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Post by tonsha on Sept 18, 2010 11:23:24 GMT -9
OK - I've gone mad. Following last night's Castle Ravenloft game, I've decided that my boys would love it. So I'm going to have a go at putting something together. I've already got the tiles (my basic 4x4 dungeon tiles - which I have never actually printed out!) I need rules (going to try Te Wapen! based rules), and cards. Here's a screenshot of a first stab at the cards: I can't imagine the legal implications on distributing this are likely to be good for my health. So for the time being this is purely for personal use. DaveA P.S/ I asked my kids what we should call it, and they came up with ' Fearsome Adventures'. So there you go!!
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Post by nikloveland on Sept 18, 2010 12:24:17 GMT -9
Most cool projects get started by someone going mad. Hey, that is lookin' cool already! I've heard a bunch hype about the new Castle Ravenloft game but yet to see it (aside from pics on BBG). I haven't heard much about Te Wapen! either. You'll need some cool art to go in those profile boxes.
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Post by Sirrob01 on Sept 18, 2010 12:40:38 GMT -9
Tonsha depending on how many cards you need to do it might be worth modding a template for mtgse (http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/) and using that to create and store your cards. Once the templates done it becomes simple matter of data entry. If you work out the legality thing let me know I recreated the old Dungeon (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1339/dungeon) game completely as I used to play it as kid as my parents had bought it in the late 70's. I haven't shared anything as I think WOTC owns the rights as it was originally published by TSR. I digress anyways I wish I'd done those cards in the set editor above there were about 200 individual cards I had to replicate... The above are looking good
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Post by Parduz on Sept 18, 2010 13:13:39 GMT -9
I need rules (going to try Te Wapen! based rules), and cards. Uh... never heard of it, and after reading it i can't say i'd like it. Anyway, i put here some reasoning about "scripting cards". They're untested, as i'm writing (more or less) while thinking them. Suppose that: - each monster have a stat called "Leadrship" (which can be the "sum" of the intelligence of the monster and his willing to co-operate with other monster.) - there's a rule that tells that a monster always move towards the heroes if not able to attack them, if it is not fleeing (more on this later) - each monster is "classified" as "range attacker" or "melee attacker". - finally, suppose to have a mechanic that tells you how much, and what kid of monster you MAY (not sure, just possible) find in a room. Said this, imagine to be in a large room and to have an orc champion, 3 goblins archer and a vampire: you must draw one card for each type of monster (so, 3 card total). That's how i imagine the cards ------------------------------------------- Orc Champion Melee - Leader 4 Courage: Will fight to death Alone: - Attack the nearest enemy. With allies: - Attack the nearest enemy - Melee allies: attack the same enemy - Ranged allies: throw at the healer, or caster, or less armored enemy------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------- Goblin Archer Ranged - Leader 2 Courage: Will flee if life <25% Alone: - Throw at the nearest enemy. With allies: - Throw at the nearest enemy - Melee allies: defend the Goblin Archer - Ranged allies: throw at the same target -------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------- Vampire Melee - Leader 0 (this means that he act alone) Courage: Will fight to death
- Attack the enemy with less CON / remaining hit points
- Special: any ally will fight to death until the Vampire is in the same room------------------------------------------- Now, what this all means? The orc will command the goblins, as he have more leadership. - So the orc will attack the nearest hero (and the he will keep to pursue it even if it move away) until one of the two die - The goblin have an order from the orc, so they fires at the healer, or the caster if the healer is not in the room, etc. Until there's a vampire, the goblins will not flee it taking damage. - The vampire do as stated in the card. You see? The Orc Champions will always have the same stats, but playing with the various card sections you may have different behaviour even from the same monster. The combos with the allies results in even more differences. Fleeing: monster(s) fleeing will try to exit from the room, going to hide in unexplored tiles (or whatever will fit the game) to be seen again when the next encounter will reveal new monsters. Hope that this all makes sense
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Post by tonsha on Sept 19, 2010 11:42:39 GMT -9
