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Post by andrax2000 on Mar 20, 2016 5:39:43 GMT -9
I'm going to necro this thread hard. Are people still interested in this, or was anything ever worked out and solidified? I'd be interested in helping draft standards for 28mm terrain. I agree with most of the proposals in the OP (Last updated: 11-03-2014), and would also include the 150+ dpi proposal that is discussed in the thread.
The part I might suggest changing is:
To something like:
To ensure that the page will work well whether the end user prints on US Letter sized paper or A4, and to allow at least a 10mm (0.4") margin around all sides on both paper sizes, use the following rules. • The page size should be US Letter (11" x 8.25") if you are working in imperial units or A4 (297 x 210 mm) if you are working in metric. • The art area should be no more than 10.2" x 7.45" or 259 x 190 mm. This includes the cutter registration marks. The art area should centered on the page. • Non-essential graphics (such as logos, copyright notices, etc.) may extend out of the art area with the expectation that they may be cropped out when printing. If doing so, these graphics must also be on a hide-able layer, so that they can be turned off to not interfere with cutting registration.
I initially liked the way you had it, because it's simpler to read. However, in my personal experience, most people will pick a standard page size when they start Illustrator, Photoshop, etc. Since the art area is more important than the paper size, I think my proposal may be a little easier to comply with, even if it is harder to read. A lot of existing big name stuff (DG, FDG, WWG) already prints on both paper sizes, and wording it this way means they already comply.
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Post by bluecloud2k2 on Mar 20, 2016 9:04:18 GMT -9
The biggest problem I've noticed is not all printers are created equal. For example, I recently discovered my MG2922 has a manditory 1" margin.
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 20, 2016 9:24:48 GMT -9
That offends me as both a tree hugger and a proudly Scots descended cheapskate!
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Post by bluecloud2k2 on Mar 21, 2016 4:01:06 GMT -9
I know, right?
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 21, 2016 6:22:32 GMT -9
The biggest problem I've noticed is not all printers are created equal. For example, I recently discovered my MG2922 has a manditory 1" margin. And even though Brother printers aren't perfect, at least they don't do something stupid like that
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Post by oldschooldm on Mar 21, 2016 11:54:07 GMT -9
The biggest problem I've noticed is not all printers are created equal. For example, I recently discovered my MG2922 has a manditory 1" margin. You mean the 1" at the bottom of the page, right? Most printers can print much closer to the top and sides than that. Setting margins to .5" all around and 1" at the base has worked for every single printer I've ever owned, no matter how cheap. :-) I don't expect OTHERS to have to meet that standard - but it's what I have to deal with for my desk printer. I created a work-around I use a lot: cardboard-warriors.proboards.com/thread/6019/hack-extending-print-cheap-printers - its just irritating if I don't have two sheets to print.
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Post by babybear on Jun 19, 2016 21:34:35 GMT -9
From what Im understanding, the 28Terrain project has fallen to the wayside but I do have a question.... Originally I was just wanting to make some paper terrain for my hubby to use with a board game gift I had gotten him. While I drew out my own templates I based them on the ones from this project. I never figured anyone would want to pay for my work, but a few have expressed interest in doing so... hey if can make a few coins why not.. Since I don't want to step on anyone's toes (or get strapped over an attorney's desk) should I be giving credit on the pages? If so, to whom?
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Post by bravesirkevin on Jun 20, 2016 0:31:54 GMT -9
From what Im understanding, the 28Terrain project has fallen to the wayside but I do have a question.... Originally I was just wanting to make some paper terrain for my hubby to use with a board game gift I had gotten him. While I drew out my own templates I based them on the ones from this project. I never figured anyone would want to pay for my work, but a few have expressed interest in doing so... hey if can make a few coins why not.. Since I don't want to step on anyone's toes (or get strapped over an attorney's desk) should I be giving credit on the pages? If so, to whom? I think the templates were the work of mproteau (Paper Realms)
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Jun 20, 2016 1:35:48 GMT -9
Only thing I've contributed are cutfiles reg mark layers. The tile templates and what not weren't my thing.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Jun 20, 2016 3:59:14 GMT -9
Now that I'm not typing on a phone, I'll be a little less terse... I didn't contribute much to the 28Terrain initiative, though I thought it sounded good in principle... I'm more of a TLX guy, and have started making my own templates for THAT style of tile/wall connection system. I have been offering up PNG files to assist in adding registration marks for Silhouette-brand machines, and I certainly don't need/want any credit given for those. I freely encourage folks to use them as 'safe' registration marks, and if anyone wants advice on how to make cutfiles (or just be cutfile friendly) PLEASE don't hesitate to ask.
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Post by bravesirkevin on Jun 20, 2016 4:19:55 GMT -9
Unless babybear is referring to the templates created by OpenGround. Her stuff is on a Creative Commons Attribution licence, so basically the only requirement for using it in any capacity is to credit her for the templates and provide a link back to her.
