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Post by Dave on Mar 20, 2012 21:17:10 GMT -9
How about this? A series of 2D large format maps, 1"=5 foot scale. The theme is "inside a derelict starship" and will consist of rooms and corridors to start out with. Walls and other objects will be represented flat (2D). I'll probably include 3D/2.5D stand-up doors so you can more easily indicate their open/closed state.
I'd like to set these up in 20"x20" sections. These sections will be populated by me (placement of walls, etc.), while the entire 20x20 section is a modular tile and can be arranged with other tiles any way you want. I like this size because it fits pretty neatly on 6 A4/letter sheets.
Each section can be a stand-alone product, and will be totally compatible with others in its series. Probably easily mirror-imaged as well. In this format (the size, mostly) I can consider some extra layers, too.
What do you think?
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Post by Parduz on Mar 20, 2012 23:57:43 GMT -9
Just talking about me, I'm not sure.... small tiles (a la Space Hulk or Legions of Steel) seems to me a better choice for various reason:
- may cost less to print (i print using online service, and the price of 4x 10x15cm photo is 1/3 of a single 20x30 sheet)
- more modular
- can be randomly draw as cards for "unknown maps" (if they're all the same size)
The Space Crusade tiles were 4 big squares, and the missions and scenarios "suffered" the poor modularity of that choice.
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Post by Tommygun on Mar 21, 2012 1:09:44 GMT -9
Are you planning to do all the objects and furniture in the rooms from a top down oblique perspective or will these be empty generic rooms?
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Post by kiladecus on Mar 21, 2012 1:25:16 GMT -9
Paper Make iT! did this with his SPACE BASE sets. He designed these in Shuffler, and they were VERY nice. I agree with Parduz (as usual) that modular pieces are nice. Then again, when I was playing the STAR WARS miniatures battles, it was nice to have an entire map... Make sure that if you design this that you keep in mind two things: > If used for a miniatures battle, keep the areas free of "clutter" for larger pieces to have "paths" to follow. (Since it is inside a ship, then you would have corridors 2-3" wide). > Make sure there is enough debris (crates, etc.) to provide cover if two opposing armies are starting at opposite ends. > Try to avoid "bottlenecks." The last thing you want is a tight spot in the middle of the map that draws all of your battles into a melee free-for-all. > Make sure there are plenty of rooms to explore for RPG games. I know that I may seem like a downer, but with the RY-KRINN (excuse the misspelling) and other "ship" maps out there, I am not sure if this won't just get lost in the sea of similar product. I know with your talent you can pull this off, but in my opinion, it might be more problems and work than it is worth...  |
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Post by stevelortz on Mar 21, 2012 5:15:34 GMT -9
Having spent several months aboard an aircraft carrier and four years aboard a submarine, having gone to general quarters and participated in fire, repel boarders and berserk officer drills on numberless occassions, I enjoy considering all the derelict starship games. Most of them are similar to what combat would be like aboard an aircraft carrier. MarDet (marine detachment) was directly responsible for that activity aboard the carrier.
The whole crew used whatever was at hand aboard the submarine. For repel boarders, the weapons officer would issue M1911 45s and Thompson submachine guns to designated people. Other people would get butcher knives from the galley. In engineering we would get out the 18" crescent wrenches. Fire extinguishers could be good, too.
There were very small windows in the watertight doors between compartments. We would take the 18" crescent wrenches and stand to the side of a watertight door, where we couldn't be seen through the window, and wait to crush the skulls of any boarders who tried to get through.
The passageways were very narrow and very short on the boat, snaking their ways amidst the machinery, with plenty of places for concealment. Combat in that setting was like a game of hide and seek with very short range, lethal combat.
My favorite fighting-with-aliens-on-a-starship game is The AWFUL GREEN THINGS from Outer Space by Tom Wham. It originally appeared in Dragon magazine, and is presently published by Steve Jackson Games.
Have fun, Dave! Have fun!
Steve
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Post by mruseless on Mar 21, 2012 5:28:31 GMT -9
Dave, I like the idea. I could have used something like that recently (and maybe again soon!)
Steve, great descriptions of drills for repelling boarders, I love hearing about stuff like that!
