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Post by Parduz on Sept 8, 2013 22:15:52 GMT -9
My thoughts about the covers (finally, no more OT ) - I'd keep the upper right red triangle: the "band" offers no benefits and have less space to write in. - About the background: what about a marble texture instead of the solid color? You could change the kind of the marble for the enemies, while still remain "coherent" with the overall look - Otherwise, instead of changing the background color, changing the "circle of leafs" with something other, for the enemies?
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Post by wyvern on Sept 9, 2013 2:26:02 GMT -9
It would be better to stick with one background colour or style for the whole Roma Aeterna range, I think. The marbling effect Parduz suggested might be interesting to experiment with. I agree too it would be better to retain the laurel wreath for the Romans only, but I'm not sure if anything similar would be distinctive enough to represent ALL the non-Romans, and it may grow tedious trying to adapt various tribal emblems to fit. However, the figure illustration (costume & weapon types - e.g. Dacian falx, British & Gaulish chariots) could be distinctive enough in itself, with the wreath highlighting only the Roman troops. Or maybe add a coloured area - circle or diamond, say - as the background surrounding just the non-Roman figure illustrations.
Sorely tempted to wonder if we might see some Asterix figures in the range eventually! Copyright problems with those too though, I fear...
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Post by Parduz on Sept 9, 2013 3:06:20 GMT -9
Sorely tempted to wonder if we might see some Asterix figures in the range eventually! Glad to know i was not the only one thinking at this
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Post by WackyAnne on Sept 9, 2013 4:21:36 GMT -9
Sorely tempted to wonder if we might see some Asterix figures in the range eventually! Glad to know i was not the only one thinking at this Hardly the only one!
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Post by mesper on Sept 9, 2013 19:10:53 GMT -9
As for the covers, man, they look awesome. I hope we won't have to wait too long till the sets will be available... Thanks! Regarding releases... I'm really very eager and I already have a lot of material - but we are talking here already about ca. 20 issues (then add to this at least some major among requested Enemies of Rome: Celts/Brits, Germanic Tribes, Huns, Carthaginians, Gauls + remake of Persians and Macedonians). Now, let's say 2-3 weeks in average per set (I'll have to remake most of older figurines, including brand new colouring/texturing part). And I'm not going to suspend all other themes/series because of this series. So it might start soon but in overall it's rather very prolonged project! Perhaps one of major issues will be decision WHICH sets should be done in first tier ...what about a marble texture instead of the solid color? You could change the kind of the marble for the enemies, while still remain "coherent" with the overall look Yes, it's very tempting - actually I've tried this already (although in printed issues of Kartonowa Armia) - and I'm not quite happy with result. As for internet, thing is that covers should be at least readable when downscaled for various previews and thumbnails, so I'm afraid that overall impression/look might be cramped or mish-mash effect (too many colours and details on a small area). ...Otherwise, instead of changing the background color, changing the "circle of leafs" with something other, for the enemies? Thought about this. But I agree with Wyvern: ...I agree too it would be better to retain the laurel wreath for the Romans only, but I'm not sure if anything similar would be distinctive enough to represent ALL the non-Romans, and it may grow tedious trying to adapt various tribal emblems to fit. However, the figure illustration (costume & weapon types - e.g. Dacian falx, British & Gaulish chariots) could be distinctive enough in itself, with the wreath highlighting only the Roman troops. Or maybe add a coloured area - circle or diamond, say - as the background surrounding just the non-Roman figure illustrations... So perhaps some circe with RUNIC signs - might work for Celts, German tribes and perhaps even for Gauls, but I have no idea what could be suitable for Carthaginians or Huns... Not sure, however will try to sketch some kind of general/universal signs and/or symbols and will post only if result will be acceptable and interesting... ...Sorely tempted to wonder if we might see some Asterix figures in the range eventually! Copyright problems with those too though, I fear... Heh... I'm a huge fan of Goscinny and Uderzo's work! Well, such figurines could be ready for tomorrow morning:) But there is no way how to publish I'm afraid... Unfortunately paper minis is too niche/small market so no chances for licensed product (the same for all sorts of well known comic/game/movies and tv-series characters I think). Especially that you just can't do something "a'la" = kinda "similar" but different enough to come around legal issues - Asterix, Obelix, Panoramix, Idefix - these just must be identical as on comic book pages. At least for me such a "similar but different" figurine simply couldn't count as Asterix. Then if "Imperium Romanum" tittle raised some doubts then I'm scared even to think regarding Obelix (then beware of menhirs!!! However... I saw some figurines a'la Star Trek characters etc. - these were published as non commercial "fan-arts" together with all proper info/acknowledgements and disclaimers. Don't know, perhaps some project not for sale but only for Forums Members for their personal use would be acceptable?