Hey Guys! Thanks for the continued feedback! Responses: nikloveland: Well, the cool artwork was going to be OneMonk mini art (as per the flat counters I've been working on). I hope that's still OK. I'm sure it is for personal use anyways. Sirrob01: Good idea about the card templates. I'm creating them using XaraLX (First project with the Linux version!), which allows me to fully copy and paste the card style and - if I name the colours - change the colour combinations within seconds (so I could have 1XP, 2XP, 3XP, etc. all different colours if I wanted). Parduz: WHOA! Some very cool ideas here. I am sort of getting what you mean and I got to thinking that FA could just be a basic system, and then people could write scenarios and campaigns which introduce new concepts and advanced rules. Initally I'll probably look at something very simple - like the samples you've already seen. But your thoughts caused me to do something like this: So rather than bringing on a single monster which behaves differently depending on the situation, I've got a single card that brings on multiple monsters that exhibit a specific behaviour (in this case the kobolds dart in and attack then run away. If a Hero advances on them, they scurry away). It's not exactly what you were after, but it provides multiple attacker type behaviour. As far as Te Wapen goes, I was just looking for a simple combat mechanic. A lot of games - D&D, SBH - use opposed dice rolls with a combat factor added. You can simplify that by just doing attack roll plus combat factor vs a 'To Hit' number. Te Wapen simplifies it even more - there's no adding. Roll a number of dice and compare against the 'To hit' number. Any dice that equal or beat the 'To Hit' inflict a wound. So the Wraiths in FA aren't going to be as nasty as those in Ravenloft - if they miss they will still inflict 1 wound, but if they hit they will inflict 1-3 Wounds. Ravenloft Wraiths always inflict 3 damage when they hit. Obviously Heroes will start out with LOTS of Wounds/Life/HPs (whatever I eventually decide to call them) and we'll have to jig about with the monsters to make the attack dice *just* right. It makes levelling up a bit harder (6+ To hit is as far as you can go unless you want to use d8, d12, d20), but the Ravenloft game only goes to Level 2 anyway. So levelling up can just mean increasing the number of Wounds and the starting spells & equipment. Hey - I'm making this up as I go along. It'll need some playtesting to find the Sweet point! (I kinda like that - Sweet FA!! LOL! ;D) DaveA
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Post by Parduz on Sept 19, 2010 13:46:56 GMT -9
Yeah, it works. As your "scripting" is based on heroes "status", just take care of "infinite loops".... what if, in the case of your kobold, the hero keeps going adjacent to it every turn? (depending on the game mechanics it may be possible or not, i'm just reasoning on it as i'm used to do... i'm a programmer ). About attack dice rolls, let me think aloud: in FA monsters do not roll to save/defense, so each monster have to have an "to hit" value that have to be passed (as you have already written). depending on how much "granularity" you want, you may use: a - variable number of d6, as Te Wapen do b - variable number of special d6 ( D&D: Fantasy adventure, Mutant Chronicles Siege of the Citadel and Fury of the Clansmen, GW Space Crusade use color coded d6, some dice hit more than others) c - variable numbers of variable dice ( Silent Death - imho, the most clever way ever invented to handle hit, damage and criticals in a single roll) d - d20, fixed damage depending on weapons e - d20, then roll damage die. Choosing one of them is a matter of implementing levelling and treasures: a is, imho, the hardest: adding a single die to the roll changes things a lot at lower levels, then each added die is less important than the previous (going so much far, rolling 8 or 9 d6 changes just a little). b and c allows much more flexibility, with the only cons that more dice are needed. b asks for colored d6 (so let the blue hits on 5-6, the yellows hits on 4-6, the reds hits on 3-6). Changing the number and mixing the colors let you have a wider range, from low to high levels. c is a very special system (even if it was developed for sci-fi starfighters battles): each weapon use a type of die (as example, a Axe uses 2d8, medium damage) and the hero skill add another die (as example, a low level warrior may have a d6). So, you roll 2d8+1d6. Sum all dice: more than the To hit value? hit. How much damage? as the axe says, Medium. What it means? suppose you dice result is 2-5-7. The medium value is 5, so 5 damage. What about criticals? if your roll was 3-5-5, or 5-5-7, the total damage is 10 (the two "5" as both of them are "medium"). It is more hard to explain it than to use it, trust me. More, it is really FAST. A single roll, and you handle all. Combining the dice type, the damage level (low, medium, max) and the die skill let you obtain a very flexible and fast system. d and e are very known methods, the d20 is a common thing, and it let also flexibility. If i had to choose, i'll go for c or d, with b as second choice. Tonsha: i'd like that FA will be public. I see potential in it, and i'd like to test and play a co-op dungeon crawl if it is fast, easy, and unpredictable. Pls think to make it public