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Post by Dave on Mar 21, 2012 8:29:22 GMT -9
small tiles (a la Space Hulk or Legions of Steel) 20x20 map tiles probably aren't the best way to achieve what I want with this. After looking around a bit, I think it might be better to create a simple collection of "loose" corridors, corridor sections, rooms and room sections. You can arrange these almost any way you want, easily switch them around between games, mount them on foamcore or whatever. Lots of advantages to it, I think. Similar to this, but in 2D paper form [large awesome image]: www.creativegamescapes.dreamhosters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/FullDetailFix.jpgAre you planning to do all the objects and furniture in the rooms from a top down oblique perspective or will these be empty generic rooms? The perspective for each section will probably be "centered above" with some dimensionality built into the view to give a sense of object heights. Basically the way "Clue" has drawn its rooms forever, just not as exaggerated/dimensional, and the corridors will be done in the same style. Clue game board: s3images.coroflot.com/user_files/individual_files/132995_4YPDGhuHlSBwZ_u4Z1xptUWNb.jpgThe default textures will be empty rooms and corridors with the occasional terminal, bank of lockers or machinery set into the walls (your ideas welcome). Heavy damage, furnishings and other objects can be handled with layers, which I can now go crazy with since everything will be set up on letter-sized sheets again. The 20x20 format's conversion to A4/letter was putting some practical limits on the number of layers I could consider before. > If used for a miniatures battle, keep the areas free of "clutter" for larger pieces to have "paths" to follow. (Since it is inside a ship, then you would have corridors 2-3" wide). I'm going to start with 2" corridors as my standard, and eventually there'll be corridors from 1"-6" wide. > Make sure there is enough debris (crates, etc.) to provide cover if two opposing armies are starting at opposite ends. No worries there. For maps like this I'm always thinking about places to take cover. > Try to avoid "bottlenecks." The last thing you want is a tight spot in the middle of the map that draws all of your battles into a melee free-for-all. > Make sure there are plenty of rooms to explore for RPG games. This format puts bottlenecking entirely in the control of the person setting up the boards. I know that I may seem like a downer, but with the RY-KRINN (excuse the misspelling) and other "ship" maps out there, I am not sure if this won't just get lost in the sea of similar product. That's always a concern, but it's par for the course. And it's somewhat offset by the release of new products which have the advantage of some free advertising. |
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Post by kiladecus on Mar 21, 2012 10:25:10 GMT -9
Sounds to me like you are on the right path! 2" halls and corridors are perfect!
I wish you luck with this. I have the feeling that no matter what you do there will be a market for it (so a couple ideas weren't ground-breaking... I for one LOVED your story dice).
Best of luck, and keep those awesome projects coming! ;D
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Post by sammo on Mar 21, 2012 12:48:01 GMT -9
Just to throw another 2 cents on the pile...
One thing I don't like about the "corridors/rooms/spacehulk" style tiles is that it doesn't really feel like the inside of a star ship. So unless the game/scenario is inside some huge station or capital ship it doesn't capture the mood so much for me.
I'd really like to see some tiles along the lines of the skeleton key games star ship tiles where is is possible to make a full ship. The sets themselves were a single ship with a few options for rearranging and some compatibility with the other tile sets. Though I felt that the modularity in those sets could have been handled a lot better , it was really cool to be able to develop a map of a frigate, transport or a shuttle to use (I have generated one on several occasions to use as the players ship and been able to have many enjoyable boarding encounters).
I might be in the minority here, but for me there are so many corridor/intersection/room tile sets available that something that has a bit more variety might appeal to me more.
That being said, I love the style you've got going. I'd really like to see a star ship done in the same style as the cargo bay tiles you made (which were really awesome, I wanted more than 3!), regardless of the format.
Of course I wasn't really thinking of the whole "derelict" part, which makes more sense to have the corridors/rooms the way that you are planning since it makes for more of the dungeon crawl in space. But if you move on to functional ships!
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Post by Tommygun on Mar 21, 2012 19:33:07 GMT -9
Just had a few thoughts.
You could have a set of 1 inch wide air ducts/utility tunnels with the usual 90 degree corners and four ways etc.
Just to give more set up options to move around the board and very close quarters combat.
Maybe a few odd shapes other than square.
A few triangles, half round and three quarter rounds that can fit next to the square tiles.
Even some curved corridors and possibly a round elevator to make them stand out visually from a small square room.
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Post by enpeze on Mar 23, 2012 2:03:11 GMT -9
I find the 20x20 modular tiles idea very good. There is not much comparable in this size out there. Ok, there are smaller tile sets out but not 20x20. As a roleplayer I think its easier and time saving (during a rpg session) to build a map from bigger tiles than from smaller.
If you dont know which tiles, just make both formats (small Space Hulk kind of tiles AND larger for roleplaying)
If you make the interior and furniture in your usual beautiful style then I surely will buy it.
The question is if you design the floorplans like dirty gothic 40k style or more modern and cleaner in light colours? i would prefer modern, but I´ll take both.
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 23, 2012 3:36:41 GMT -9
Again, maybe layers can do the gothic/modern thing?
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Post by kiladecus on Mar 23, 2012 6:14:24 GMT -9
The more I think about this, the better I like it!
I know that this will look great, I am sure of that!
