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Post by dramascape on May 14, 2014 23:47:06 GMT -9
This site is distributing many of our products, you may find yours here too.
Hidden link as it may be abused, publishers please contact me for link.
Here is a list of who's products are on the site.
Age of Volondor
Arid Hills:
AVP movie models:
Battle Lands:
Battle System:
Battle Tech:
Brave Adventures:
Crypts:
Darklight:
Daves Games:
DM Materials
Dramascape:
E Adventures:
E&I:
Ebbles:
Fat Dragon Games:
Fantasy Cutouts:
FantasyScape:
Finger and Toe:
Fold & Go:
Future Armada
Game Mastery:
Genet:
Halo:
Heroic Maps:
Heroquest:
Homeworld:
Imperial Guard:
Inked Adventures:
JTP:
Kev's Lounge:
Lord Zsezse Works:
LOTR:
Mage Knight:
Master Tiles:
MicroTactix:
One Monk:
Paper Places:
Permes:
Rezolution:
Skeleton Key Games:
Space Hulk:
Star Wars:
Starcraft:
Starship Game:
Star Ship Troopers:
Steve Jackson Games:
Steve Wachs:
Stoetzels Models:
Stone Edges:
The Forge:
Three Fourteen:
Tommy Gun:
TSR:
Warhammer:
World Works Games:
WWG2:
0one Games:
All the files are hosted on Mediafire
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Post by Vermin King on May 15, 2014 4:47:14 GMT -9
If its the Chinese one, there isn't much that can be done other than contact mediafire and have the material removed. I don't know if you are familiar with Chris Gutzmer of ecardmodels.com, but he has been very good about getting a lot of pirated models removed from various sites. You can either contact him from his store site or at papermodelers.com. He can at least point you in the right direction
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Post by Parduz on May 15, 2014 4:53:32 GMT -9
Was'nt that site already pointed out by someone some months ago?
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Post by dramascape on May 15, 2014 5:34:36 GMT -9
One of the members here has just uploaded the link to this thread on their site.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 1:03:37 GMT -9
This is the response to my post by the guy who was uploading our products
I'd like to start out by saying that I did not consider this project to be piracy, as nothing was stolen. We encouraged the purchase of products, not any form of theft. That said, Y'know, you're entirely right. We may have lost sight of our initial goal of bringing access to those looking to enter and grow within the community, advertise what was possible, teach others that they needn't spend hundreds on durable ceramic or plastic terrain, and COULD print perfectly useful terrain themselves. We did not thoroughly enough encourage others to provide support to the artists who made these works.
I have been dealing with the loss of my mother and it's kept me away from this place for quite some time in many ways. I understand your appeal, and I respect it. It's changed my consideration of whats gone on here, and I have taken steps to end it and this monolog should serve as a reminder to the cohorts here that they, too, need to go back and think about their level of contribution, and benefit, and support those who made this possible. But, that doesn't change the fact that none of us view this as theft or piracy. We have paid, and it is no different than printing off the sheets and mailing them to each other, which would be entirely legal (except it'd waste money on postage and such that we would rather spend on supporting these companies). This tiny community of people (last I knew, a dozen) are purchasing products and rights to print your art and while none of us could afford to purchase all of these alone, we did purchase far more patterns than the sum of us would have on our own. Partially from exposure, partially from frenzy and comradery. But, by making it available to each other and encouraging each other to purchase more, I know that I have spent more on these files than I had ever expected to. So, yes. You're right, we each should purchase them and not resort to a thread like this. But, if it wasn't for this thread, I'd have never purchased ANY of the dramascape or other company's products, especially after my first purchase more than $20 resulted in total disappointment.
I hope that along with me, my comrades have taken the opportunity to explore your (and other) families of products and have taken it upon themselves to Kickstarter and/or purchase other selections from your inventory. I know that I have spent all my excess income supporting this community rather than "cheating" it. Even though that contribution may be small, I did it genuinely wishing to help support the artist(s) involved. I, naturally, assume that EVERYONE here has done the same. And based on the emails and such that I get in private, I can clearly see that many in fact have done exactly that.