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Post by andrax2000 on Jun 20, 2016 6:57:19 GMT -9
If enough people are interested in reviving 28Terrain and/or OpenGround, I would be willing to do the legwork to get it set up and formalized. And by enough people, I mean like 3 other people would be enough. For 28Terrain I would set up a github site similar to github.com/php-fig/fig-standards but for terrain. That way people will have a formal way to propose standards and a definitive source outside the forum for the most recent draft. It's pretty much first-draft ready with just a bit of rewriting to make the language more formal already, so this would be not a huge deal for me. For OpenGround, I would fork what has already been done, also to github. Open ground is both a standard and a set of official templates, so it's more complex than 28Terrain. Alisa doesn't seem very interested in developing it anymore, but I see potential. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, and as far as I can tell, I'm the only CW poster that has posted images of a OG build. There are some major issues that needed fixed with the system to make that build, most notably that the hourglass tabs were almost impossible to cut out with scissors because of the template. My build didn't even contain walls, so I really would need to try a wall build as well and see where it stands. I could go on for pages about what work needs done for OG to make it really great. I'm a new guy on these forums, but I'm motivated for both of these projects. From a consumer standpoint 28Terrain would be great if it was adopted wide enough that it became a searchable keyword or filter on sites like RPGNow. That would really help find compatible terrain. From a designer standpoint, I think having compatibility guidelines can only help everyone. It eliminates a lot of extra research and setup work and frees up time to make art.
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Post by babybear on Jun 20, 2016 17:27:58 GMT -9
Unless babybear is referring to the templates created by OpenGround. Her stuff is on a Creative Commons Attribution licence, so basically the only requirement for using it in any capacity is to credit her for the templates and provide a link back to her. Yes those are the ones Im speaking of. As said I drew my own templates, but was definitely inspired 100% by them for the post and walls. Im not an artist by any means, so did not want to seem like was "stealing" from those that are. Only reason I even tried my hand at making any terrain was because living in a very poor country even what seems to most to be cheap to buy online, its a different story for us. Saving up for the board game was hard enough.
While on the subject.... I was looking at tab connectors to hold the tiles together and really like them. Currently am just using toothpicks to do so because hubby thought the tab system might be protected and couldn't be replicated. Is that the case?
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Post by bravesirkevin on Jun 21, 2016 4:31:51 GMT -9
[/p] While on the subject.... I was looking at tab connectors to hold the tiles together and really like them. Currently am just using toothpicks to do so because hubby thought the tab system might be protected and couldn't be replicated. Is that the case?
[/quote] Methods can't be copyrighted, and can only be protected by a patent. I'm pretty sure no one doing this sort of stuff has applied for any patents and that sort of joining method is quite widely used so I'm sure you can safely do so without running afoul of any laws. The truth is most people just use whatever joining method they feel comfortable with anyway, and a lot of people just go with the toothpicks even when you do include a fancy connection system.
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Post by babybear on Jun 21, 2016 16:26:42 GMT -9
Thanks Wonderfully friendly and helpful community you all have built here! If only you guys could pass on your artistic skill... hehe
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Post by Vermin King on Jun 22, 2016 7:11:05 GMT -9
Artistic skill is just something you have to work on. Some folks do everything on the computer. Others do things by hand and then scan and edit on the computer.
I struggle, but keep trying. I wish I had the real life issues in good order so that I could spend more time on developing my skills.
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Post by andrax2000 on Jun 24, 2016 6:08:47 GMT -9
While on the subject.... I was looking at tab connectors to hold the tiles together and really like them. Currently am just using toothpicks to do so because hubby thought the tab system might be protected and couldn't be replicated. Is that the case? You are fine using the Open Ground bowtie connectors. She used CC-BY so that people could do that. If you share your templates, just make sure to give her attribution, and link to opengroundterrain.tumblr.com/. Some caveats on the bowtie connectors: 1. The template she provides for the bowties, while having no waste, is also almost impossible to cut out with scissors. I ended up creating a more wasteful template so that I could cut easier. 2. The connectors provide good horizontal connections, but no support against bending vertically at the joints. If you want to put tiles on top of walls, they may bow at the connections. 3. Using foam a bit thicker than the makes it easier to remove the bowties. The foam also grips the table, which is an added bonus. However, it means you must use half-tabs in all the outer edges or else your tiles will be on a small slope. 4. They add an additional material to the build. You already need paper and foamcore; the bowties add craft foam as another need. Overall, I like the foam bow-ties, but I think there may be room for improvement.
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Post by bastelritter on Oct 16, 2016 8:05:48 GMT -9
... Design and Printing Requirements:• The kit must include the 28Terrain end-user description text, which can be found at (a link to be provided later)... Hello, does such thing exist now?
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Post by bravesirkevin on Oct 16, 2016 8:10:03 GMT -9
Hello, does such thing exist now? No. We just landed up abandoning the idea because coming to a consensus proved too difficult.
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Post by bastelritter on Oct 16, 2016 10:54:39 GMT -9
Ah, ok. I like this idea. ;-)
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