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Post by Nemo on Nov 11, 2013 3:29:04 GMT -9
Here is a project of mine: drawing a modular dungeon for my games, with 1 inch squares. These are a couple of examples (there is no black outline in the final work). Corridor Sewers Right now I am working on "tokens" depicting props (as libraries, stairs, pile of weapons, tables, tombs, traps and what not) to fill empty rooms, but I am also developing a multilayered document (60 layers as of now) to rapidly create rooms and print them as I need them. Any comment or suggestion would be much appreciated
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Post by wyvern on Nov 11, 2013 6:08:22 GMT -9
Do we get to play with the 60-layer document at some stage too?
I don't see a whole lot to comment on that might need tweaking though. Maybe a little more texture to the base "dirt" layer under the flagstones? But I'm not sure that'd be helpful, as it could draw the eye away from the more interesting items on the higher layers.
Looking very closely at the red "magic circle", there seems a slight edge effect where that object and its background flagstones meets the "dirt" layer, giving a small impression that the dirt layer there is a little higher than the normal one. This really needs hunting for to spot, however!
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Nov 11, 2013 6:35:20 GMT -9
When you say "60-layer document" do you mean a PDF file with that many layers?!? I must be doing something wrong, because I have a really beefy machine in all respects, and PDFs with more than a small handful of layers is really unsatisfying to work with.
That said, these pics look really great! At some point, I might find myself collecting some 2d tiles to supplement the 3d stuff I usually use. I'm not sure how they'd fit into my role playing... I'm used to not having potential props permanently fixed to the floor. If my kids want to knock over a table or roll a barrel or something, it's hard to let that happen when the picture is stuck on the floor.
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Post by WackyAnne on Nov 11, 2013 8:05:43 GMT -9
These are gorgeous! Very atmospheric, and I love the degree of detail. While I agree with mproteau (Paper Realms) about liking movable props, I appreciate the fixed variety as well, and your work is an excellent exemplar. In particular, I very much like the subtle way you handle the grid in the sewer tile. You might be interested in The Lost and the Damned forum; they have a sub-forum dedicated to Dungeon Tiles. Billiam Babble, of Inked Adventures fame, hangs out there, and it's with their help that he developed his line. They also showcase a lot of the old Dungeon Floorplans which inpsired Billiam Babble and Eric Chaussin's Old School Dungeons. EDIT: I second mproteau's concerns about 60 layer PDFs. Anything over 10 or so layers is taxing on my system and on my patience. And on my MacBook, I don't have Acrobat professional to be able to print selected layers to pdf, so I have no way to save a specific tile for later. I've not found another Mac-compatible program that will do it either.
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Post by Nemo on Nov 11, 2013 9:29:25 GMT -9
Looking very closely at the red "magic circle", there seems a slight edge effect where that object and its background flagstones meets the "dirt" layer, giving a small impression that the dirt layer there is a little higher than the normal one. This really needs hunting for to spot, however! And yet, you are absolutely right. I'll try using transparencies to avoid that effect. Thanks Thanks to mproteau (Paper Realms) and WackyAnne, too (the grid in the sewer tile is an idea coming from Parduz, as many others in my works ). I understand your concerns about the multi-layered PDF, but let's say it is just a tool that is not really necessary. In fact, my main project is creating a tiles set that includes all props as printable "tokens" (I really don't have a better word, sorry ) that you can put on the tiles. So one can move them, remove them and roll them too These are some samples.
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Post by WackyAnne on Nov 11, 2013 20:31:56 GMT -9
Lovely Those tokens are a perfect solution. I hope my comment about high levels of layers didn't come across sounding harsh, I was just feeling a little frustrated with something else, and it may have carried over. Actually, my laptop is kind of used to being overtaxed... my husband can't believe the number of tabs I have open when browsing
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Post by Nemo on Nov 12, 2013 1:54:31 GMT -9
I hope my comment about high levels of layers didn't come across sounding harsh Believe me: not at all. And even if it did, doesn't mean that what you said could be less true
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Nov 12, 2013 9:54:01 GMT -9
SO looking forward to these! Is there a release date window?
onemonkeybeau
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Post by Nemo on Nov 12, 2013 23:10:27 GMT -9
Thanks onemonkeybeau I hope to release it during the first days of December. Meanwhile, these are two images I will use to make standees for doors (closed and open).
