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Post by kiladecus on Oct 26, 2012 16:34:48 GMT -9
I am working on the next set of figures... I have three releases planned between now and hte middle of December (that is two weeks per release). Here is a preview of what is coming.... I am going to continue putting a "big" figure in every set. I am posting this here so Parduz can tear it apart... I mean, "Offer constructive criticism." I know I HATE the tail and the dragon head. The lion head may look too large, but I want it to stay that way. I also need to add more mane between the front legs. I REALLY hate that tail (although it is an easy fix). Ok: Feel free to offer advice and suggestions (and, I am NOT going to stop making figures, so don't even suggest that). Have at it... (bracing for impact)... Attachments:
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Post by old squirmydad on Oct 26, 2012 17:02:47 GMT -9
Why do you hate the tail? I think removing tbe cobra head would look better, but I don't hate the tail.
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 27, 2012 3:51:05 GMT -9
Well, you can tell it's supposed to be a cobra.... That's good, I guess! I tried to incorporate a snake into it, but I think it might be best if I add a spiked or bladed tail like the one that Draco had in DragonHeart. That would be cool. Thanks, Squirmydad! You gave me new inspiration!
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Post by cobra on Oct 27, 2012 4:11:04 GMT -9
The tail looks fine for me too, with one comment: wrong eyes - they dont look like snake eyes. Difficult (almost impossible) to see in small scale though, but the large scale picture show it clearly.
/Cobra
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 27, 2012 6:28:38 GMT -9
I spent HOURS looking at images yesterday, and I couldn't find the right mix... I solved that problem with these simple changes. Attachments:
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 27, 2012 15:30:08 GMT -9
Hi Kil,
I like the size of the lion head too, but maybe you should boost the dragon head for ballance? Chimera, for me, have always been cool monsters in theory but really hard to make work in practice. And the goat head. I never understood the goat head. I mean you are dealing with a DRAGON and a LION does a GOAT really make that much difference? Anyway, you cant do anything about that, (unless you have a time machine and incredible influence over ancient societies . . .you are a mad scientist after all.)
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 28, 2012 15:35:41 GMT -9
Thanks, CBL! ;D I actually DID go back in time.... it was originally a pig. I tried to convice them that a boar was a better idea, but they asked me why I was causing them so much trouble. I told them that I wasn't trying to goad them, and they misunderstood... Apparently, I am not as good with the Mesopotanian dialects as I thought I was. Any way, I considered making the dragon head larger (and actually DID increase the size of the thing), but I was afraid that it would make the whold thing look out of balance. I like the fact taht the lion head is the mainstay of the beast. Not that I am vain or anything, but I have not seen a Chimera figure that looks as good as this one. Most look like a dragon with heads cut and pasted on... I tried to make the heads look like they belonged. On a serious note, I think that the goat was there to represent the evil entities like Satan (Lucifer, the Devil, the Ex-Wife... whatever name you prefer). I could be wrong (which I often am, and Steve Lortz sets me stright). Ok, the Codex is written, and IF I can get the other 10 figures drawn and colored, then this set should be ready to hit the "shelf" by this coming weekend... If so, then I will be a whole WEEK ahead of schedule!
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Post by Parduz on Oct 28, 2012 23:45:19 GMT -9
Sorry to be late, is has been an unexpected intense weekend.
You already solved the tail, i see. I'd remove the "shine" you draw on the "spikes" 'cause they seems made of chrome steel.
About the heads, the hard pard is to make three necks "fit" (in a more or less believable manner) on just a pair of shoulders, and you made it. Perhaps having the heads misaligned (say, moving the goat and the dragon forward) could have made the things a bit simpler.
The new dragon head looks good to me, even if that head is "rotated" in the opposite way ot the lion, but the dagon horns needs to follow this perspective too. Another thing i'd try is to remove the upper line of the eyebrow, and invert the direction of the lower line. In my mind this may result in a more menacing dragon... but i'm unsure.
What is "wrong" (not really, take my english words with some flexibility) is where the wings are attached. As the draw does not suggest that the Chimera is rotating his "torso", his left wing should start where his left shoulder ends. Right now it seems to me that the wings are seen from a front view, while the whole body is seen from 3/4.
