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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Aug 26, 2010 14:33:07 GMT -9
These blocks were a bit of an experiment a while back, which I may have to return to. I'm was bit paranoid about them because I haven't slapped copyright labels all over the art, but they are in serious need of a redesign - especially with regards to scale and nets. Also when I first made this I was using a free PDF converter which only let me create one page at a time hence the PDFs in the 6MB zip file. I'm not sure that most of the people on DA quite knew what they were looking at ... (after all an "RPG" is something Japanese with links to Cosplay, right?) fav.me/d143jj4^Link to my Deviant Art page. Quote my rambling explanation on DA: The basic pack includes:
Flagstone floor (grid / battle mat) Single Door (5’x5’ ) Double Door (5’x10’ ) L-shaped corner piece (10’x10’, 5’ thick ) 10’ long wall (10’x5’ ) 15’ long wall (15’x5’ ) 10’ square wall block (10’x10’ )
The tops of the walls are dark grey to cleanly divide the room areas, as viewed from above. The black and white originals had core filler rock between the walls, but this seemed “too busy”. The dark grey also helps the 3D dungeon resemble the map in the DM’s notes.
The pieces are designed to be modular and reusable, but players can choose to glue pieces down to make permanent room shapes, or even a whole dungeon level.
The wall pieces are reversible. When turned upside down, the flagstone pattern means that they can represent walkways or an elevated level! Very useful for those bridges over chasms.
The L-shaped pieces are especially useful a corners for delineating edges of very large rooms. (This idea was borrowed from TSR’s Indiana Jones RPG)
A visual explanation of doors can be found here: (EDIT: see below * ) The doors are representational. They cover a five foot deep area, but the assumption is that the door itself is inset into an alcove of roughly 2 ½ feet on both sides.
Stairs to different dungeon levels can be represented with 2D floorplan pieces (not included in this pack).
*Assemblage*
No clues! (maybe instructions will follow). I found that double sided sticky tape was my best friend. The tabs are really just a guide. The whole pack is filled with imperfections, which are part of a learning process for me.
Printing onto card is preferable but not essential.
Tip: When constructing the wall pieces, insert a coin (leave it loose because of the reversible nature of many of the pieces), this will steady the walls and doors and minimise the destruction of a whole dungeon by a player sneezing. Of course blue-tack can also be employed. * Visual Explanation of Doors: SUPER GIF ANIMATION! ;D These were lots of fun and very easy to use (and make) - Did I mention that I have thumbs the size of New Zealand? I started to make pillars and crates, but for me its the basic-ness of the large wall blocks which appeal the most. I may have to revisit this concept sometime. I reckon that they could become the Duplo (large Lego) of the cardboard dungeon scenery world. No, really ... BIG ... thumbs.
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Post by Floyd on Aug 27, 2010 5:29:50 GMT -9
Cool!!!
You should pick this idea back up and rework it a bit. I'd love to see more. I like the idea of using the tops of the blocks for raised areas of the dungeon, or a walkway across the abyss...etc. My only niggle I have is the doors... I think I'd like them to be more door shaped, smaller rectangles... but it's more from an aesthetic standpoint. Maybe some simple archways that sit atop the corners of the blocks that would create doorway?
Good stuff. I've seen a seen a couple of different approaches to this... but I like your loose, hand drawn-retro stylized look better than most.
~F
ps. Keeping these as simple dungeon scenes/encounters (like your Evil Summonings release) would be a way for you not to be overwhelmed by the # of pieces needed to be created(or the tedium). And allow you to focus on specifics, and after a couple of releases, you'd have a nice variety of parts for big/dynamic dungeon layouts.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Aug 27, 2010 6:02:53 GMT -9
I agree with Floyd, fer sure The key here is not getting burnt out... (for purely selfish motives... I want more Inked Adventure stuff!!!) I still think exploring a 2.5D approach to your stuff would be a cool way to expand your line as well. Along the lines of what Dagobahdave was trying with his sci-fi stuff before his dang HDD crashed... I would love to see you try a slotted system along these lines... onemonk.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=dagobahdave&action=display&thread=2152the potential here is astounding! Your floor tiles along with the unlimited building options of 2.5D walls could amount to something quite special. AND, the great thing about your style is that a body could choose if they wanted 2D or 2.5D without changing floor tiles or systems. Plus, it would take up a lot less space in my already crowded Man Cave onemonkeybeau
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Post by squirmydad on Aug 27, 2010 7:59:58 GMT -9
Walls turn a sit down game into a stand up game, if that's the type of game you want to design for, then it works, but most dungeon crawl games I have played are sit down games.