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shep
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Post by shep on Sept 10, 2013 2:57:57 GMT -9
Now, let's say 2-3 weeks in average per set (I'll have to remake most of older figurines, including brand new colouring/texturing part). And I'm not going to suspend all other themes/series because of this series. So it might start soon but in overall it's rather very prolonged project! Perhaps one of major issues will be decision WHICH sets should be done in first tier Nobody expects you to release the entire series in one big event. Perhaps you should think about releasing one Roman and one enemy set at the same time, like Legionaires and German Tribes at one time and, let's say, Gladiators and Civilians at another time and Auxiliaries and Celts at yet a third time... You could perhaps use "typical" or "regionally iconic" script like runes for all Germanic/Celtic areas, cuneiform for Asia and hieroglyphs for Northern Africa... Also, you could use kind of a "regional color code" for the backgrounds like purple for Rome, green for Northern/Western Europe, dark brown for Asia and sand for Africa. This way, customers can easily see where the enemies are from. There is nothing wrong with publishing Asterix minis as free fanart. As long as you don't make any profit with those, noone can blame you for sharing work you invested into your hobby. However, you shouldn't publish those in the same place where you sell your own minis, since this might be confusing. But there should be nothing to say against sharing Asterix and Co. for free in this forum, on Facebook, on deviantART or in any other forum or blog (as long as the rules for the chosen platform don't say otherwise)...
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Post by madarchitect on Sept 10, 2013 4:30:20 GMT -9
Please no runes for the Celts! It is not their feature. For the Germans I would be hesitant also to use runes which as an alphabet were developed as late as in 4-5th century AD. Celts, had their ogham script but it is not widely known and the relation could not be clear, also acc. to Roman sources (I don't remember which exactly now. I can search if someone's interested) Celtic druids knew and used greek language and script when it was required. I would recommend torque as the frame for Gauls and Celts (which are basicly the same), and for Germans something more generic like deer's skull with horns as the frame or some geometric ornament taken from Germanic jewellery.
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Post by wyvern on Sept 10, 2013 9:40:58 GMT -9
Glad to know I'm not the only Asterix fan here! (Somehow I suspected I wouldn't be...) Some fan art minis would be wonderful. Of course, you could probably spend about as long producing these from all the books as the real-world historical troops though! Oddly, this ties in loosely with another thread for me, about 3D images of paper minis, as many years ago, Viewmaster (don't know if they still exist) produced some Asterix 3D picture stories from the books you could use with their viewers. Given that there were no computers for CGI work in those days, they must have been either stereoscopic pairs of photos of (single-sided?) paper minis set against backgrounds from the stories, or sets of specially drawn images, to give the right perspective for stereo viewing. Viewmaster was always a big thing for me, as it's what introduced me to the world of stereo-image free-viewing when I was a boy. Back to topic. From Mesper's comments about the problems of reduced-size marble effects for thumbnails, etc., I'd think it better to avoid anything too complex, like scripts from various cultures for the covers. Maybe just a single diagnostic rune/symbol/object/etc. would work, though I think the different coloured backdrop to the figure illustration for different areas could be more effective at normal and reduced size.
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Post by mesper on Sept 10, 2013 20:35:08 GMT -9
Ad. marble background / just for fun: There is also "white/gray" marble version - being honest nothing special so probably (if) will post/update later EDIT: Figurine's shadow is too reddish perhaps - but well it's just a mock-up...
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Post by WackyAnne on Sept 10, 2013 22:00:18 GMT -9
Hmm... that came out better than I would have thought, more subtle. I certainly like how the Title/Subtitle look, colour wise; which you'd have trouble pulling off with a much darker background. However, the background colours might be too similar to the flesh colour of the model, etc.