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 29, 2012 16:18:27 GMT -9
You are right, as usual. I think that the right wing is fine, but the left wing should be pulled back a bit... the thing is I don't think I have the skills to pull it off. On a positive note, I did do two more fiugres... this set is going to have about 11 figures, but some are going to be big. I thought it would be good since they are called knights to have some cavalry units. Since it is a beastman set, I didn't want beastmen on horses... and the centaurs turned out ok in the last two sets. I know there are some concerns about the spikes on the Chimera, but I plan to color them to look like bone, so the chromatic look will fade (I hope). Want to see some of the new figures? The poses are a little off, but I spent ALL day on two figures' fronts and backs. I generally do quite a bit more, but with bigger figures, there needs to be more detail... Here is the RHINOTAUR. Yes, he has a pulse cannon! The left arm with the axe is a little off, but I wanted it to contrast the gun. I also wanted to twist the figure (as with the Chimera, and the Centaurs), but I decided to keep it a profile figure. Attachments:
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 29, 2012 16:21:02 GMT -9
Here is my Ratling Necromancer. I LOVE the way the staff turned out! I like the Pulse pistol, too, but that staff... WOW! Attachments:
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 29, 2012 18:32:03 GMT -9
These are very original. The Rhinotaur is especially impressive, though the ratling has his . . . charms?
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Post by hackbarth on Oct 30, 2012 3:46:02 GMT -9
Rhinotaur!? Excellent piece! I loved the ratling necromancer too. Specially the ears.
I would go with the snake tail chimera. I didn't think it is bad ata all. I only second the opinion that a normal snake head is better than a king cobra snake head.
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Post by Rhannon on Oct 30, 2012 4:11:39 GMT -9
More rhinotaurs, please Dave. They remind me strongly my first sci-fi zoats. Please.
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 30, 2012 16:12:28 GMT -9
Well, since you guys like it.. here is the colored version. I switched the weapon to be a Partical Beam Projection Cannon. Yeah... Attachments:
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 30, 2012 16:20:18 GMT -9
Here is a sneak peek of one of the Commanders, SAKKAR. This set is moving very slow because of the amount of detail I am adding, and trying new things (that don't always work the first time. He has a Projection Rifle and two bladed shields I designed a LONG time ago. Thought he would look good with them.. and since he DOES have four arms.... ;D Attachments:
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Oct 30, 2012 17:32:04 GMT -9
OK David!
These are AWESOME!
Great job dude~
onemonkeybeau
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 30, 2012 18:32:19 GMT -9
what Beau said!
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 31, 2012 2:41:19 GMT -9
Thanks, fellas! I was going to joke and say I sold my soul for the ability to draw, but with the latest results, I was afraid someone might believe me. I was a little discouraged that the last couple sets haven't moved (except for some close friends that support me). I decided that I should stop trying to make what I think people want, and make what I want. I figured people may say, "Why are you drawing fantasy figures with high-tech energy weapons?" Because I want to! We will see what happens.
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Post by Rhannon on Oct 31, 2012 3:34:19 GMT -9
... I decided that I should stop trying to make what I think people want, and make what I want... Dave, imho ( but I'm ignorant about the business dynamics as well as I don't have personal skills in drawing figures ) this is the right way. This is a great forum ( imho the biggest ad more acttive on paper figures ) so you can ask for opinions to the artists and guys here. But here we are not very many. There are no numbers for a valid trade statistics. Some of us have different interests in the same figure. It 'a matter of personal preference. So the right start can only be "what I want" ( and I like, because just "to want" is not enough to the designer and buyers ) The other way is to offer more general products (and I do not mean less beautiful). You draw very particular figures with its own personality and history (I love them for that, but I'm just a collector), but other people, not in this forum, maybe need a little more generic good figures ( example: a squad of guards sci-fi, rather than a mutants' gang , or a group of robots ... ditto for fantasy) so that figures are more adaptable to gaming systems that already they, the players, use. Ciao
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Post by Reivaj on Oct 31, 2012 5:37:13 GMT -9
WOW great figures Dave!! I love the Ratling Necromancer!! go on!! every set is better
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 31, 2012 8:09:29 GMT -9
Thanks guys!
@ Rhannon: It is difficult to guess what will sell and what won't. I try to post polls and get what feedback I can here (the forum is GREAT for that).
My Warriors of Tauria sold through the roof. I made RPGNow's Top 100 list with it (I peaked at 54, which is AMAZING). So I thought that people like Minotaurs.
My Xiarn set did ok, but nothing amazing.
Warmancer's Set One did very well (I think largely becuase of the skills of my "silent partner" on that).
My Pet Drake has been downloaded HUNDREDS of times, but then again, it is FREE! (Both good and bad there).
I feel my last two Warmancers sets have been some of my best artwork yet, but without the support of my very good friends, I wouldn't have even sold ONE set.
SO, is it that my sets aren't moving because the art isn't good? I don't think so. I think it could be that there is a lot going on right now, and people aren't buying. (I hope that is what it is).
I just don't want to fall into the same "cookie cutter" pattern and have stuff out there like every artists does.
I am afraid that if I try to go in a direction that someone else has, then my work will get compared to theirs and I will fail miserably!