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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2012 8:06:07 GMT -9
I find the 20x20 modular tiles idea very good. There is not much comparable in this size out there. Ok, there are smaller tile sets out but not 20x20. As a roleplayer I think its easier and time saving (during a rpg session) to build a map from bigger tiles than from smaller. If you dont know which tiles, just make both formats (small Space Hulk kind of tiles AND larger for roleplaying) Yeah, I may just do both types eventually. I'm probably going to start with Space Hulk style, since everybody understands how they work. If you make the interior and furniture in your usual beautiful style then I surely will buy it. Right now I'm trying to work in 2D as much as possible, to see if it's a viable format for me. It's also going to make me a more well-rounded model designer, since I haven't done a lot of viewed-from-above 2D stuff. So I will do 3D/2.5D doorways so you can indicate if they are open/closed, but I have no plans to offer other 3D elements on these terrain sets. I have some ideas for 3D scene-dressing bits for science fiction (cargo containers, computer consoles, incidental stuff like that) and these would be offered as stand-alone kits (such as a Spaceport Cargoes set, a High Tech Accessories set, etc.). The question is if you design the floorplans like dirty gothic 40k style or more modern and cleaner in light colours? i would prefer modern, but I´ll take both. Again, maybe layers can do the gothic/modern thing? More like Alien/Aliens, Guncrawl, traditional industrial scifi. The "spacetrucker" look. I'll be using layers to add weathering, change floor markings or damage, and change the positions of junctions and doorways and things like that. The layers have plenty of work to do without also needing to cover multiple art styles, so I'll have to save the gothic look stuff for some other time. |
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Post by Parduz on Mar 23, 2012 9:09:50 GMT -9
Just to throw in an idea, i remember that there was rules for "air conducts" (seems to me for Space hulk? dunno) that basically meant that another virtual corridor map was on top of the real one (sort of an added layer for the aliens only).
If you feel adventurous, you could try to design air conducts that PHISICALLY can be placed over your tile.... so it will be the first 2.5D mapping system, or multilayered tile mapping system ;D
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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2012 14:57:12 GMT -9
Here's some of my preliminary texturing for the ground tiles. These all need lots more shading, color adjusting and weathering, but it should give you an idea of my starting part.  |
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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2012 21:10:15 GMT -9
Spaceship flooring test. Trying out some "Mars dust" and shading effects. Still needs a lot more weathering, but it's getting there.  |
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Post by Dave on Mar 23, 2012 22:17:15 GMT -9
After more weathering and some color tweaks:  |
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Post by Parduz on Mar 24, 2012 1:12:46 GMT -9
  .....holy cow..... - edit - Now that i can breath again, two questions: Do you think they could be print so that a square is 30 or 40 mm wide? I mean: is the resolution high enough? AT43 minis have bases so large, and i bought them cheap to rebuild Legions of Steels.... What about some tiles with lights on it (or under the grills).... so to make "paths" on the ship like the emergency paths on airplanes?
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Post by uptrainfan89 on Mar 24, 2012 6:07:34 GMT -9
These are looking really good and the texturing is just amazing! These would look really nice for the GunCrawl games I'm getting ready to put together! ;D
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Post by algoesnext on Mar 24, 2012 6:55:54 GMT -9
With rivets and bolt heads for the steam punk guys?
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Post by Dave on Mar 24, 2012 7:06:55 GMT -9
Do you think they could be print so that a square is 30 or 40 mm wide? Yes, I think so. These example pictures show 2" and 1" squares next to each other, and a 2" square is about 50mm across, yes? I'm creating these tiles at 300dpi at actual size, so I think you could increase them maybe 150% would still look sharp. What about some tiles with lights on it (or under the grills).... so to make "paths" on the ship like the emergency paths on airplanes? Yeah, I've been thinking about those. If I can get them to look good, I'll definitely use them somewhere. |
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Post by Dave on Mar 24, 2012 17:54:41 GMT -9
Another type of spaceship corridor floor.  There are now three 4"x10" corridor pieces in pretty good shape, and I'm sure I will add to them. But this is enough to start building a variety of smaller corridors and junctions. |
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Post by enpeze on Mar 25, 2012 0:58:33 GMT -9
the examples are very cool. I am looking forward to the whole set.
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Post by uptrainfan89 on Mar 25, 2012 6:02:32 GMT -9
Another type of spaceship corridor floor. There are now three 4"x10" corridor pieces in pretty good shape, and I'm sure I will add to them. But this is enough to start building a variety of smaller corridors and junctions. I'm really liking the lights on these tiles, it looks really awesome! ;D Also will you have tiles to make different rooms along with the corridors and junction tiles?  |
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2012 6:18:34 GMT -9
Yes! I'm planning to set these up so you can create all sorts of corridors, junctions and rooms.
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Post by uptrainfan89 on Mar 25, 2012 8:13:33 GMT -9
Yes! I'm planning to set these up so you can create all sorts of corridors, junctions and rooms. Awesome! I'm definitely looking forward to this set! I really like the texturing done on the tiles so far, it looks perfect! ;D |
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Post by kiladecus on Mar 25, 2012 12:53:33 GMT -9
And to think I wasn't fully behind this at the start. I guess I was wrong... (Like that has NEVER happened before).  Looking AWESOME! |
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Post by uptrainfan89 on Mar 26, 2012 6:42:05 GMT -9
I was thinking, any chance at seeing a blood spattered floor layer? |
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.....holy cow.....