You'll have this to post it alongside the purple background for an accurate comparison, and include the set # (in Roman Numerals, of course!) and minis count (ok, that one can be in Arabic numerals).
Would you then change the background marble colour for each nation in this series?
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Post by Parduz on Sept 10, 2013 22:14:31 GMT -9
Not bad. I had a more white/grey marble in my mind (Carrara marble: ) but i like it.
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Post by madarchitect on Sept 11, 2013 0:35:28 GMT -9
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "Roma" feminine and "Victor" masculine? I'm not proficient with latin but AFAIK it should be rather Roma Invicta (Rome undefeated) or Roma Victrix (Victorious Rome).
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shep
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Post by shep on Sept 11, 2013 3:01:23 GMT -9
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "Roma" feminine and "Victor" masculine? I'm not proficient with latin but AFAIK it should be rather Roma Invicta (Rome undefeated) or Roma Victrix (Victorious Rome). That is absolutely correct...
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Post by stevelortz on Sept 11, 2013 4:52:11 GMT -9
One idea I've been kicking around for the past few years is to do a miniatures campaign based on AD 69, the Year of the Four Emperors. There were two battles of Cremona, the first one in April and the second in October. Many units fought in both battles, but the sides they were on had been shuffled as emperors came and went. Legions had marched in from both Germany and Judea. Some of the legionnaires from Germany had gone native, and were dressed in PLAID TROUSERS! The city of Rome kept sending units north to fight. At one time rough, tough gladiators were brigaded together with the fancy-boy, fortunate-sons of the Praetorian Guard. Units of marines were sent from Ravenna.
During the second battle of Cremona, the two sides fought through the entire night, small group skirmishes in the confusion of the dark.
I have a copy of "The Year of the Four Emperors" by Kenneth Wellesley (New York: Routledge `1975). It makes for some very interesting reading!
Have fun! Steve
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Post by emergencyoverride on Sept 17, 2013 21:44:18 GMT -9
Totally ready for all of this! I love the historical discussion(Military History Masters) and cant wait to get these guys on the table. No matter which set you put out, they will get picked up at once!
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Post by mesper on Sept 18, 2013 11:26:08 GMT -9
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't "Roma" feminine and "Victor" masculine? I'm not proficient with latin but AFAIK it should be rather Roma Invicta (Rome undefeated) or Roma Victrix (Victorious Rome). Yep, thanks! But actually, after @ wyvern's post (quoted below) I was for fun referring to some other game tittled exactly "Roma Victor" (MMORPG - BTW there is also part I and II:) ..."Imperivm Romanvm" and "Imperivm Romanvm II" are/were historical board wargames on the Roman empire (there's a surprise...), designed by Albert A. Nofi, and published in 1978 and 1984 respectively ... I'm still not sure how to tittle this series - however most probably I'll stay with @shep's (thanks again!) suggestion ROMA AETERNA(however there might be also separate tittle for Enemies of Rome called ROMA VICTA /Rome defeated/ - kinda from "barbaric" point of view) What about doing some Roman civil wars? Spartacus revolt, Brutus vs Antony (am I remembering right?) or Octavius vs Marc Antony? I'm not sure about the period your thinking about but you could do one style of armour and with a few minor changes have roman soldiers that could fight each other or join forces when you (re)release the foreign hordes. +One idea I've been kicking around for the past few years is to do a miniatures campaign based on AD 69, the Year of the Four Emperors. There were two battles of Cremona, the first one in April and the second in October. Many units fought in both battles, but the sides they were on had been shuffled as emperors came and went. Legions had marched in from both Germany and Judea. Some of the legionnaires from Germany had gone native, and were dressed in PLAID TROUSERS! The city of Rome kept sending units north to fight. At one time rough, tough gladiators were brigaded together with the fancy-boy, fortunate-sons of the Praetorian Guard. Units of marines were sent from Ravenna. Shortly: Romans vs Romans (with some Gladiators and barbaric reinforcements) ? What do you tell for dedicated FACTIONS sets - something I'm doing with 30 Year's War series (vide Pikemen, Musketeers etc.) Pikemen FACTIONS colour preview (I'll try to post something with Roman Legionnaires instead this one later): BTW this idea reminds me that this "trick" is used also in Rome Total War (part I, still don't get II as it seems to bugged at release) and it works well. So each Faction or grand family of Rome (Brutius, Caesars etc.) could be distinguished via different colour. And there is a lot "place" to colours: trousers, skirts, shields, banners, so figurines should be quite well recognizable/distinguish on a table; actually I think that thanks to big shields Roman legionnaires might be even better recognizable than pikemen.