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Post by tonsha on Sept 19, 2010 16:40:09 GMT -9
Yeah, it works. As your "scripting" is based on heroes "status", just take care of "infinite loops".... what if, in the case of your kobold, the hero keeps going adjacent to it every turn? (depending on the game mechanics it may be possible or not, i'm just reasoning on it as i'm used to do... i'm a programmer ). Good point and one I had thought of (I've not been a programmer for years - but you do need to think about these things . In this case - yes, a single Kobold will run away forever. But that's sort of the point. A single Kobold *SHOULD* run away forever. Don't forget that while the Hero is chasing one Kobold, the other two are running in and trying to score hits. That's why there are 3 of them. Sorry mate - too complicated. I want 6 and 7 year olds to play this. But - as I said earlier - once the base system is in place, there is no reason anyone couldn't create their own 'advanced' version, or specific scenarios that use specific rules. If the TW system is only good at low levels, I think we may have something that fits what I'm looking for. Ravenloft only uses level 1 & 2 Heroes after all. And the Scenario book has well over 10 scenarios. However, I'm not ruling anything out here. I appreciate that TW is really a miniatures wargame that flattens out the individual 'race' features to create very basic troop types. It may not adapt well to this kind of game. It'll require some playtesting. I'd like this too, but it totally depends on the kind of flack I get off any commercial entities. WOTC would be the main concern - but maybe Sanity as well, since I'm wanting to use the OneMonk images for the cards and counters. Still - I'll make sure I send you the stuff personally so you can playtest. How's that? DaveA
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Post by Parduz on Sept 20, 2010 1:14:41 GMT -9
Don't forget that while the Hero is chasing one Kobold, the other two are running in and trying to score hits. That's why there are 3 of them. That's what happens when you're reasoning after midnight, and after an abundant dinner and some good red wine Sorry mate - too complicated. I want 6 and 7 year olds to play this. Me too b solution isn't really that hard. My son managed it at 7 years. You may even paint red the dice pips to show when they hits or not. If the TW system is only good at low levels, I think we may have something that fits what I'm looking for. Ravenloft only uses level 1 & 2 Heroes after all. And the Scenario book has well over 10 scenarios. I don't own Ravenloft, so i don't know how it rewards players, but i own D&D: the fantasy adventure board game. I don't like that game so much (but my son do) but it have a nice rewarding system. It only have three levels which, other than adding a couple of hit points, just allow you to use powerful weapons/spells. At the begin of the scenario, you have to pick the treasure cards of the scenario level, and so your heroes starts doing more damage as they start to find treasures. That's a way to have "micro-level advancements". The net effect is that the kids got rewarded while playing the scenario instead of just at the end of it, and this keeps them exited (and provides some decision: " should i use that weapon that do a lot of damage with more chances to miss, or the trusty mid-damage sword that hits almost always?"). TW dice system is too coarse to allow this. Anyway, i'm not pushing my thoughs: i'm just sharing what i've learn playing every game i own with my kids from 6 six years (they are 11 and 12 now, we started at 6-7). As you already know, it is fantastic when they get involved as you. Amusing both (old farts like us and that young, game-boy addicted, lightning bolts) is not a result that any game can achieve, even if the game is really good. I just tried, in the years, to understand why. I'd like this too, but it totally depends on the kind of flack I get off any commercial entities. WOTC would be the main concern - but maybe Sanity as well, since I'm wanting to use the OneMonk images for the cards and counters. I've not understood what are the parts tied to WotC. And about Jim images: was not lastly published as "creative commons"? I'm a total ignorant about this, but is this kind of license reversible? (Sanity men: i'm not going against you. I'm just asking to understand legal stuffs. Courtesy and kindness are another matter that no-one can write a disclaimer about it ) I'm exited about playtesting it!!!!