I have completely removed all product I have access to, yours and others. I will deactivate the accounts and remove myself from the threads. I apologize for any undue stress this has caused. I sincerely apologize, and am ashamed to admit that I may not have had much money to contribute but I did help facilitate the organization of this. Again, as I had stated above, I recognize that without this thread, I and several others may have never purchased these products and that I have consistently felt that those who were contributing did so not to cheat the companies, but rather help the community as a whole.
I hope that you (and the other artists) recognize that the array of products and services you offer are a valuable asset to the community as a whole. We appreciate the hard work you folks do for us, but not everyone can afford any form of reasonable variety. This thread was meant to help those individuals, and encourage others to support (through purchases) your efforts.
Since it has been brought to our attention that our small band has become too large and is deemed a detriment to your endeavors, again, I have voluntarily and swiftly ended the problem. If there is anything else I can do to continue to encourage the development of the gaming community, contribute to the longevity of gamers and our small niche of the economy, advertise and engage new players to explore options that will make their experience more enjoyable and bring more players to see the amazing opportunity in paper craft over bulky and expensive hobby materials, and encourage others to support you (and other company's) products and services, I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 2:37:29 GMT -9
And I can confirm, all the links have now been deleted.
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Post by Parduz on May 16, 2014 3:14:34 GMT -9
Lurking at the discussion there...... these ppl are not really willing to discuss, they just stand on his wrong points. My opinion is that you should save yourself free time and let them alone.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 3:56:52 GMT -9
Yeh I have given up, they seem desperate to justify what they are doing, But at least all the links are gone, for now.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 4:28:27 GMT -9
Someone just posted an extra bit on the thread pretending to be me, although I agree with what it says, I wasn't going to say any more hehe.
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Post by Vermin King on May 16, 2014 5:40:12 GMT -9
It is unfortunate that they don't see that what they are doing is piracy. It would be even more unfortunate if they just don't care that they are stealing
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Post by glennwilliams on May 16, 2014 6:10:38 GMT -9
Easy "first cut" question to determine theft: did the original creator get his share of the sale? The guy couldn't get that simple concept right.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 6:32:13 GMT -9
Its really simple, if they think that sharing products on the web helps the industry, then why didn't they ask the owners of the products for permission, because they know what the answer will be.
NO
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Post by squirmydad on May 16, 2014 6:36:31 GMT -9
Well done Dramascape.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 16, 2014 7:11:19 GMT -9
Woo hoo! I did it! I was going to vent about how I hate people who pirate this stuff, but I successfully did NOT post it! I totally avoided getting sucked into making long drawn-out arguments to counter such selfish statements as "none of us could afford to purchase all of these alone". I guess when I was younger I would have started ranting about how you don't just deserve stuff because you see it and want it, and you don't just steal it because you can't afford it right now. I would have tried to preach to deaf ears the notion that you either go without or you sacrifice to get what you want. But, not the new me. The new me will pass this thread by, thank you very much.
How silly would I look, anyway, taking the bait and explaining that this industry is not made of fat cats screwing the general public by overpricing their work, and even on their meager profits they manage to put most stuff up for sale, let people pay what they want, or even give stuff away for free as a means of letting people experience the product without a huge investment. Silly, indeed.
I'm not going to touch a thread like this with a 10' pole.
(By the way... Is that why D&D characters used to always carry 10' poles - to carry out touchy diplomatic exchanges at proper distance? I guess it doesn't sound the same - "I'm not gonna touch that with a 50' rope"...)
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 7:18:18 GMT -9
Hehe. I almost wish I had stayed out of it, but due to the way mediafire was trying to make it hard to get things removed, I felt it was the only way it would happen.
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Post by dungeonmistress on May 16, 2014 7:33:22 GMT -9
You know, there are so many beautiful and tempting pieces out there, I spend a lot of time drooling over them (testament to this are my extraordinarily long wish lists). And although I have picked up quite a few really nice pieces that were offered for free, I still feel guilty that I haven't had any money to spend on them.
I will have a somewhat small (large to me) budget I can spend on some choice pieces this summer (I only wish that I could support all my favorite artist in some significant way), it will be a one time deal, as I will not get another large chunk of money like this again.
However, I will endeavor to save a few bucks here and there to make the occasional purchase, because I fully believe in doing what I can to support you guys, though; sadly for the most part, all I can do is word of mouth and showing off your beautiful work by displaying it in my house and at my local library.