When you think of "Zombies," the first thing that comes to mind is more than likely DARKMOOK and OKUMARTS.
When you think of modern day soldiers, you can't help but think of Jim Hartman's Terra Force or Slick's sets.
Dragons: MESPER and Jabbro Jones.
I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
I just want to be able to produce some fun figures that once in a while will knock someone's socks off, and get a little sometihng in return to show mw that my stuff is worth something.
I look at amazing artists like DRYW the HARPER and Grendel's_Mother64. They both have different gifts, but they share their work with the world at no charge. They could easily tryto sell it, but they choose not to.
I don't know... maybe I am looking at this whole thing wrong.
I spent ALL day on a single figure and am not 100% happy with it. Then agai, people asked for more Rhinotaurs... so the Rhinotaur champion's front and back are drawn. I will color it, and then STILL have a half a dozen more to draw.
What is the point to this post I wrote? Not really sure. Just thinking out-loud I guess.
Thank you for reading this...
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Post by hackbarth on Oct 31, 2012 8:26:12 GMT -9
Drawing (or writing) to please others always end up pleasing no one. Making things that please yourself is often what ends up making success. I bet you hadn't researched to produce Warriors of Tauria, but made them because you felt the itch and needed to scratch it.
Do what you want, or what you feel that seems to be missing. And don't fret trying to discover what makes success and what not. Do because you love it.
P.S. SAKKAR! Finnaly I'll have a stand-in for the X-Com Snakemen Aliens.
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Post by Rhannon on Oct 31, 2012 9:34:59 GMT -9
Drawing (or writing) to please others always end up pleasing no one. Making things that please yourself is often what ends up making success. I bet you hadn't researched to produce Warriors of Tauria, but made them because you felt the itch and needed to scratch it. Do what you want, or what you feel that seems to be missing. And don't fret trying to discover what makes success and what not. Do because you love it. P.S. SAKKAR! Finnaly I'll have a stand-in for the X-Com Snakemen Aliens. Wow hackbarth! have you tried the new Xcom? I played this on the xbox 360 and I'm very satisfied, despite some differences.
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Post by kiladecus on Oct 31, 2012 13:49:05 GMT -9
Thanks, Hackbarth! You are right. My dad used to say, "One size fits ALL means it doesn't fit anyone." I am feeling better! I actualy did a Rhinotaur Champion, and did a figure that I have NEVER cared for... a Satyr/Fawn. Reivaj did a great job with his, but I have never been a fan of them (except for in Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian when they go flying through the air.. that is cool). It actually doesn't look too bad. You may ask whay I would make one if I didn't like them... because, you can't make a Beastman set without one. (Plus it has a Projection rifle. Powerful weapons make ANY figure cooler)! ;D
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Post by hackbarth on Oct 31, 2012 16:03:57 GMT -9
Wow hackbarth! have you tried the new Xcom? I played this on the xbox 360 and I'm very satisfied, despite some differences. I was following all the news about it since they announced it. But right now I don't have a Windows computer to play it, or the free time that it would deserve... I can wait.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 17:28:00 GMT -9
...It is difficult to guess what will sell and what won't... You are not alone, my friend... Actually some sets of mine failed (miserably!!! while I was expecting them to "top the charts" and au contraire some which I didn't expect anything special surprisingly succeed! So, well its pretty banal, but there is no straightforward and 100% perfect way how to predict popularity / demand. You just have to take a chance and risk... (Of course you can try to minimize risk factor - its what Rhannon is talking about - more generic themes etc but, as you've already mentioned it's burden with toughest competition etc) But I can't agree in full with Hackbarth - unless you are not writing / drawing for your own purpose/fun (ie not writing "for drawer") or you're not completely detached / abstract from surrounding world - it means that when you decided to PUBLISH your projects you ARE creating also for OTHER people! So to some extent you just HAVE to accept your users/target group expectations / taste / demands. For example in technical aspect - your files have to fulfill some minimum standards (file format, min. resolution, colors space requirements etc). The same for figurines - nowadays they, like it or not, just have to be front and back full color, plus reasonably (ie playable) posed etc... some other "parameters" like tabs dimensions, outline thickness and even colors should meet some common expectations (for example colors should be saturated/weight so even low-end printer will output acceptable printout). That's about "hard" part of your projects. Then there is kinda "soft" part - genre (fantasy, sci-fi, horror, wild west, post-apo etc), theme (playable characters: elves, dwarfs, dragons etc or... scenery: buildings, accessories, scenery or vehicles, or "tools" vide tiles, bases... These are kinda cliche / standards - but they are expected by quite substantial amount of your potential buyers! In other worlds - if you are creating with your customers/users in mind you have in general to accept their (at least most reasonable / common:) expectations! Bear in mind that we are NOT talking here about so called high-art. We have to accept that creating *paper figurines* for people who will using them for something such "trivial" as playing the tabletop games (with having fun in mind mostly) - we have to adjust at least to some of common expectations, otherwise their (gamers/customers) will simply choose other figurines / publishers. (I know, it's kinda silly example... but even most prominent haute couture designers aren't so "brave" to design three legs pants - even if it might looks spectacular and innovative still it would be totally weird as people are considered as two legs beings.. like it or not, designers and artists have to sacrifice some of their creative freedom on utility altar and simply accept some limitations Well, you can try to stand out and create something out of the "boundaries" - but do not expect in such situation generally acclaimed enthusiasm not mentioning immediate financial reward... it *might* happen but it's mostly situational luck and being in right place in right time - usually it needs a lot of hard work for building recognizable style and, in long term, reputation (assuming that you are not Van Gogh etc - but for him and many other precursors in art appreciation comes kinda too late so it's not the case:) Anyway - your have specific, distinguish art style and you are in beginning of building your very own collection and offer - that's your strength! You started as publisher just a couple months ago and your achievements are already impressive - so keep your good work!