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Post by josedominguez on Sept 20, 2010 1:23:39 GMT -9
Why not 'if kobold is adjacent to a hero, it will attack and then retreat two squares?' Probably triggering a free hack or something similar, but representing the kobold having a go then legging it.
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Post by doublew on Sept 20, 2010 15:18:37 GMT -9
I've actually been thinking of doing something along the lines of what you're doing, except using the Savage Worlds system instead of d20 (particularly the free Showdown rules.) And I just found your tiles the other day and love them. I'm using the moss tiles as outdoor tiles and the stone tiles as interior tiles. Still, I got to admit I have found memories of HeroQuest and its miniature furniture, which really brought the dungeon to life, in my opinion. Using furniture from here to decorate my dungeons: www.enworld.org/CrookedStaffProductions/page11.html
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Post by tonsha on Sept 20, 2010 22:44:22 GMT -9
Morning All! Sorry for the delay in responding - yesterday was very busy. No progress on FA I'm afraid. I'll see what I can get up to today though. Parduz: Sounds like a great evening! I'm sure you enjoyed it. I own and play that game with my boys! Now I fully understand what you mean about the coloured dice! (That's what I get for responding at 2:30am in the morning 'cos I can't sleep at night!) OK - you certainly have a valid point here. Each die has either o's, 1's and a 2, 1's, 2's and a 3, or 2's and 3's IIRC. Add the total up, subtract the AC, and that's the damage. Yes, it's pretty simple. Maybe we should playtest both systems... OK - so first thing I need to do is provide the card template. Then add the text, but leave the combat values blank. Stick the cards in card protectors and you can write the combat values on the protector using whiteboard pens. That way we can tweak the stats during playtest sessions. Right - sounds like a good plan. I'll do that as next job and make them downloadable to everyone. Well, I created the 4x4 tiles in 2009 and suggested the random tile selection as per Ravenloft, so I have 'prior art' I guess you could say. But the 'automatic' monster behaviour on the cards is directly influenced by Ravenloft - even mimicking the wording. Sticking them BOTH TOGETHER could be construed as copying. And that's where it gets a little bit hairy. josedominguez: I could have written it that way certainly. This way they would have got an attack in every time. But I just wanted something that *felt* a bit different. If a Hero approaches a Kobold they leg it (Cowards!), and wait for a more appropriate opportunity to sneak in an attack. This wasn't a game mechanics decision, it was 'atmosphere' decision. doublew: I'm glad to see that someone is using my tiles! Make sure you put some photos in the Gallery! If you're interested in HeroQuest, did you know that there is a fan-produced, HeroQuest-based, game in development right now, called (unimaginatively) Dungeon Crawl. Found it yesterday. Here's the forum link: oldscratch.smackwell.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=genCheck out the photos of the game components!! I was impressed! The game is intended to be sold (from what I can see), but you can get on the Playtest list for $15.00 - far, far cheaper than Ravenloft. There is a 'demo' pdf available for download as well. The full game comes with something like 35 scenarios! And since it is being developed by die-hard HeroQuesters there is the chance that it will be able to handle things like increasing levels and campaigns. Made me wonder whether to continue with FA for a moment or two...and then I thought, "Nah! I don't want to be the DM all the time!". So I will continue. But it does make me want to focus on a basic, 1-hour, dungeon crawl boardgame. Rather than something that could compete with HQ, AHQ, WHQ and Descent. The D&D boardgame was simpler than those 4, but I want to go even simpler! Right! Enough babbling from me. I need to make a bit of progress! DaveA Edit: From reading the Dungeon Crawl demo, it suggests that the full version of the game allows you to play WITHOUT a DM. Interesting...
