Western Minis

[revgunn]

After a long trial and error period, I consider these done. Maybe I'll revise them, but for now... here ya go

After some thought, I decided to remove my drawings. I have no desire to start problems. I learned a lot, and thanks for looking.

[Tommygun]

Very nicely done.

[Reivaj]

Wow! Very Good work Revgunn!. Thanks for share! ;D

[revgunn]

Thanks guys, y'all are always supportive. I realize I have a ways to go before my artistic abilities are as good as some of the folks on here. I want to do some other female figures as well, that are a bit more historical, but those two are player characters and I was told EXACTLY how they would be drawn...

[mruseless]

These are GREAT!!

[revgunn]

I understand where you're coming from, but I also completely disagree. As I stated before, those two female figs are player characters, and I drew them EXACTLY as the ladies that play them told me too. Both married. Both Mothers. Actually, one in question, being MY wife... dresses like that IRL. (the red haired one) At age 38. I count myself a lucky guy...

But hey, if its a problem for y'all, its OK. I can remove them and myself from this site. I have some other female figures that I've drawn, and I am now really glad I went with my decision not to post them. They'd REALLY offend you.

We all got stuff that pushes our buttons, like I refuse to tattoo swastikas on people. Or really horrific looking demons.

If y'all want them gone, just let me know.

[Parduz]

Revgunn, i don't think that removing the minis was the request (and i don't like to see them gone while i'm writing).

Maybe you could just touch-up the public version removing the nipples signs... i dunno. I'm the first that hates to change the words of the songs i wrote, so if you say "they're just like that" i'm fine as well. But removing them is a "lost" for us all.

[revgunn]

I agree, and I don't change the lyrics of songs I write either. I drew them like I was asked to. I'm proud of the way they look.
But, censorship is like that. The one decides for the many. I have no desire to start any kind of problem, so, I walk away. People have opinions, and even if I don't share them, I respect them.

I like scantily clad women. I don't apologize for being a man that likes them. I don't pretend to be anyone I'm not.

Honestly, I should know better. I read the intro to the thread about the Christmas Hoard, about "no nudity or anything sexual"... Gore, violence, and gruesome is okay, but nothing sexual.

Got it.

[Parduz]

Ok, i hear you.
I still think that you're over-reacting to a very calm opinion (if i'm not missing some meanings from Kiladecus post).

[Dryw the Harper]

Revgunn,
I agree with you about your pieces. Many of my Imperfect People female pieces have bare midriffs, and most are designed around how my players envisioned them. Still, I had never thought of them as "too sexual" or improper, nor has anyone at this site ever complained to me about them.

I, for one, will miss your postings and hope you will reconsider.

Dryw the Harper

[deathdragon]

I thought they were good didn,t see any problem with them.
My advice would be to repost the minis & if there really was a problem with them the board mods & administrators would have removed the links themselves.

[Dagger]

Whoa! Wait a minute.... don't remove the figures... that's akin to burning books I don't think anyone intended for you to remove the figures.

I'm not saying we need fewer scantily clad female characters... I very much LIKE scantily clad female characters. However, I will say that I would also very much like to see more non-scantily clad female characters. I think the ideal situation is an abundance of both types of figures... the only real problem is if there is too much of one and not enough of the other.

[afet]

I vote to repost them. I agree that is would be great to see more fully clothed female minis, but it's not as though these are naked.
Honestly, I find the puritanism tiresome.
Apparently rampant violence, sorcery and demonic creatures are fine, but not nipples under a shirt.
Sigh.

[Tommygun]

Nov 29, 2010 11:36:41 GMT -9 afet said:

I vote to repost them. I agree that is would be great to see more fully clothed female minis, but it's not as though these are naked.
Honestly, I find the puritanism tiresome.
Apparently rampant violence, sorcery and demonic creatures are fine, but not nipples under a shirt.
Sigh.

I have to agree with this.
You can show simulated decapitation on network television, but nudity sends people into a tizzy.
I don't understand this double standard.

[cowboyleland]

I've got to chime in here. I've always found that hoard "instruction" about "no nudity and anything sexual" problematic. We play with violence here! That is more problematic than eluding to the fact that women have nipples. That is the sort of secret that gets out! I remember when my oldest son was only six years old and saw a magazine advertisement that featured a lot of cleavage, he said: "Wow, her kids will never be hungry!" So you see, if one doesn't already find nipples titillating (unfortunate word, but it says what I mean) then you won't find pictures of nipples titillating. I agree that not every figure should be a total babe wearing next to nothing, but some can be. If a female player makes specific requests about how she wants her character to look, that has got to be accepted.
I was upset way back in the MMIP days when someones mermaid was removed because it was bare breasted. I mean, if mermaids really existed, they probably wouldn't make themselves sea-shell bra's.
And it doesn't look to me like Kiladecus asked to take them down, just observed that there was a tendency to under-dress females and "we" shouldn't default to pin-up style just because the rest of the world does. I'm with him on that point, but stand by my mermaid statements and my general freedom of expression bias.