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Post by kiladecus on Nov 1, 2012 1:20:21 GMT -9
Thanks SO much fothat MESPER! ;D I just got a little discouraged because I was looking at the sales report, and I produced something like 3 sets in October, and it was my worst month-to-date, and I offered what I thought was my best figures. I took another look at the report, and I noticed that there are STILL sales poping up for the Warriors of Tauria and Warmancers One... NOTHING suprises me more than to see that the set I did with Inked Adventures (LE4: Barrow Tomb) still has sales hitting here and there. As far as the final thoughts, I can't thank you enough! You have been a driving force for me, and I think of YOU as the catalyst I needed to try to do this on my own. I know that if you wouldn't have jumped in like you did, I wouldn't have been as inspired and enouraged as I was to begin this. I hope people don't think I was whining the other day... I was just a little frustrated and wasn't sure why I have been producing more, and yielding lower results. Glad to know it isnt just me! Thanks again for the kind words!
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 1, 2012 4:43:20 GMT -9
Hi Kil,
Welcome to the club! I started professional theatre in 1988. It was true all the way through my career that the shows I thought were my best work drew the smallest audiences. You get used to it. And in theatre, if people don't come when the play is running, they can't decide to see it a year later. I kinda think that the people buying Warmancer I are going to check out Warmancer II and III eventually.
If not, you are still producing new stuff and they really look great!
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Post by kiladecus on Nov 1, 2012 10:57:20 GMT -9
Thanks, CBL! Having people say that I make good figures is VERY rewarding in itself... especially from the likes of you. I admit my talent (limited as it may be) continues to grow as I try to push myself with each figure. I LOVE checking this forum and getting the feedback I am. Thanks everyone... ;D (I couldn't find the right image, so slap these together in your mind). LOL!
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Post by Christopher Roe on Nov 1, 2012 12:57:59 GMT -9
Kiladecus, don't sweat it. I've been there and done that. I've even made a few turkeys in my time, and I've been surprised by a few things I *thought* were going to tank badly.
I'm in full agreement with Mesper and Hackbarth.
Mesper's right in that once you start making stuff with other people in mind, their tastes come into the picture in a big way, and "do your own thing" only really works if your tastes happen to align with those of your target audience to begin with. If your tastes don't overlap or align, that's when you end up feeling like you're out of touch with the market.
However, that's not necessarily a bad thing, since you're presumably doing stuff that you like as well. The trick is to make time for both things--the stuff you know other people like, and the stuff you like. It helps you scratch a creative itch and do something that's all you with no compromises. So, yeah, Hackbarth's commentary applies there.
Take me, for example--I'm known for serious sci fi stuff, but what I really love is wacky stuff like giant paper Legos, and I also developed an interest in dollhouse scale stuff a while back. I don't mention either of those two things very often, at least not to the people who like my serious sci fi stuff because they tend to start wondering if I've taken leave of my senses, but I make some time to focus on the "me" stuff every once in a while. ;D
I've been watching the progress you've made so far, and I think you're doing great. I can see the improvement in every set you do, and it's obvious that you're enjoying yourself. As long as you're having fun doing it, that's all that really matters.
As for being discouraged with your sales...well, keep in mind that this is a niche hobby. Even at the top of the food chain, nobody's in danger of retiring a millionaire or even a thousandaire. The thing that makes a difference is the size of your back catalog--the more stuff you have, the more stuff you have for future customers to buy, and all that trickle income adds up.
Hang in there, but more importantly, have fun doing it. ;D
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