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Post by wyvern on Oct 16, 2013 1:51:40 GMT -9
If you've not seen it already, I'd recommend downloading the currently free " Tile Maker 2.0" from Project Zero Games, though you will need at least Adobe Reader 9 or better and Flash Player 10 to use it. This seems to take things to a level beyond just using the Adobe layers option, since you can click and place selected objects anywhere on the dungeon tile, and for objects that have a specific facing, you can also rotate them once they're where you want them. Don't be fooled by this latter, or the comments on the One Book Shelf site - or even the blurb that comes in the PDF - because this is not just a simple "rotation" option, as if you keep tabbing with the spacebar, for many items, you suddenly discover there are other objects not shown in the "objects to place" illustrations on the tile page. Like the skeleton that becomes broken, or just a skull, the book that becomes several books, papers or a map, the campfire that converts to a wall torch, the one square pit which will convert up to a room-sized square spiral staircase through various other options, including spiked, the closed trapdoor that opens and then becomes a ladder, and so forth. You can even use the options for what seems like a one-square corridor to customize the shape of rooms - and there's already a lot of basic square-cornered room shapes available as standard. And when you click the "Print" button, everything except what's on the tile vanishes from the page, so you only print off (or save with something like the free Primo PDF program, which will save a PDF file when you tell it to print) what you need; no clutter to waste ink on! Yes it's dungeon tiles, and I'm sure the style won't suit everyone's taste, but there's a wonderful idea here that's worth exploring; and I can only hope and wonder more at what might be possible with this technology in the hands of some of the designers/manufacturers who post regularly here on the CWF!
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Post by WackyAnne on Oct 16, 2013 3:09:41 GMT -9
As I posted in your other mention of this (see below) they also have a web app, but I don't think it's quite as powerful. Certainly I hadn't discovered those tricks while playing with it, but I'll try it out later today. Thanks for bringing it up - I might have forgotten about it if it weren't for not only a reminder of its existence, but just how much depth there is too it. Not my favourite graphics, but excellent and easy customization should make prepping a map a lot smoother for the time-crunched (and others not so rushed). They also have a free web app that I've only just checked out @ projectzerogames.com. The forthcoming City Builder also looks interesting, not unlike the APG City Tiles I picked up, but with the customization of the Tile Maker software... Tile Maker 2.0
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Post by WaffleM on Oct 16, 2013 4:06:00 GMT -9
Does anyone know what program was used to create this? I'd love to try it out for my next generation of Hex Grid: Battle Tiles...
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Oct 16, 2013 4:29:50 GMT -9
Does anyone know what program was used to create this? I'd love to try it out for my next generation of Hex Grid: Battle Tiles... It sounds like it's a Flash application embedded inside a PDF. So, that'd mean something like FlashBuilder for building your flash app, and Acrobat for building a PDF that can embed the flash app. Setting up and printing images from a flash application such as this is pretty straight forward to do, as is generating bitmap images programatically, and apparently there's even open source actionscript libraries for writing pdf files, if you wanted to save off your intermediate work. The thought of embedding a flash app in a pdf file that can itself generate pdf files makes me laugh. I'm not entirely sure why you'd want to distribute the app via a PDF file. In for a penny of dead technology, in for a pound - why not package the flash app as an AIR application? I dunno. I'm an engineer, so maybe I'm overthinking things.
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Post by wyvern on Oct 17, 2013 2:59:19 GMT -9
The thought of embedding a flash app in a pdf file that can itself generate pdf files makes me laugh. I'm not entirely sure why you'd want to distribute the app via a PDF file. In for a penny of dead technology, in for a pound - why not package the flash app as an AIR application? I'd guess accessibility for the intended market. Virtually everything downloadable from One Book Shelf and other similar places comes as a PDF these days, albeit sometimes zipped and maybe packaged with other things. Personally, I prefer PDFs, mostly because I've been dealing with them for so long, and it keeps everything in one place. "App" always makes me think "mobile phone", but maybe that's just me showing my age...