All this is to say that even if you are really broke, like me (SSI is my only income and I support both myself and my husband on it), you can still save a buck or two here and there and buy the occasional small piece. For the larger more expensive pieces, keep your wishlists up to date and direct your friends and family to them when a gift giving occasion comes up, like a birthday, Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc.
There is always a way. You just have to have a little patience (to say nothing of respect for the artists), though; I know that's hard in this day and age where instant gratification is expected.
As I've come to know and admire all the fine artists here on this forum, I have become especially sensitive the subject of piracy. Perhaps it would be a good thing to invite these folks to join this forum so they, too, may come to understand the importance of community support?
Getting down off my soapbox now.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 7:51:13 GMT -9
They are already members of this forum as what we write here is being copied over there
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Post by dungeonmistress on May 16, 2014 7:58:32 GMT -9
Really? And they still don't get it? Wow.
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Post by oldschooldm on May 16, 2014 8:05:11 GMT -9
Don't steal from the other kids, kids. It's not nice.
Golden rule applies.
(For those who are copying what we say over there.)
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Post by dungeonmistress on May 16, 2014 8:12:26 GMT -9
And the Golden Rule reads: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! Not: Do unto others before they do unto you. Or: He who has the gold, rules.
Just to set that straight.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 13:03:04 GMT -9
This is the info about who owns 7chan
Registrant Name:Ian Carpenter c/o Dynadot Privacy Registrant Organization: Registrant Street: PO Box 701 Registrant City:San Mateo Registrant State/Province:CA Registrant Postal Code:94401 Registrant Country:US Registrant Phone:+1.6505854708
Unfortunately Dynadot Privacy is a way of hiding your identity.
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Post by dramascape on May 16, 2014 14:56:58 GMT -9
Its a shame really that these people hide away and never talk to the people they are hurting, they wont come on here and explain what they are doing as they know what they are doing is wrong.
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Post by Parduz on May 16, 2014 15:30:28 GMT -9
Well, the site have all sort of pirated stuffs. Paperthing producers aparts, there's basically every RPG and wargame available, even D&D Next stuffs. I think that making Savage Worlds, Warmachine, Pathfinder, D&D producers (just to mention a few) aware of what's available there could make some difference ( dramascape, no offense ). To the ppl from that site reading here: it could be a nice experiment. Perhaps the big companies are less blind than us and will see you right in "promoting" stuffs and help the market by making commercial stuffs available.
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Post by lucce on May 22, 2014 5:01:03 GMT -9
Made an account and thread purely to reply to this... Undescribable pool of human whiz that you "artists" are, or have become.
I have singlehandedly spent over 120$ on several of the above linked "works" (lets not kid ourselves, it's paper), I have played, I have shared, I have interested other people into buying your doody. Last time ever.
You lot are not much different from the likes of WOTC and GW and I shall make it my very own little howdying crusade to tell every.single.person.i.ever.meet (and I attend around 3 conventions yearly around the EU and US) to NEVER buy "YOUR" papercraft doody, specifically if there's a Dramascape label on it. I can not believe the entitlement you lot feel, going so far as to call yourself artists, when it's the community which is sharing your "works" that is effectively keeping you on breathing support. Without said pirates no one would even know you exist. Like literally. Speaking of breathing support, Dramascape I hope you croak soon, you WERE MADE BY THESE PEOPLE, not so much by yourself, I hope you enjoy getting completely ignored.
You were made by the people turning away from angelgotries like GW and DND and now you dare whiz on them? What a joke you are, you just lost yourself at the very least 20 customers, for being an entitled "artist" baby, I don't need this doody I can find sheeple like you everywhere I howdying turn.
You are selling paper. Not even that, you're selling howdying prints, made in programs which most of you haven't bought. You don't even supply the paper, nor the ink, nor the work that goes into actually putting crap together.
Piracy? You lot agreeing with the OP good samaritan are a bunch of butthurt children, have you ever considered that, should you art actually become art, people would be more inclined to actually pay for it? Piracy over people not really being all up for paying 3 dollars FOR PRINTS.
But I digress, the people who always hide and never talk to the people they are hurting are the very same people who, in the beginning, gave you enough of a push to crawl out of the doody and just enough wind so that you might soar high enough, to now break your neck from the fall.
