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Post by spaceranger42 on May 15, 2013 9:18:53 GMT -9
I had glue on hand before I found this forum. I have done other paper crafts, greeting cards, book marks, etc. so I had some 3M no wrinkle glue sticks. I am finding that I really don't like the 3M glue stick for card models. I have seen mention of double sided tape in a few places but I am open to suggestions.
I will say that all of the figures I have built over the last week or so have been just fine and dandy with the 3M glue. However, I laminate those sheets with a peel n stick contact paper then burnish the hell out of them once they are folded and glued.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 15, 2013 9:33:14 GMT -9
I am a fan of using Super77 spray glue. I put a catalog in a largish box, and lay a bunch of standees out on the open catalog. A quick spray and they're all ready to fold up. I use a catalog so I can just flip the page and end up with a fresh gluing surface.
If there are tiny bits that I don't think the spray glue won't hold up well with, I might just use some white school glue applied with tip of my finger.
That's the glue combo I've used for hundreds of standees and a mountain of terrain bits.
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Post by spaceranger42 on May 15, 2013 9:58:00 GMT -9
What about tabs for buildings and what not? That is where my fight with the gluestick is. I built Daves free hovel and for the live of me despite gentle presessure and repeated applications of glue some bits still want to pop up. I am going to be building a goodly number of buildings for a supers game pretty soon and I want to make sure the are solid.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 15, 2013 10:16:20 GMT -9
I bought a bundle of all of Dave's buildings at the end of last year, and have built a number of simple and complex ones. For the tabs, I just use a *thin* coat of white glue. I put a thin line down and use my finger to smear it over the tab. It doesn't take a lot of white glue to get it to stick well, and too much will warp things. I use white glue to hold down the flaps of his roofs that fold under, and I use white glue to affix windows/dormers etc. I've seen lots of suggestions over the years from people using glue sticks or glue pens. I tried some glue sticks and a glue pen, but it felt harder to get consistent coverage without making a mess. I tried a glue tape dispenser, but it was EXPENSIVE relative to other solutions. With Dave's buildings, I often cut custom cardstock pieces to double the thickness of the roof and wall pieces - I just like the really solid feel I get doing that. For those pieces, I spray em with the Super77. I don't get any warping from the spray glue.
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Post by Parduz on May 15, 2013 12:42:15 GMT -9
I use doubleside adhesive tape for the minis, the kind used for the mirrors. It is about 1mm thick and, depending on the brand, it could be made by a "net" central layer and some kind of foam on the surfaces, or just foam. I like the added thikness. But it can makes.... how can i say... like the mozzarella on the pizza ...when you cut it and keep being a little sticky on the cut edges (again, it depends on the brand). About models and tabs, i use superglue and pair of pliers (the kind you use in electronics). I HATE the time spent mounting and building, so i want to go fast
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Post by spaceranger42 on May 15, 2013 13:00:43 GMT -9
I find it ironic that a guy in Italy is making pizza reference I have some thick super glue on hand, I will try that too and see how I like that. I have thought about reinforcing some walls either with card or with a bit of foam core too.
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Post by Vermin King on May 15, 2013 13:44:27 GMT -9
I'm probably the oddball here, but I use cheap white glue applied with a toothpick. Thin application is the key and pressure until glue sets, well, until it grips. The toothpick is versatile for applying the varying amounts of glue needed, and it keeps my hands from picking up stickiness that could mar the finish of the piece.
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Post by glennwilliams on May 15, 2013 14:18:11 GMT -9
About the only use I find for glue sticks is laminating figures and terrain boards onto matte board. I tried the no-wrinkle and just don't find it useful.
Best for is Elmer's Tacky glue, but I use the finger technique as well.
I don't use super glue as I think it's too expensive (and I've glued my fingers together a few too many times--being a klutz is a factor in my glue choice).
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Post by spaceranger42 on May 15, 2013 14:35:43 GMT -9
Brief "war" story- I have been buying and painting game minis since I was 14, so 24 years now. Glued fingers can be a pain. Gluing part of a mini to yourself is maddening. But Zap used to seal the bottles with a plastic nipple which you have to snip off (some brands still do this). When I was 16 I was sitting at my desk painting minis, found myself in need of glue and not seeing my x-acto knife I figured I would just bite that bit of plastic off. You can see where this is going. I actually glued my lips together on one side. My mom found this terribly funny and I can attest that fingernail polish remover tastes as bad as it smells.