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Post by Parduz on Sept 20, 2010 23:25:04 GMT -9
Sounds like a great evening! I'm sure you enjoyed it. Sure, my granny keeps feeding my grandpa, my father, and my whole family as if we were just recovering from two months of starvation ;D (and if you look at the traditional cooking habits of my city, you'll see how serious we're about it ) Sorry for the OT I own and play that game with my boys! Now I fully understand what you mean about the coloured dice! OK - you certainly have a valid point here. Each die has either o's, 1's and a 2, 1's, 2's and a 3, or 2's and 3's IIRC. Add the total up, subtract the AC, and that's the damage. Yes, it's pretty simple. Maybe we should playtest both systems... Sorry for having not been clear enough Note that the AC there works both as "to hit" value and as damage reduction. I think that the two should be different stats (a rogue-like creature should be hard to hit but easy to be damaged, a stone golem should be easy to hit but almost unbreakable. That D&D boardgame does not allow these differences) As i've said (or as i have tried to) there's even a simpler system: The other games i mentioned have just "hitting faces" ( X= hit): white die: O O O O X X red die:.. O O O X X X black die: O O X X X XSum the hit symbols against the "To Hit" value. Equal or more means a hit, with fixed damage depending on weapons/type of attack.
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Post by tonsha on Oct 4, 2010 23:59:05 GMT -9
Morning All!
I've been quiet for a while and thought I'd better give a quick update.
I've completed all of the monster cards for an introductory scenario (Some of these will form a part of the single Event Deck. The rest are used when specific objectives are reached). I'll provide them with the Te Wapen! style combat values as well as BLANK combat values so we can playtest other combat systems.
I've put a selection of my BDS Tiles (Basic Dungeon Squares) together into a PDF. I need to develop the scenario specific tiles (3 in total).
I've now made a start on the Adventurer Cards which the players will use.
Still to do:
1. The 3 Objective Tiles (as mentioned above) 2. The Adventurer Cards (mentioned above) 3. Permanent & Immediate Event Cards. Trap Cards. (All going into the Event Deck) 4. Treasure Deck Cards 5. Rule Book
I'll try and post some photos of the printed materials when I get the chance.
I'm sorry the progress has slowed down. Real life does intrude in a busy family of 5. But I haven't stopped working! I'm doing something every week.
DaveA <-- Still Workin' !!
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Post by tonsha on Oct 6, 2010 12:11:32 GMT -9
Another quick update. Here are quick shots of the components: I've also put together a sheet of flat counters for all of the monsters and adventurers. DaveA
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Post by Parduz on Oct 6, 2010 12:17:28 GMT -9
Can i help in some manner? (Waiting impatient..... )
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Post by tonsha on Oct 8, 2010 9:28:26 GMT -9
Can i help in some manner? (Waiting impatient..... ) Don't worry, Parduz. You'll be the first on the playtest list! DaveA
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Post by Sirrob01 on Oct 8, 2010 19:13:40 GMT -9
Tonsha this is looking really good
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Post by nikloveland on Oct 9, 2010 4:56:05 GMT -9
I ditto Sir Rob, that is nice. I love when people make good lookin' prototypes.
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Post by labrat on Oct 9, 2010 6:36:26 GMT -9
Er... ummm... biting nails. I want to play this game. The floor tiles look nice.