Biggest group of self entitled good samaritans I've ever seen, leave my hobby you're disgracing it.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 22, 2014 5:42:10 GMT -9
Well, I guess for starters, uh... welcome to the forum?
What I don't get is this - if we strip away all the juvenile vulgarity in your rant and try to pin down an actual talking point, you seem to be saying that you feel like the products that people are trying to sell aren't worth money - you go out of your way to belittle the work of other people I guess as a way of supporting this sentiment - and yet you admit that you and others share and use these products. If they are that terrible - if they are so devoid of merit in all respects as you so strenuously imply - then why are you using them at all? Why are you wasting your time?
Can you take a deep breath and try a conversation? Or if that's the best level of discourse you can muster, can you kindly leave and let someone else try?
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Post by dungeonmistress on May 22, 2014 6:17:49 GMT -9
lucce - How I would hate to live in your world, for it seems to be very limited. I am not sure you can understand this, and I know I may be wasting my time on this (and you), so I will give it just this one try. What is art? It is an idea or vision that starts in a persons mind and moves to the heart. From there it fuels the desire or passion to express that idea - in paper, clay, wood, stone, light, sound, and yes, even pixels. It is the talented person who can create something that stirs an emotion from others. That is what art does: it causes people to emote, to experience a moment of raw emotion. Most artists, if you think about it don't use very expensive materials to make their creations, they can't afford to, but that's what makes them great because they can take things that most would consider worthless (bits of trash, cheap paint, or a free program) and through hard work, long nights and lots of experimentation, turn them into something wonderful or make it perform things that would, without their talent, be impossible. It is not hard to create something beautiful and shiny from beautiful and shiny objects, but try that with something that was never beautiful or shiny. Trying to make free programs like paint or gimp (not to put either of these down) do some of the stuff I've seen done here takes hard work, talent and patience. Something, that perhaps you're not acquainted with. It is that time, effort, and talent that is being disrespected by people like you and your group. Can you do what Dramascape does? Or Permes? Nemo? Grey Matter Games? If not then you , if you want to have items like these arts create, then you must depend on arts like them to create these things for you. And the time effort and talent that goes into such creation deserves proper recompense. If you or your friends don't want to provide that recompense, it is you and the artists who should leave the hobby, for clearly, you don't appreciate art. I know what it feels like to want something and not have the money to pay for it. But if you want it bad enough, you don't steal it, you save your money, a penny here, a penny there. Sure that takes time, and you have to exercise patience - something that is not fashionable in this age of instant gratification, but you do tend to appreciate more the things you've had to struggle to get. I am sorry that you decided to expose your ignorance in such a crude manner. Did you really think that your hate filled tirade would make any of us run and hide? Did you think that throwing expletives around would hurt any of us? I feel sorry for you, living in such an UN-illuminated world, with such a small mind. I hope someday you are able to break out of it and see this great wide world in all its glory. Until then, why don't you take some time to think on these things. Maybe go out to a museum and think about how it would feel to put your own time, sweat and tears into something you feel is wonderful only to have be disrespected by being stolen or pirated?
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Post by oldschooldm on May 22, 2014 6:25:50 GMT -9
Your diatribe doesn't say much of substance, but this... Without said pirates no one would even know you exist. Like literally. ...this verifiable statement is completely, factually, untrue. Those who's models I buy/build/create-cutfiles/use/post-play-pix for were the result of GOOGLE SEARCH - the number one source of information about this hobby. That's where most discovery comes from - Paizo/RPGNow/DriveThruRPG/etc. search, forum/blog posts, google search, etc. Ask ANY designer here where their traffic and/or sales comes from. I call bull$#... Stating that everyone starts a pirate and magically transforms into a paying customer is not supported by any data I've ever seen. (And would be contrary to your main subjective argument that this stuff is valueless.) Think what you want about the 'value' of the designers work, but don't make up verifiable facts to support your bias - it weakens your argument to the point of dismissal. Hey! Here's an idea - if you run the site, you may have some data: Post the google search terms frequency for your website with the pirated models, I'll bet you see "Dave Graffam Models Free" "Fat Dragon Games Free" pretty high up the list - proving that people already KNOW the names of the products they are searching for FREE versions of. Of course, that would disprove your statement about not knowing the designers.