Whew, I'm glad I got that out. Sorry for the rant
(but I'm not sorry for my views )

[okumarts]

I didn't see anything wrong with the minis to be honest (I had to go back and take another look and found they were missing, which is a shame as I need Western minis!).
If I recall correctly the only problem I had was that they were a bit anachronistic for the era, but they seemed fun and useful.
Revgunn, you should totally put them back up for LOTS of reasons. The most important because they were made of pure awesome.
I didn't read the comments as a major criticism, just something that people were interested in talking about. Debate is a great use of the billions of dollars that were invested to create the internet.

[mruseless]

I also vote for putting them back up.
I have no problem with nudity, nipples, etc.

[revgunn]

Wow.. where do I even start with this?

OK, first, had you merely criticized my art, hey, no problem. I get more criticism from paying clients. Just try misspelling the name you just tattooed in to a large biker-type's skin and see what kind of criticism you get...

Second, the biggest difference in myself and Mr. Labrat, whom I have a great deal of respect for BTW, is that he is selling a product. I'm not. Had Parduz taken an interest and given me a critique, I'd welcome it. He would critique it based on how it looks, and I know I can trust that.

Your problem with the minis as I understand it was that you didn't like the way two of them were drawn. OK. Since I didn't specifically draw them for you, no problem. I drew them for me, and for the players playing those two characters. I then chose to share them with the forum, so that folks could use them for whatever they wanted. If they like them, great. If not, OK.

You then went and started a whole nother thread about "NUDITY!!"
In my view, it looks like since you didn't like what I posted, you were looking for support for your position, and to keep others from posting their art that you might not like. Well, there are several sets of minis on the site that I personally find pointless, one mini in particular I think is a little offensive, and others I think are really cool. I have zero desire to keep the artists from posting them though. Its simply not my business. If Sirrob wants to draw teddy bears all day long ... cool. Have fun. They look really great, he's an awesome artist.

That's why I do this. For fun. For my spare time hobby. Big discussions like this tend to limit my fun. So, I removed my art in an attempt to avoid exactly this.

[cowboyleland]

None of my business, but nice post.

BTW I don't really get Andy Warhol either

[afet]

All right then, I´ll repost them. These minis are too nice to loose. I´ve made up a pdf version as well.

www.4shared.com/document/LBzTYnfw/Outlaws.html

[nikloveland]

Hey revgunn, those do look good. Afet, you may want to make sure the artist is ok with it (since he was the one who took them down).

[afet]

Dec 2, 2010 11:55:37 GMT -9 nikloveland said:

Hey revgunn, those do look good. Afet, you may want to make sure the artist is ok with it (since he was the one who took them down).

Revgunn said he took down the art to avoid a controversy. But the discussion has run its course, and the results are clearly in favor of reposting the images. Even the original critic, Kiladicus, has made clear that his intention was not for the images to be removed. So there is no reason to not repost them. That said, if Revgunn insists, I will regretfully take them down again.

[revgunn]

HA! cool. You beat me to it! I was gonna re-post those tonight. Thanks. Ummm... one question, how'd you get em to be small like that??

[Tommygun]

Dec 2, 2010 17:49:00 GMT -9 revgunn said:

HA! cool. You beat me to it! I was gonna re-post those tonight. Thanks. Ummm... one question, how'd you get em to be small like that??

Attachments automatically get resized, but they often have to be under a certain size to start with.
A simple photo editor will resize the image.
Many printers come with this software included.
It's good for the web display, but you can't print from the smaller image without losing detail.

[Dryw the Harper]

This is the set all the fuss is about? Really? This is the first time I actually got to see them and I don't get it. Is there another page of missing figures? I don't even see a scantily clad saloon girl or a half-naked Native American Indian. I'm very confused.

Dryw the Harper

[afet]

Dec 2, 2010 18:30:30 GMT -9 Tommygun said:

Dec 2, 2010 17:49:00 GMT -9 revgunn said:

HA! cool. You beat me to it! I was gonna re-post those tonight. Thanks. Ummm... one question, how'd you get em to be small like that??

Attachments automatically get resized, but they often have to be under a certain size to start with.
A simple photo editor will resize the image.
Many printers come with this software included.
It's good for the web display, but you can't print from the smaller image without losing detail.

Yup, I just resized it to a 75dpi image. The image is just to see what they are, whereas the pdf is the original size.

[revgunn]

Sweet. Thanks you lots Afet.

Dryw... I know right?

Uh, well, there ARE more coming, but the Apache, Comanche and Kiowa, with half naked woman are a lil ways off....

Saloon girls are in the next group. With the Bandidos.

[Dagger]

Dec 2, 2010 20:28:24 GMT -9 Dryw the Harper said:

This is the set all the fuss is about? Really? This is the first time I actually got to see them and I don't get it. Is there another page of missing figures? I don't even see a scantily clad saloon girl or a half-naked Native American Indian. I'm very confused.

Dryw the Harper

Ditto... Bring on the saloon girls and Indian princesses...

[revgunn]

You got a point. Your check is in the mail for the promotion.

I'm just trying to help, and I don't waste time being a hater.
Thanks for the kind words.

[deathdragon]

Glad to see there back with more on the way