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Post by glennwilliams on May 15, 2013 16:24:17 GMT -9
Brief "war" story- I have been buying and painting game minis since I was 14, so 24 years now. Glued fingers can be a pain. Gluing part of a mini to yourself is maddening. But Zap used to seal the bottles with a plastic nipple which you have to snip off (some brands still do this). When I was 16 I was sitting at my desk painting minis, found myself in need of glue and not seeing my x-acto knife I figured I would just bite that bit of plastic off. You can see where this is going. I actually glued my lips together on one side. My mom found this terribly funny and I can attest that fingernail polish remover tastes as bad as it smells. What a great story for mothers everywhere to use on their kids!
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Post by spaceranger42 on May 15, 2013 17:33:32 GMT -9
I told her it was her own fault since she is the one who started me on gaming when I was a little kid. She gave me her old D&D book (1st printing of basic D&D) when I was in the 4th grade.
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Post by hackbarth on May 15, 2013 18:12:29 GMT -9
For the character miniatures I use only two sided tape. Mine is different from the one used by Parduz. I exactly like scotch tape but has an adesive layer on both sides, so it's thin, not 1mm thick.
For buildings I use white glue to glue the paper to the cardboard box, I use a small foam paint roller to apply a thin and consistent layer of glue, the I burnish the printed paper over the cardboard, using a rubber paint roller to put pressure over the sandwiched glue.
When that is dry, I cut with an x-acto knife and glue the tabs using cianoacrilate glue (superglue). Not all cianoacrilate are equal, some doesn't glue paper very well, I use Loctite's Super Bonder. The trick is to put the glue and immediately pressure the tab into place, for some 10 seconds. If you don't apply pressure the glue hardens and a new layer can't be applied over the last one, you'll need to remove a layer of glue and paper from the tab to try again. Once you make some models the process is very easy and fast. Carefull to not glue your fingers to the model, tough.
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 15, 2013 20:37:37 GMT -9
I use Spray Glue for large surfaces, and "contact adhesive" for virtually everything else. I'm not sure what the local equivalents of contact adhesive would be in your countries, but it's a kind of rubber cement that has a particular affinity for itself. You'd apply it to both surfaces and wait a couple minutes, and then firmly press the two surfaces together. It's tacky, but repositionable, for a minute or two, and once bonded is super-strong and won't decay for at least 15 years. (It's also the active ingredient in spray glue)
The downsides: Contact adhesive isn't particularly cheap (though, drop for drop, it's dramatically cheaper than superglue), and it's a little tricky to work with and very, very messy. It also looks a little like snot and sniffing it will make you high. The solvents in it will melt laser printer toner on contact, but they play nice with ink-jet inks and paper varnish.
The upsides: The bond is incredibly strong and stays strong for years. It's repositionable for a few minutes, so it's very easy to get fiddly glue flaps lined up. It doesn't warp paper at all. It sticks to most surfaces, including photo paper with a heavy coat of paper varnish and transparencies, and stays stuck!
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Post by Parduz on May 16, 2013 3:01:33 GMT -9
... "contact adhesive" ... The solvents in it will melt laser printer toner on contact, but they play nice with ink-jet inks and paper varnish. This puzzles me a lot. My experience with HP inkjet is that the ink will melt by just saying "BUH!" loud enough. There's any web link about that "contact adhesive"? I'd try to see how it's called here from the "ingredients"....
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Post by bravesirkevin on May 16, 2013 3:13:19 GMT -9
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Post by dcbradshaw on May 16, 2013 5:13:16 GMT -9
For tabs and fiddly bits-
Someone mentioned a while back, I want to say it was Dave Okum, that he uses wood glue (glorified PVA, sure) and I tried it and haven't gone back to the non-wrinkle sticks.
I end up pouring out a small puddle on a scrap of paper, and using an old cheap brush to paint it onto my surfaces.
I actually buy the Gorilla wood glue, it's a pretty big bottle and lasts a long time. I'm not sure how much real difference there is between that and the cheap school white glue.
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Post by spaceranger42 on May 16, 2013 5:15:35 GMT -9
Contact adhesive is usually rubber cement here in the states. Not my favorite to work with. I use it in leather working.
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Post by pblade on May 16, 2013 6:48:15 GMT -9
I use standard 3M Scotch glue stick for laminating figures, and the same brand "paper adhesive" for buildings and such. I've not had much luck with the spray glue, so I generally avoid it.
What I like about these are they're fairly low water content, so warping isn't an issue. The adhesive has a small tip - they actually increased its size recently - so it can get in very small places. It also bonds & dries *very* quickly, which I like.
- Pb
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Post by old squirmydad on May 16, 2013 9:09:00 GMT -9
Gluesticks for figures and big flat surfaces, Aleene's tacky glue for everything else. Strong, sets up quick, low paper warpage factor. I always found Elmer's to be too watery and I can't use spray glue in the house.