Much better to have tiles with stand up props, like doors, door frames, furniture, fireplaces, stalactites and stuff like that.
I know lots of people like the idea of walls for dungeons and corridors in general, but they really change the way you play the game. JIM
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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Aug 27, 2010 14:26:03 GMT -9
Maybe some simple archways that sit atop the corners of the blocks that would create doorway? ... ps. Keeping these as simple dungeon scenes/encounters (like your Evil Summonings release) would be a way for you not to be overwhelmed by the # of pieces needed to be created(or the tedium). And allow you to focus on specifics, and after a couple of releases, you'd have a nice variety of parts for big/dynamic dungeon layouts. Nice ideas. I made these blocks long before my current doors (which OneMonkey Beau calls 2.5D - is this a standard term?). I think perhaps a combination is required. The blocky doors are just too surreal. If I was to develop it, it would be a simple set for the young and people like myself who are not very talented when it comes to gluing tabs, and become baffled detailed card engineering. Lazy, fast dungeons.
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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Aug 27, 2010 14:33:46 GMT -9
I noticed that. Most intriguing. I didn't want to hijack his thread or appear to be borrowing too many ideas for personal profit. Total compatibility across the board, naturally. ;D Re. 2.5 - it's an official term, right? - I experimented a while ago with some thin walls and slotting systems but found that my structures lacked strength and were difficult to secure. Sneeze damage was more of a hazard also. I think experienced modellers know which materials really work, but at the moment I like the idea that my art can be used anyone with intermediate skill with paper, card, photo paper etc. I will perhaps explore thinner stand up walls at some point soon.
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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Aug 27, 2010 14:51:24 GMT -9
Walls turn a sit down game into a stand up game, if that's the type of game you want to design for, then it works, but most dungeon crawl games I have played are sit down games. Interesting observation. I think it also depends upon the height of the walls - which divides the 3D scenery fans, plus practicality verses scale. Nearly all doors are too short! Perhaps there's an economy of importance here - points of interest/focus. Only significant scenery and props make it onto the table. Looking at old all-in-one-games (HQ/AHQ/WHQ) and various introductory board games (inc. D&D spin offs) we get 3D doors and chests and sometimes obstructions like pillars. Walls are just impassable lines. My intellect tells me that walls hinder play, but the eye-candy side sometimes wins through. I think this is why I got a bit obsessed with top-down 3D-effect 2D walls. (Let's all just break into the Dwarven Forge factory!) Buildings scenery in tabletop wargames makes a lot more sense, because often it's about cover and line of sight. I've rarely played in a dungeon where fights are conducted across different levels. Incidentally, my maps take on a Doom quality - hard to explain, no overlaps - no "underneath", erm (brain just melted .. again) Now, I wish I had a huge box of grey Lego ... just to line the dungeon corridors...
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Post by Floyd on Aug 29, 2010 12:07:02 GMT -9
Incidentally, my maps take on a Doom quality - hard to explain, no overlaps - no "underneath", erm (brain just melted .. again) Now, I wish I had a huge box of grey Lego ... just to line the dungeon corridors... Ha! nice... true... reminds me also of the Build Engine map designs(Duke Nuk'em/Shadow Warrior) these games are/were incidentally where the term (at least to my knowledge) 2.5 came from. Or psuedo 3d. And it's carried over to the table-top. Flat 2d structures combined to give the effect of 3d. Jim's Stalkers are also a prime example of 2.5d. ~F
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Post by kane on Sept 15, 2010 8:43:04 GMT -9
Did not want to start a separate thread since it might lead people astray, but wanted to ask, any chance of you making a 2D outdoor pack? Say, grass, trees, rocks, etc in 1x1, 2x2, 3x3, 1x2, 1x3 etc configurations? To my knowledge, no one else has done anything like that. As much as I like 3D terrain for wargaming, for RPing, I prefer 2D.