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Post by wyvern on Nov 13, 2013 6:28:58 GMT -9
More lovely stuff; the eyes have it! And following from an earlier discussion elsewhere on the Forum, might we see some versions of the spider webs as tokens and/or free-standing miniatures?
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Nov 13, 2013 6:42:56 GMT -9
That door is great!
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Post by Nemo on Nov 13, 2013 9:56:16 GMT -9
And following from an earlier discussion elsewhere on the Forum, might we see some versions of the spider webs as tokens and/or free-standing miniatures? Sooner or later I will need to draw a Spider Queen Lair or something, so I think it's safe to answer "definitely" I understand that you may need something in particular, so if you can be more specific maybe I could draw something for you. As I said, it's not unlikely that it could prove useful to me, too
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Nov 13, 2013 12:01:53 GMT -9
Nemo,
Definitely some tiles of pits and traps, maybe piles of bones, treasure, etc... I like the idea of having tiles for stairs, plies of stones, pillars (broken and complete... standing and knocked down). Maybe some blood (and water for that matter) tiles that we can print on transparencies and lay down when needed.
Thanks!
onemonkeybeau
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Post by Nemo on Nov 14, 2013 0:07:03 GMT -9
Pits, piles of bones and treasure chests are currently in the making, but I really didn't think about elements to be printed on transparencies. Thanks to you Anyway, this is a sample dungeon built with approx. half of the contents of the tiles set.
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Post by wyvern on Nov 14, 2013 6:27:35 GMT -9
Spider webs: When I started the topic on this, I wanted to find what, if anything, was already available in papercraft, and if so what uses it might be put to for 2.5D to 3D paper modelling in dioramas. I didn't (still don't) have any strong feelings about precisely what might be most useful, as I like to keep things flexible. Having to work within someone else's basic design can create fresh ideas more interesting than what I'd originally thought of. What I'd like to be able to do though is have spider webs that could be used as free-standing objects, a little like paper minis, but instead of a base, use the web's attachment lines to fit to various upright and/or horizontal features - so wall and floor, ceiling and wall, sarcophagus and statue, posts on a staircase, as a few random-ish examples. An alternative would be webs that could be used to add to existing artwork as modifications, maybe using GIMP, and importing both items to be combined that way. The big difficulty of course is getting white web lines, because they must be printed onto a darker background. On transparencies just showing the webs - which in many respects would be the ideal - the web lines need to be any colour except white! A non-papercraft option of course is to scribe the web lines into a sheet of clear plastic. I like the delicate tracery for the webs on your doorframes, and the fact the webs aren't perfect (which is one of the problems with computerized web designs generally - too mathematically precise, unlike real spider webs), so more like those, including in different forms - maybe even a giant one, like that at the top of the stairs in the famous Bela Lugosi "Dracula" movie from 1931 - would be good. Like the idea of a Spider Queen's Lair too! Transparencies: Yes please! Maybe some glass doors to fit into doorframes. Windows too (don't forget coloured glass)? And a scrying mirror with the view through it, or a doorway to another plane, aside from various liquids and liquid spills. Spilt liquids would work really well this way. Sample Dungeon Layout: Love the variant stone floor textures; they look great together. The Throne Room carpet's superb! Will the finished set have variant colour schemes for such floor coverings? One thing though; the floor texture needs to be changeable with all the objects too - the glowing magical symbol in the topmost "blue" room and the fallen pillar in the adjoining "brown" room to its lower right have the "wrong" floor colouring/texture at present. Have you thought about doing some matching walls as well as the doorways? Or should we wait for the Walls Expansion Pack?
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Nov 14, 2013 8:51:05 GMT -9
Those glowing symbols would be a great thing to put on transparencies too... also, I wonder if spider webs would work as a transparency? Hmmmm...
And yes! The layout is great!
Personally, I'd like to have completely empty rooms and all props be on separate tiles. This way we can create endless varieties and even use some 3D props if we have them.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Nov 14, 2013 8:59:41 GMT -9
Thinking more about transparencies... I wonder how things like the pile of weapons and broken pillars above (basically any prop that has a lot of 'whitespace' or areas that may show 'through' the tile resulting in the antithetical anomaly Wyvern was mentioning) would look on a transparency?
I have not tried this method with tiles yet but think it may work theoretically.
My only concern is that the tile below will be seen in the actual prop, albeit diffused... also a bright or lightly colored prop, such as the weapons, may become darker when placed on a dark tile.
I don't know though. May be worth a test?