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Post by Parduz on May 22, 2014 6:26:46 GMT -9
LOL Nice try, mproteau (Paper Realms) (and the others who replied while i was writing), but i think that lucce can't even find any difference between combing and masturbate, let alone have a conversation
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Post by lucce on May 22, 2014 6:28:26 GMT -9
Okay, here's a sentiment of an actual conversation.
I am a store owner of used and new hobby products which I have been running with my blood and credit for the past 25 years. It has been my work in these past 25 years to show, interest, impress and share (you can dissect the word in any manner you wish) the love I've been feeling for RPGs for well over 30 years. I have gone over material upon material, stacks of papers and PDFs where actual creators have sent me their work to comment and in the long run, sell to my customers.
I am appalled by the attitude posed above, it sickens me to my very core. Be this the best level of discourse I can muster or not, it is completely besides the point as english is not my primary language.
I have come here as an actual customer, retailer, reseller, organizer of weekly events (PF, DnD, DA, MDA - all of these are played with using plastic miniatures (which I have twidlyloads to sell) and I have been actively pushing the papercraft models onto my new players, as they can get into it - otherwise no one (take it from the horse's mouth) NO ONE WOULD BE PLAYING WITH ME AND YOU AND THE UPCOMING COMMUNITY) and one of the biggest propagators of paperworks (due to me actually working with GW and being in contact with the WOTC sales dept once a week where I lose my mind every single time), to let you all know, that what you are doing is not only wrong, but is destroying the very last FRAGMENTS of what is essentially a very kind community, mostly lacking money.
I have been lurking these forums for a year, I have bought over 30 PDfs and I have shared them with my players (as in, they get printouts, they cut it out and make models which they can play with and take home, if they can do some "reverse engineering" (leave the semantics you monkeys - not my mother language) and get the printouts then thats not my problem, more power to them), I literally dry heaved while reading this topic. This is my first and last ever thread, just so you lot know, that the people you were arguing with (the "pirates") on wherever forum it was (and who actually made way more valid points than all of the posters here combined) were just a part of your community, but that they are not the only ones and that there are also 40+ aged people who would like at this moment, nothing more than to blast you off to a different galaxy for being such disgraces to the whole of the papercraft community.
I leave this place and your works, I will continue to support and share the love for papercraft, but will make sure to never again order any of the Dramascape products, nor reccomend them to anyone, while looking at everyone else's "piracy policies".
This has been my elderly rant, you all should be ashamed of yourselves. 30 years ago people coming in and out of conventions and stores wanted nothing more then to see the happiness on mine and others' faces when they let us copy their awesome dungeon designs, and we did the same for them.
EDIT: Couldn't read all your replies while writing. While I do acknowledge that my first post was rather hateful, this is as much a manner of my survival as a seller of your "works" as it is of yours. In any case, this thread and the replies posted after, even by mods with 1000+ posts, is reason enough to keep away from this cesspool, and will be notifying every seller, retailer and player in my network and area.
Good luck with your works and lives.
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Post by dungeonmistress on May 22, 2014 6:58:12 GMT -9
I must say that I am astounded!
First: I was not referring to your English, first language or not. It was to your need to express yourself with so much profanity that showed your lack.
Second: You assume that most of the people here are youngsters. well, I myself am in my late fifties and most of the folks here are of the same generation. So, please don't think your so wise just because you have a few years on you.
And third: You say that you are a store owner? Then I would think that you would understand theft.
But just maybe this needs to be explained to you. When you buy and then print out for yourself, a paper-craft product, that's fine. But, when you print out say 10 more and give them out, or worse yet, sell them to your customers - THAT'S PIRACY AND THAT'S ILLEGAL!
It is just as though someone were to walk into your store and pick up 11 copies of the same book, for instance a monster manual, pay for one and then stuff the other ten into a knapsack and walk out with out paying for them, and then sell those books to his friends! You have lost those ten sales and your investment in the books. That's theft! The only difference is that in the first instance you have stolen Intellectual Property, no less real than the books stolen by the fictional customer.
Lastly: By your own admission, sir, you are a thief. Plain and simple. I, for one, will have no further dealings with you - a self-professed thief who thinks he's entitled simply because he can.
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