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Post by bravesirkevin on Oct 17, 2013 3:06:04 GMT -9
I think the main motivation for using a PDF is to get the page size consistent. Regardless of what magnification you're viewing it at, or which machine you're using to view it, it will always print out and exactly the same size. You could do that without a PDF, but that's heading out of graphic design territory and straight into complex coding. It's rare to find someone that's highly competent in both fields.
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 17, 2013 3:42:34 GMT -9
Yep, I'm pretty comfortable downloading a pdf. If someone tries to sell me a new program, I always wonder what the learning curve will be. I know it is never as simple as advertised. This program isn't working for me despite downloading the latest flash player. :/
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Post by okumarts on Oct 17, 2013 6:53:53 GMT -9
Doesn't work for me either.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Oct 17, 2013 7:08:10 GMT -9
I was able to try it out. I will admit it might be convenient to embed a flash application in a PDF for local access rather than having to visit a website to do it - it's a convenience for distribution. The printing happens via the flash application in either case. But yeah - it's got the burden of being a flash application. Being stuck on a flash-based project right now, I can say that it's *possible* to write good flash apps, but since I run with a debug flash player, I get to see that most of what people develop is NOT robust software. Not that print-and-play stuff is enterprise critical software, but I'm comparing the stability and usability to plain old PDFs, so it's up against a fairly stable (if sometimes slow) medium.
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Post by wyvern on Oct 19, 2013 1:55:18 GMT -9
Sorry to learn a couple of you haven't been able to get the program to run. From the One Book Shelf reviews and discussions, I get the impression a few others have had difficulties too, though how much of that may be due to trying it with the wrong versions of Reader and Flash, or wrongly installed ones, is impossible to judge. Certainly I've found it's best to close down everything major on the PC before running Tile Maker, or it can be very slow and/or crash. Presumably the Flash Player needs access to a lot more RAM. If that doesn't help, and your programs are up to date, try the online version on the Project Zero Games website, since that gives free access to the same page as the PDF file, and again from the OBS comments, that seems to have solved the problems for some folks.
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 19, 2013 17:57:29 GMT -9
I just tried the online version. It does some neat stuff. I see myself roughing out some rooms with this tool and then importing into GIMP to add the final details. One thing, if I want a hall that is one square wide an nothing else on the tile, is that an option I'm missing or di I have to use gimp?
Edit: just noticed the white square. But you still end up with the black outline.
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Post by wyvern on Oct 20, 2013 1:13:21 GMT -9
One thing, if I want a hall that is one square wide an nothing else on the tile, is that an option I'm missing or di I have to use gimp? Edit: just noticed the white square. But you still end up with the black outline. Yes you can, but it's a bit of work to achieve, and the simplest option will leave the new corridor off-centred. Set up the two-square width hallway as the base. Then lift and place the white square to start hiding the side of the corridor you don't want. Next, spacebar-tab through to the white square option you need (the one that gives you a black wall line on the correct side of the square only; if you choose to hide the lowest half of the corridor, it's the last option you come to, for instance). It's a little fiddly to place the squares precisely enough, so you may need to persevere a bit, as there's no "snap-to" option to give you an automatic alignment, and you can't simply erase a misplaced item without resetting the entire tile, but it will accomplish what you need - eventually!
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 20, 2013 10:40:45 GMT -9
I found you can, at least on the online version, go back and adjust something even after you have added something new. Removing whole sections is one of the things that is going to be easier to do in GIMP.
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Post by projectzerogames on Oct 24, 2013 9:49:26 GMT -9
Hey everyone. Glad to see people are using the Tile Maker software. I'll try to answer some of the questions people have been asking. The Tile Maker 2.0 is a Flash application, and it's actually designed to be used on the web. However, as Wyvern stated, I embedded it into a pdf so that more people could download it and try it. It may not be the best way to deliver a Flash product, but people are used to dealing with pdf's, and since it's free I didn't think people would mind much.
I haven't figured out the reason why some people are having issues with the pdf version yet. I tried it out on a number of systems and it always worked. The only thing I ran into when I first tested it was that there was a play button on the bottom of the page you had to click to get it started. Other than that my guess would be there might be a setting that's disabled in Acrobat Reader. I'll look and see if I can find a solution to that. Also, detailed feedback about what issues people are having would be helpful!