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Post by tonsha on Oct 10, 2010 6:35:16 GMT -9
Er... ummm... biting nails. I want to play this game. The floor tiles look nice. Thanks for the comments. The floor tiles are already available at PaperMakeIT. They are the BDS (Basic Dungeon Squares) files. Be aware: they are very 'blue'. More so than you can see in the pictures. Every time I print them I think that, but I've had very positive comments from other forum members, so I've left them as they are. (Link: www.papermakeit.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=cat_view&gid=34&Itemid=70) I'd like to think you'll have this game available soon, but there's just a lot to do and only so many hours in the day. But I've had a big push the last few days and made serious progress on the Hero cards. Unfortunately, I've no idea how balanced they are likely to be. I'm doing this in reverse order really - I guess I should rough out the game first and THEN do the final version of the cards. But I'm enjoying it so much I'll just keep going. Here are the samples: As you can see - I'm part way thru the Cleric cards. I'm editing the Ranger card text as I go. Basically, each hero will have a Level 1 and Level 2 card. Level 2 provides slightly higher 'To Hit' values and more life. Players wiill get the opportunity to 'Level up' part way thru a game if they can get enough Experience points. (Apologies for the rotten puns BTW. That's just the way I am... ;D) DaveA
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Post by Parduz on Oct 10, 2010 14:13:26 GMT -9
.... i'd need to buy a drool-proof keyboard ....
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Post by Sirrob01 on Oct 19, 2010 17:06:42 GMT -9
Tonsha how much have you reworked this from the original game? I'm just thinking I replaced every component in the Dungeon game I recreated with my own stuff, I'd have to go through and change things like beholder to eye tyrant and the name of the game etc but that wouldn't be much work. I changed a few game mechanics around as well but at it's core its the same game. Just wondered if you had any idea on these kinds of issues.
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Post by tonsha on Oct 20, 2010 21:20:53 GMT -9
Tonsha how much have you reworked this from the original game? I'm just thinking I replaced every component in the Dungeon game I recreated with my own stuff, I'd have to go through and change things like beholder to eye tyrant and the name of the game etc but that wouldn't be much work. I changed a few game mechanics around as well but at it's core its the same game. Just wondered if you had any idea on these kinds of issues. I envision game play to be pretty much the same as the original. I've condensed the Monster Deck and Event Deck into a single Event Deck (not every encounter has to be a monster, eh?), and the combat mechanics are completely different (Te Wapen! rather than DnD - although that could changed based on playtesting). In the meantime, sorry about the lack of updates. My wife has been ill - so I've been the main Director for the boys - and we've been re-negotiating phones and phone contracts (which takes a surprising amount of time, I've discovered). But do not give up hope! I have been working and I'll provide a proper update at the weekend! DaveA
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Post by tonsha on Oct 23, 2010 10:04:50 GMT -9
Time for the Saturday Night Update!! ;D I've got 3 Scenario specific objective tiles complete! All 6 Trap Cards complete (Sample below): All 6 Permanent Event Cards complete (Sample below): Which leaves the immediate Event Cards, Trap Tokens, Treasure Deck and Rules to do. Sorry it such a slow process - we'll just have to see how we get on next week... DaveA P.S. I'm absolutely LOVING XaraLX - I'm a real convert now!
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Post by Sirrob01 on Oct 24, 2010 0:34:34 GMT -9
These all look very nice Tonsha, really liking the tile texture on the tiles.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Oct 24, 2010 5:28:33 GMT -9
I agree the tiles look great (as usual ) But I'd like to see the cards more grungy... even tattered a bit. Right now they look too pristine. onemonkybeau
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Post by emergencyoverride on Oct 24, 2010 18:58:34 GMT -9
Those cards really look sweet! The whole layout is pretty much amazing and it sounds like you are having a great time. Keep it up!
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Post by tonsha on Oct 25, 2010 3:35:27 GMT -9
Interesting! EMO likes the cards as they are but Beau doesn't. Hmmmmmm.... I think I'll leave them as they are for the moment. I need to finish all the cards/tokens/rules and get it available for playtesting. I'm taking your comments on board, Beau - and I'll try improving the look of the cards one we're in the playtest stage. DaveA
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Post by Parduz on Oct 25, 2010 4:00:12 GMT -9
My vote goes to grungy cards... but only if/when this does not stop game developing
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Oct 25, 2010 5:45:57 GMT -9
I think that's smart... get the rules/playtest finalized and then work on the aesthetic appeal.
I'm with you either way!
(but I still think grungy would cool ;D !)
onemonkeybeau
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