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 14, 2013 9:11:12 GMT -9
Just got a great idea for spider webs: I'll build what I need and leave it in my basement for a week Alternatively, I don't own a robo cutter but I understand they do perforations and work on materials other than paper. Would cob web pattern perforation create an etched effect? Also I like separate tiles for props as well. I actually started a library of top down props on a transparent back ground in gimp so I could easily paste them into the custom rooms I would build, but I didn't grow the library fast enough to meet my immediate needs so I went back to quick sketches on squared paper. Maybe I'll get back to it some day. I was using the GIMP sheer tool on Eddnic's props and it was working pretty well if anyone else wants to give it a try.
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Post by onemonkeybeau on Nov 14, 2013 9:15:34 GMT -9
And last thought on transparencies (for a while at least): I think printing these out on matte transparency could potentially cut down on the "wow, that's a shiny treasure chest" comments onemonkeybeau
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Post by Nemo on Nov 15, 2013 1:01:32 GMT -9
An alternative would be webs that could be used to add to existing artwork as modifications, maybe using GIMP, and importing both items to be combined that way. The big difficulty of course is getting white web lines, because they must be printed onto a darker background. On transparencies just showing the webs - which in many respects would be the ideal - the web lines need to be any colour except white! You should try to use some shadow filter on the webs. The shadow has to be very "soft", so it doesn't become an outline or a contour, but it has to be enough to make the web visible without darkening the background. It works for me I LOVE (really, they're great) your ideas in the application of transparencies and one day I will definitely try them out. Still, they require a lot of experimenting, since I never tried out something like that (and I hope this answers onemonkeybeau, too). Yep, I'm still working on colors to make the use of tokens not too contrasting on the tile in the background, but I think the result is going to be quite satisfying. The Throne Room carpet's superb! Will the finished set have variant colour schemes for such floor coverings? Have you thought about doing some matching walls as well as the doorways? Or should we wait for the Walls Expansion Pack? - Not really. But I plan to make other sets oriented in directions hinted in the Basic Set: I'd like to make something about castle interiors (for example) and not just abandoned or ruined dungeons. I guess tapestries will be there in a certain amount - Nope. I tried playing with walls in the past, but they usually had to be removed or the figures couldn't fit on the tiles most of the time. They can be very scenographic, but as of now I'm not really interested. Personally, I'd like to have completely empty rooms and all props be on separate tiles. This way we can create endless varieties and even use some 3D props if we have them. I understand completely In the end, there will be "thematic" rooms as well as empty rooms to fill with props Speaking of "thematic" rooms:
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Post by wyvern on Nov 15, 2013 2:28:23 GMT -9
Those glowing symbols would be a great thing to put on transparencies too... Yes indeed! ... also, I wonder if spider webs would work as a transparency? Hmmmm... I tried this with some basic black-line web designs, and yes they do. In fact if anything, they look more "real" than those printed on paper, because if you look at actual webs, they're transparent anyway, so what you're seeing is just how the light catches the silk's surface. Such transparent prints also work for things like graticules on targeting systems (e.g. on a spaceship screen or 3D navigation "tank"), which is where I first saw it used - such as in WWG's " First Light: Retrofit" expansion pack. Just got a great idea for spider webs: I'll build what I need and leave it in my basement for a week Yep, that's fine, but there's no guarantee natural webs will be where you want them on the finished model, plus they're not so robust as paper or transparent films Transparencies: Haven't managed to find any matt printable transparencies in the local shops still; should probably try online, I guess. I've tinkered around with printable transparencies for some time, and while the gloss finish can be a problem, a greater one is the printable surface collects dust very readily (also finger marks), and this can't be removed. The only satisfactory solution I've found is to place another transparent sheet (non-printable) over this side once the ink's cured sufficiently, and again I've had no luck so far sourcing matt sheets of clear plasticard. So I've tended to use it only where the gloss surface works - hence my earlier "glass and liquid" comments. You should try to use some shadow filter on the webs. The shadow has to be very "soft", so it doesn't become an outline or a contour, but it has to be enough to make the web visible without darkening the background. I'll have to try this. My experience with using GIMP is less than four hours so far though, as I downloaded it less than two weeks ago... Floorplans: Look forward to more carpets in time. I like the idea of "comfort furniture" to make places look "lived-in". And I like the idea of unfurnished rooms that can have any desired props (2D tokens, 3D items) added too. Sorry about the "no walls", though I appreciate your resoning Nemo. As primarily a modeller these days, I'm often looking for floors and walls that can be matched together for a scene, and my imagination ran on to matching wall textures and designs like your floors. Spider Queen's lair looking great! Need to finish those giant spider minis I printed out months ago after all now
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Post by WackyAnne on Nov 15, 2013 4:34:32 GMT -9
Your work is so beautifully finished that I really want to get some quality photo paper to do it justice. In fact, I think your tiles would make for an excellent, professionally (ie big company) published game board. Did you ever check out the Lost and the Damned forum? I suggested that because I think it began as a HeroQuest group, or at least the Dungeon Tiles section did. They've shared many old and new tile designs over there, and I know you'd find more appreciators over there, too. Not that I want you to leave us here! I'm so glad you are sharing with us as you develop and refine these...