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Post by tonsha on Sept 18, 2010 0:44:02 GMT -9
These are very interesting! They remind me of Matakishi's Dungeon blocks - which were more for creating multi level play areas. See here: www.matakishi.com/dungeon.htmIn my mind I was linking that idea with some of the Moria scenarios I'd seen in GWs LOTR game book (Hopefully you know what I mean - the ones with wlakways made from Insulation foam and held up by pillars of 'rock'). I even sketched some some designs for fold-flat paper versions. Never got around to doing anything with them though. Story of my (gaming) life. Oh well. know where Jim's coming from too - trying to fit your hand in between paper walls without disturbing anything takes a lot of care. You can't do it with kids. But it is purely a matter of personal preference. Still - there's plenty of scope here. Keep going with it. DaveA
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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Sept 19, 2010 7:14:07 GMT -9
Ha! nice... true... reminds me also of the Build Engine map designs(Duke Nuk'em/Shadow Warrior) these games are/were incidentally where the term (at least to my knowledge) 2.5 came from. Or psuedo 3d. And it's carried over to the table-top. Flat 2d structures combined to give the effect of 3d. Jim's Stalkers are also a prime example of 2.5d. I think I'm going to start having to say "2.5D", much easier than "top-down 3D-effect walls" and other such clumsy phrases I've been trying to cobble together. ;D
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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Sept 19, 2010 7:24:38 GMT -9
These are very interesting! They remind me of Matakishi's Dungeon blocks - which were more for creating multi level play areas. See here: www.matakishi.com/dungeon.htmExcellent link, thank you. - Originally that was the sort of simplicity I was going for, without the need for balsa wood, saws and paint, that is. I'm not sure I could match his steps though. thems a bugger to do in cardboard - maybe more like ramps which seems to be fashion in 3D card. They sound quite cool - maybe you should post 'em? (I'll steal your ideas and make a forrrrrtune! Mwhahaha.) All bridges lead to Moria! Crumbling chasm spanning bridges, one-to-one fighting, slam damage sending Orcs plummeting, players wincing as the DM grins over a falling-damage table, will the elven rope hold ...? You shall not pass! Fly, you fools, fly! (... and relax ...)
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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Sept 25, 2010 16:29:19 GMT -9
I rediscovered this image tonight: It's a cave network using 3D cardboard blocks using only three different pieces. The idea behind these is that the relatively chaotic lines of cave corridors can be represented with reusable blocks. Generally the blocks are designed to encroach on a half(third) square or fall back just enough to allow normal movement (if I remember, right...). The principle works just as well when creating large chambers. Again, the gaming practicality is as yet untested.
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 25, 2010 19:16:56 GMT -9
Three cavern blocks are a very elegant solution to the problem! Any way they could fold flat for storage . . . and pop-up!?!
I have the same reservations Jim has about sight lines.Something I've thought about is walls 3' or 4' (scale) high. It would mean you could indicate windows and arrow slots and clearly see doors but the sigh lines would still be OK. So, it doesn't turn into a stand-up game but if there are two rooms right beside each other players don't wander through by mistake.
I imagine it would look OK applied to caverns as well.
For me full 3d terrain is really only useful for balconies, ledges etc., then stackable units would be a must.
BTW I love the crypt stuff you've been posting in that other thread.
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Post by BilliamBabble Inked Adventures on Sept 27, 2010 13:38:40 GMT -9
Thanks, Cowboyland. Most of the nets to date were very simple nets, no plans for pop up scenery - however, I may give this a think, because I seem to have boxes filled with prototype dungeon boxes - I'm storing air! Nice idea. It would be good if I could keep the designs as simple as possible. I'm thinking that the dungeon blocks are definitely for younger modellers (and their dads!). *grins* Now I'm thinking of flat tables of scenery and you pull a lever like in a pop-up book and everything magically raises! ;D I'm sure there's a few things out there that already do this. It's always worth remembering that players often move between houses during a campaign. Thin card dungeon blocks do not travel well. (I can see I'm going to have to check out the "PRINTING, BUILDING, FINISHING and STORAGE" forum for ideas.) Thanks again.
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 27, 2010 15:13:40 GMT -9
Almost all boxes flatten if you can get the "top" and "bottom" to hinge away. I assumed the Dungeon Blocks did that. Then you wouldn't need to store air. Your cavern blocks would be trickier because of the more complicated form, that is why I was wondering about "pop-up" construction, but I know nothing about it so I can't be of any real help
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Post by curufea on Oct 5, 2010 0:09:52 GMT -9
You could just hinge the oddly shaped interior cavern wall and not have ends (or have the ends of the section with tabs and slots).
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