Also, mproteau is correct about putting a Flash application into a pdf that produces a pdf as being kind of funny. I'm still researching how to generate an image file rather than a pdf. I think a jpeg or png would be much more functional, but since I'm not a programming wiz it takes me awhile to figure this stuff out. My ideal platform for this software would be html 5. I want it to work seamlessly across all devices. Unfortunately I'm more of an artist and designer than programmer, so that may not happen.
Anyway, please keep up the conversation! Everyone's feedback is greatly appreciated as I work on the City Builder program.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Oct 24, 2013 10:10:34 GMT -9
Also, mproteau is correct about putting a Flash application into a pdf that produces a pdf as being kind of funny. I'm still researching how to generate an image file rather than a pdf. I think a jpeg or png would be much more functional, but since I'm not a programming wiz it takes me awhile to figure this stuff out. My ideal platform for this software would be html 5. I want it to work seamlessly across all devices. Unfortunately I'm more of an artist and designer than programmer, so that may not happen. It is with great sadness that I have to admit I have some experience with building flash (Flex 3/Actionscript 3) applications. Doing things like sending stuff to the printer or writing stuff to a bitmap to save is pretty straight-forward, and if there's anything I can help with, drop me a PM.
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Post by projectzerogames on Oct 24, 2013 10:25:39 GMT -9
Thanks mproteau! It is with even greater sadness that I must admit I only know AS2 at this point. I've started experimenting with AS3, but just gave up since HTML 5 will probably replace everything in a few years. I tried exporting the Tile Maker as an AIR app but I couldn't figure out how to get it work within a webpage. I found a cool program that converts SWF's to HTML 5, but it only supports files smaller than 1 GB.
Anyway, I'm just trying to find the correct scripting to place on the Print button that will export the last last frame on the timeline to a jpeg/png file. Currently the button tells the movie to go to last frame where the area around the tile is masked off and to also print.
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 24, 2013 14:53:27 GMT -9
I had never noticed the little play button. I hauled Tilemaker out of my delete bin but still couldn't get anywhere. I get a yellow notice at the top that says to download the latest version of flash player, but I've done that. Twice.
Anyway, I don't mind using the online version.
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Post by wyvern on Oct 25, 2013 0:17:28 GMT -9
Welcome aboard Projectzerogames! Great to have your direct input here.
Cowboyleland: I had problems downloading the latest Flash Player using that alert bar too. However, when my security software threw up a message box about needing to download the latest version "for security purposes", it downloaded straight away and without problems. Might be worth trying an alternative route to download it if not already, on this basis. He said hopefully...
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Post by WackyAnne on Oct 25, 2013 2:44:50 GMT -9
Yes, welcome! I had fun for a bit with the Tile Maker when it first came out, but have been so busy with my own projects, I wasn't able to take it very far. Looking forward to doing so after Halloween's over. Very busy time with two young boys, three dress-up opportunities, and hopefully a game or two... I do like the graphics, seems like they'd mesh well with the Old School dungeon tiles (both the true originals, and retro works like Eric Chaussin's), a nice balance between minimalism and hyperdetail. I like a wide variety of options, for different adventure "atmospheres". I'm looking forward to your city tiles as well, particularly if I could customize the size and shape to fit underneath Dave Graffam, etc. buildings, and then reveal the tiles for playable interiors. My favourite part about the dungeon set the dead bodies and skeletons - a definite gap in the paper modeling spectrum (save the One Monk Grave Robbers set). Don't suppose you'd like to make those available as paper minis?
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 25, 2013 4:06:24 GMT -9
wyvern: I downloaded directly from the Adobe website. I believe an ancient forward looking curse was once cast on my family regarding technology and it has finally landed on me. If I meet the ancestor in the afterworld who offended the magician responsible I will spit in his beer.
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Post by projectzerogames on Nov 3, 2013 11:54:25 GMT -9
Thanks for all the feedback everyone! I still haven't been able to figure out the specific reason why the pdf application isn't running correctly. However, I would say at this point it's incompatibility issues with various software. How many of you having problems are running windows 8? I've tested this on windows 7 and xp, but not windows 8. WackyAnne - would you like to see minis that you just lay down?
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