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shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
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Post by shep on Sept 19, 2013 4:19:53 GMT -9
I'm still not sure how to tittle this series - however most probably I'll stay with @shep's (thanks again!) suggestion ROMA AETERNA(however there might be also separate tittle for Enemies of Rome called ROMA VICTA /Rome defeated/ - kinda from "barbaric" point of view) [/span] No trouble. For the enemies of Rome, you could use the term "Vae Victis!" which is a Latin idiom meaning "woe to the vanquished"... Yes, I know that there is a computer game and a comic series of the same title, but according to Titus Livius, "Vae Victis!" was exclaimed by Gaulish chief Brennus, when pressing gold from Rome after he and his man had sacked the urbs in the 4th century BC. As you can guess, no copyright law in the world can forbid you to use the proverb...
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Post by mesper on Sept 30, 2013 12:05:05 GMT -9
Hopefully will post some work-in-progress soon - project status is alive and kicking, so stay tuned!
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Post by mesper on Dec 5, 2013 13:34:32 GMT -9
Ave Caesar... soon (still under development)!
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Post by whiteknight06604 on Dec 6, 2013 10:38:41 GMT -9
I am really looking forward to these. Love all your figures but your ancients are my favorites so far.
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Post by mesper on Dec 14, 2013 15:39:46 GMT -9
I am really looking forward to these. Love all your figures but your ancients are my favorites so far. Thanks! BTW: Gladiators #1 are on their way... ...and there will be more!
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Post by WackyAnne on Dec 14, 2013 17:03:47 GMT -9
I love the cover! It's very strong, very bold, very effective. The background texture hints at textured stone like marble, but blood soaked and spattered... very appropriate for the arena. And the Colosseum in the background is subtle enough it doesn't add busy-ness. I know the figures will be excellent, but I think you also need to hear how well you've designed the package.
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Post by mesper on Jan 18, 2014 0:57:40 GMT -9
I love the cover! It's very strong, very bold, very effective. The background texture hints at textured stone like marble, but blood soaked and spattered... very appropriate for the arena. And the Colosseum in the background is subtle enough it doesn't add busy-ness. I know the figures will be excellent, but I think you also need to hear how well you've designed the package. Thanks! It's great to hear that someone appreciates things you do, then it inspires to work better.
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Post by mesper on Jan 18, 2014 1:18:10 GMT -9
Something new... Patricians Prom Party scene "Ladies, we are leaving..!" Frankly speaking I'm not convinced to this set... Would it be interesting or useful? There are mostly women and girls (ca 5-6 figurines + mods), then senators and equites (ca 6-7 figs.) and some servants/slaves. then some accessories like tables, chandeliers etc. "home thingies" - so it's not only big set but also definitely very specific one. (Then as a supplement to this set I have also some outdoor scenery, very easy and fast to build - vide previous EASY SCENERY sets like Sci-Fi Portals - still but IMHO quite useful and attractive) Anyway, maybe I should split this "Patricians" set and release for example all these ladies as a separate set, perhaps as PWYW (Pay What You Want)? Hmm... EDIT ------ Picture changed, now I think it seems more natural and better tells some story... Below - just for the record - the OLD version:
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Post by Parduz on Jan 18, 2014 2:01:39 GMT -9
You know my feelings: ENEMIES! I want someone to fight! I want the minis all red in .... paper blood
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Post by wyvern on Jan 18, 2014 5:45:08 GMT -9
Something new...Patricians Prom Party scene...Frankly speaking I'm not convinced to this set...Would it be interesting or useful? There are mostly women and girls (ca 5-6 figurines + mods), then senators and equites (ca 6-7 figs.) and some servants/slaves. then some accessories like tables, chandeliers etc. "home thingies" - so it's not only big set but also definitely very specific one. (Then as a supplement to this set I have also some outdoor scenery, very easy and fast to build - vide previous EASY SCENERY sets like Sci-Fi Portals - still but IMHO quite useful and attractive) Anyway, maybe I should split this "Patricians" set and release for example all these ladies as a separate set, perhaps as PWYW (Pay What You Want)? Speaking as primarily a model and diorama maker, I find all such non-combatant figures potentially useful, plus many create options for customizing in different ways as more active, unarmoured, player characters in games. Roman-style indoor and outdoor scenery would be very useful too. And hopefully a set of "reclining diners", as illustrated already with the grand lady. There seems to be a lot of medieval/pseudo-medieval and Egyptian-style paper scenery available, plus some Greek-style, but less so for the ancient Romans (or maybe I've just missed it...). My immediate feeling is it may be better to release this as just one set, because it seems if you'd want a typical mixture of male and female non-combatants, you'd have to buy the two "halves" of the set separately. Be nice to have some "civilians" for other ancient period regions too.
