use this offical manufacturer images. I made them for myself and for the modelers I was asking for photos to see what I am up to. I will include credits for sure.
I will do my own hand drawn paper minis, it is my main goal.
Using existing figures for paper minis came to me as a request from some newcomer wargame players because it would alow me to tremendously speed up creating the figures for them. If legal problem shows we will let this paper minis for ourself.
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 12, 2021 10:17:22 GMT -9
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Post by wyvern on Mar 12, 2021 10:44:25 GMT -9
I would suggest also adding a credit for the decals used on the shields as well. Those will be copyright by someone other than the figure manufacturer or the painter. They are very clear and will be recognisable to those familiar with such things, I'm sure.
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 13, 2021 0:15:19 GMT -9
I wrote to the figure manufacturer to get their opinion.
I will get oakumarts vikings for sure. I saw them at drivethrurpg but image was so small I did not know what is realy inside. I googled it and found bigger images and I like them. Although I am fan of bit more realistic figures art style is great.
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 15, 2021 8:19:34 GMT -9
Manufacturer of the original figures (Victrix) has no problem with it as long as they are properly credited. They see it as a kind of advertisement for their figures.
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 15, 2021 9:06:05 GMT -9
Very good. Do you have some more in the works?
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 18, 2021 0:31:39 GMT -9
I am waiting for figure pictures to work with. I will have some in a month or so probably. I have found few usable on the net so I will try them soon.
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 18, 2021 12:12:35 GMT -9
More test builds. First is my initial fast test figure, witch I already posted here, included to see the genesis. Second is my latest try. It is layered 2,5d figure. Third is flat version of it. Fourth figure to see how figure made from photo will look and feel: My observations: - photographic figure is not bad, look realy good on this photos, but I do not like its "feel" in person. - 2,5d figure is realy nice, I am wery pleased with it. It maintains some of its form from the side, witch is great. I was trying to achieve that, so figure looks dimensional from all angles and not disapear completly from the side view. But I think it is not too usable for play, because it is too delicate. It needs gentle handling not to damage it. I can imagine to play with them myself, because I build it and know where to hold it but if I want to let play somebody else with it - it probably would not survive the game undamaged. Next try I will try to hold myself back a little and do not do it as much dimensional and just use layers to introduce hints of third dimension but stay compact so nothing sticks from it too much. That way it could withstand handling in games with no problem and still do not disapear completly from the side view. Please let me know what do you think.
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Post by wyvern on Mar 18, 2021 12:44:59 GMT -9
Another snag with 2.5D figures, as with modified ones too (with a different shield, or where separate weapons are available, for example - like in some of the PERMES mini sets), is they take more work = time to prepare. While that's fine for one or two special character minis, it isn't so good if you're trying to make a skirmish band or a small army, when 2D minis work better. Indeed, if the minis are being based on unit stands, with two or more minis per base, you don't really need them to be more than 2D, because you can just fit them to the base at slightly different angles to one another to lose that "invisible" side-on effect. Even if they're individually based, they'll rarely all end up with one view of all side-on on the tabletop anyway - it really takes more effort to do that than have each one be at a slight angle to the next by chance when you're setting up wargame units, for instance.
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 18, 2021 13:29:13 GMT -9
So it seems 2,5D is a waste of time and effort
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 18, 2021 14:00:13 GMT -9
It all depends on the purpose of the figures. They are great in RPG's as characters or special NPC's. If done simply enough, where you can build them quickly, they work in skirmish/war games. Depending on your game, you have to determine how much effort should be used on a figure. Even in skirmish games, there are individual leaders that could use a 2.5d effect because the figure is special.
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 19, 2021 6:08:21 GMT -9
I second all Vermin King's points and add that every hobbyist has there own idea of what is "good enough" (maybe 2d isn't) and what is "too much work" (maybe building 2.5d isn't.) This has something to do with the number of figurest one is trying to create and something to do with the way each gamer wants their table to look. Nothing anyone creates will ever be used by every gamer, but some people will appreciate it. Back when I released my 2.5d Troll (2010!) I thought 2.5 was something EVERYONE would love. Not everyone did but I inspired eddnic (http://minipapermodels.blogspot.com/) to run with the idea, and people (including myself) like his stuff, so it was not a waste of time (IMO.) In the absence of tens of thousands of dollars for market research there is no way to know how many people want your style of 2.5d figures. If you are pleased with the quality of your results for the amount of time you put into it there is a good chance that some others will also feel the same way. If you are building them for yourself it is only a little bit more work to share them, if you want to try an sell them, IMO the only way to find out is to finish a set, do a little (or a lot!) of promo and see what happens.
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Post by bigpetr on Mar 21, 2021 12:39:21 GMT -9
Thank you for your inputs and experiences. It shows me other views I did not consider before. As cowboyleland ten years back I also thougth 2,5D is evolution . I have no ambition to sell figures. I am doing them primrily for myself and my skirmish wargaming. I would like to have them all the same - all 2D or all 2,5D, I do not like to mix styles together. I decided to make a few more figures in 2,5D to test their durability during play when used by other players than me. If they will be durable enougth I will start to gradualy replace my 2D figures by it. And if they will be finished, why not to release them to public so others can use them if they want
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Post by wyvern on Mar 22, 2021 11:40:21 GMT -9
Worth saying perhaps that the splendid minis produced by Eddnic are rather closer to true 3D than 2.5D.
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