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Post by Nemo on Nov 15, 2013 4:51:49 GMT -9
Sorry about the "no walls", though I appreciate your resoning Nemo. As primarily a modeller these days, I'm often looking for floors and walls that can be matched together for a scene, and my imagination ran on to matching wall textures and designs like your floors. Yep, I do understand and I cannot agree more: I saw some very beautiful (if not astounding) cardboard dungeons with walls. Unluckily I'm more a practical person (I hated when HeroQuest figures couldn't stay in the same little room, even if there were no walls ) Did you ever check out the Lost and the Damned forum? Well, thanks WackyAnne, I really think you are too much kind: every time I look at one of these tiles, it always pops up in my eyes something I don't like or that I feel I could do better Yes, I posted something on The Lost and the Damned, but I haven't yet received the kind (and quantity) of inputs I get here. You guys are really something and I appreciate that
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Post by Nemo on Nov 16, 2013 2:51:29 GMT -9
This one is clearly inspired by the gaol tile for Warhammer Quest.
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Post by wyvern on Nov 16, 2013 4:00:22 GMT -9
Lost & The Damned has seemed fairly quiet the times I've checked it too, at least for the Dungeon Tiles. It can't help anyone to post stuff and then get no feedback, though that argument applies to other (non-papercraft) Forums as well. There's often little logic apparent in why some Forums are more active.
Gaol Cell: Will there be standup barred gaol cell doors too? If not, it might be useful to add a hinge line to the floorplan door, just to show which way it opens.
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Post by Nemo on Nov 17, 2013 7:31:41 GMT -9
Gaol Cell: Will there be standup barred gaol cell doors too? If not, it might be useful to add a hinge line to the floorplan door, just to show which way it opens. Well, thanks, I didn't really thought of the door (talking about feedbacks ). So while still deciding how (and if) I should make a stundup, I made some scratches on the stone floor hinting to where the door is and how it opens. I also modified the bowl a bit (thanks to feedbacks coming from elsewhere).
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Post by wyvern on Nov 18, 2013 2:55:25 GMT -9
As an empty bowl, I thought the original was fine, but the added depth with the new version looks good too. Like the floor scrapes. Perhaps move the bones and fur a little though, since they'd have been pushed aside towards the right-hand wall by the door. My earlier thought was the door would open outwards, because of its width!
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Post by mahotsukai on Nov 18, 2013 5:06:33 GMT -9
An outward opening door would be too dangerous to the guards, inward opening is much more controllable. If those are 5 foot squares wouldn't 1 square width be better to depict the door? Finally the scratches as read indicate that the door pushes into the room rather than swings in an arc around the corner hinge, they need to describe a circular route. Other than that with regard to all the work on this thread WOW!!! Keep up the good work. Looking again if they are 5 foot squares then that is a 2.5 foot bowl quite a bit for a prisoner. So I'm thinking they are not 5 foot, and am now confused.
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Post by Nemo on Nov 18, 2013 5:57:48 GMT -9
You are both right mahotsukai : don't be confused, your assumption on scale is right. I really need to pay more attention on scale and proportions Thanks again, I will correct the tile as soon as I can.
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Post by Nemo on Nov 21, 2013 0:15:36 GMT -9
So I edited the gaol cell following your observations: I narrowed the door to one square (hence I thought there wasn't any need to move the bones and fur) and I scaled down the bowl. I hope it's better, now And here is a little preview of the contents of the set. Obviously single pages won't show red lines (they are here just for clarity). I tried to pack as much tiles as possible in the same page, in order to avoid waste of paper and at the same time trying to make the document very easy to cut. [EDIT] Lair of the Spider Queen is 7x6 squares, not 6x6 squares.
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