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Post by mesper on Jan 19, 2014 21:40:38 GMT -9
You know my feelings: ENEMIES! I want someone to fight! I want the minis all red in .... paper blood OH you must be very bloodthirsty one! But seriously - yes, I have plans for Rome Enemies sub-series. But these sets need more work (older figurines needs serious recoloring and re-texturing and in many cases brand new details, so will match Roman figurines) And as a programmer, you know that things could be done faster/easier when there is some workflow - you are using the same libraries, common/shared procedures, functions and objects, same data locations and working paths - pretty much the same with developing paper minis set: same united (type/scale/colours/textures etc.) objects like weapons, shields and other elements and accessories, then in general common textures and color styles for clothes, armour, then even file names and HDD resources are more or less defined and unified. Switching back and forth, jumping too much between too many projects could lead to a small disaster (at least in my case:). So I'd like firstly to finish couple of Roman oriented sets, then perhaps lay off from historical genre for a set or two (some fantasy?), and then only will switch to "Enemies". But just to clarify - here's what I'm planning: -Carthaginians (Hannibal and his troops, elephants plus with some African and Iberic mercenaries) -Gauls (Wercingetorix) -Britons -and of course Germans (various tribes?) -then probably Huns (Attila) Plus there should be also Egyptians (not exactly "enemies" but too important from historic point of view to skip) =>>But... there are already RELEASED sets you can use as encounters: -Persian infantry (I still need to add cavalry and finish chariots) -Greeks (Hoplites) -Macedonian infantry and cavalry (well, Alexander The Great period, but falangites took part in Kynoskefalai battle with Romans) ... My immediate feeling is it may be better to release this as just one set, because it seems if you'd want a typical mixture of male and female non-combatants, you'd have to buy the two "halves" of the set separately. Be nice to have some "civilians" for other ancient period regions too. Good point - I'll release male and female non-combatants. However perhaps will exclude armoured figurines (as officers?) which are in non-combat posing Not sure about other ancient period regions civilians though but for sure there will be some (priests, scribus, some peasants) in Ancient Egyptians set, then maybe some barbarian tribes women and children.
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Post by WackyAnne on Jan 19, 2014 21:48:21 GMT -9
I'm all for the civilians, particularly women and children, but men as well. My core focus, is as you well know by now, fantasy roleplaying, but the nice thing is that can incorporate any number of culture analogs at any time frame. For instance, Pathfinder will soon be rolling out an Egyptian-themed Adventure Path that I'm quite excited about. I love the look of the Roman women, only thing to improve it would be some Etruscans! They were sensible enough to have women take an equal role and status, in civilian life at least. And I like the revised picture, in the original they come off looking like they belong on an alternate universe version of Entourage
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Post by wyvern on Jan 23, 2014 6:57:33 GMT -9
Not sure about other ancient period regions civilians though but for sure there will be some (priests, scribus, some peasants) in Ancient Egyptians set, then maybe some barbarian tribes women and children. And some druids for the ancient Britons and Gauls? Worth remembering too that there were ancient Briton warrior women (most famously the Iceni leader of various alternate name spellings modernly, most recently preferred as Boudicca, but she wasn't the only one).
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Post by tomwh on Jan 16, 2016 12:08:27 GMT -9
Was the Republican and Imperial Legionnaires ever released? I have the other sets and I am wanting the core army to go with my cavalry and chariots.
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