Never thought f using wood glue or polyurethane glue, they seem like overkill choices, but I've got lots of both so I'll have to try them sometime.
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Post by afet on May 16, 2013 15:41:13 GMT -9
I use glue sticks only for minis and gluing tiles on Foam core. For the rest I use Aleen's Tacky glue (available at Michaels). It has a low moisture content, so it dries quickly. I put a glob of it onto a piece of scrap then apply it to tabs and such with a larger tongue depressor, the end of which I've carved into a flat screwdriver-like shape.
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Post by okumarts on May 16, 2013 18:33:44 GMT -9
I use Uhu glue sticks for figures and some terrain. For heavy duty terrain or vehicles I use thin layers of wood/white glue. I buy the kind that dries clear. PVA glue. If it is applied thinly it dries quickly and does not warp.
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Post by wyvern on May 17, 2013 1:58:45 GMT -9
I've been modelling with card and paper on and off since the late 1960s, and I'd suggest always giving things a try, as you never know when you might find something that really works well for you.
However, I've found over that time that the "white" PVA "woodworking" glue is probably the single best type overall. I have thick card HO-gauge model railway buildings that are still solid and viable as models today that were glued with that, in a couple of cases over 40 years ago, and some thinner card (110 lb/200 gsm) 20mm and 15mm scale wargames buildings which have survived perfectly for around thirty years that way - with no warping, no falling apart and no staining. A little worn round the edges where they've been handled certainly (and many haven't survived the test of time, like being sat on, as you'd expect), but I've a couple that were used in dioramas that haven't been touched except rarely, and they look as good now as when they were first built. A thin layer of this glue on paper and card is all that's needed, as a thicker one tends to soak in and can warp thin materials.
Toothpicks are good as a spreading tool, though I prefer wooden cocktail sticks, as they're a little more robust and can be easily cut with a sharp hobby knife to reshape the pointed end into, say, a flatter "pressing" tool for those awkward corners inside small box-shapes. Plus being cylindrical, they roll over small and large surfaces easily.
For larger areas, yes gluesticks are probably the ideal lower-cost option. Sprays I find to be very expensive - at least for the ones that will work best. Plus spray control isn't always very precise. Even with the gluesticks, it pays to shop around, as in general, I've found the more expensive of those give better results. Some of the cheaper styles will warp thin card very easily, or come out of their holders in clumps, and some don't stick all that well over extended periods.
I've recently found a glue pen by Germany company Pritt which works very well for paper/card figures, though I'm not sure how widely available this is outside Europe, if at all. The only downside is this cures to a glossy, but transparent, finish, whereas a thin layer of PVA glue will dry virtually transparent but matt or slightly satin, so doesn't show much at all that way. It also becomes very tacky very quickly, so is great for adding unwanted shiny fingerprints to your models you can't then remove...
Double-sided tape I've had some bad experiences with because of staining and impermanent adhesion, so tend to avoid for all purposes now. However, those were problems I discovered around twenty years ago, so the tapes may have improved since (see first paragraph above!).
Incidentally, I noticed in their latest leaflet that the European chain supermarket Lidl has one of their periodic low-cost offers on craft materials starting next Monday (May 20), which includes some the Pritt gluesticks and glue pens. This is in the "all UK" leaflets, so I'm not sure if this applies elsewhere in Europe - and sorry to those of you elsewhere! For those who might be interested, and have a Lidl store nearby, check with them for next week's offers in advance to be sure. Also, sometimes these things are in limited quantities, so can sell out very fast.
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Post by Dave on Jun 14, 2013 19:04:58 GMT -9
I love Aleene's Fast Grab Tacky Glue for gluing tabs. Aleene's Original Tacky Glue also works great, but the fast-grab is my first choice.
If I need to glue two large sections back-to-back, an UHU glue stick works great. Slather on the glue, press the pieces flat under a book for five minutes.
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Post by glennwilliams on Jun 14, 2013 20:18:46 GMT -9
I love Aleene's Fast Grab Tacky Glue for gluing tabs. Aleene's Original Tacky Glue also works great, but the fast-grab is my first choice. If I need to glue two large sections back-to-back, an UHU glue stick works great. Slather on the glue, press the pieces flat under a book for five minutes. Agree and recommend. We actually met Aleene's daughter (who was a hoist on the show) at a restaurant in Cambria.
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Post by spaceranger42 on Jun 15, 2013 8:35:57 GMT -9
Man I have not been to Cambria in years. Not since a vacation to Hearst Castle when I was 12. I will try the fast grab though I have found a 3M glue pen that works well, it is a balancing act between just right and too much.
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