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Post by pavaro on Sept 30, 2015 6:43:31 GMT -9
I would like to know your opinion about the sides of figurines. What do you think about figurines with one side and two sides?
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Sept 30, 2015 7:27:56 GMT -9
Are you asking if figures should have a distinct front and back? That question has been asked a lot, and the general opinion is that they should have a distinct front and back.
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Post by eran on Sept 30, 2015 7:41:17 GMT -9
He might also be asking about 'front facing' versus 'side facing', but I'm afraid I'm also a bit unclear.
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Post by pavaro on Sept 30, 2015 7:47:47 GMT -9
Are you asking if figures should have a distinct front and back? That question has been asked a lot, and the general opinion is that they should have a distinct front and back. Sorry for my unclear question. Yes, so what I meant. I wonder about the making figurines out of one side.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Sept 30, 2015 7:53:04 GMT -9
He might also be asking about 'front facing' versus 'side facing', but I'm afraid I'm also a bit unclear. Aah. That's a good interpretation - never would have thought of that! For something like that, it's not my favorite, but if the figure does it well, I'm certainly not opposed to it. Perhaps the figures I appreciate in that style have a position that would otherwise demand a lot of forced perspective that wouldn't work well in a front-facing figure.
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Post by Rhannon on Sept 30, 2015 7:54:12 GMT -9
I would like to know your opinion about the sides of figurines. What do you think about figurines with one side and two sides? hi PAV, you are the author, you decide. About sides, about style ... If you ask me what are my preferences I reply again (you've already asked this before ) two sides. This is for me an essential element for commercial products. I don't buy ( some exceptions ) paper minis without two sides. If they are free I like everything. Ciao.
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Post by aaron on Sept 30, 2015 16:33:25 GMT -9
well, as I have said before, I don't really do the whole RPG thing, (not that I wouldn't I just don't have any friends who are into it) I do however, do a lot of Tabletop War games and in TTW games facing is a huge part of the tactics. so if you don't have a back to the model then it becomes impossible to determine model facing and the game is a wash. Fortunately I have the ability to take even free models I like and give the a back so it's ok for me but I have to have models with an A and B side.
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Post by Cardstock Dane on Sept 30, 2015 16:55:29 GMT -9
Definitely front and back. In my opinion, the "Paper Mini Value Equation" is like this: A-shape standee < tri-fold standee < mini with fronts on boths sides < minis with a front and a blank back < minis with fronts and backs. I rarely use anything but the two latter, and I much prefer them with fronts and backs. I make most of my minis myself, but I do buy some once in a while, and I would never consider buying anything that didn't have fronts and backs. But yeah, free stuff is always nice.
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Post by pavaro on Sept 30, 2015 20:04:32 GMT -9
I would like create for example big squad of one type of formation army. While drawing side backs it takes a long time for one person. Hence the attempt to mitigate their difficulties. In favor quantity figures.
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Post by hackbarth on Oct 1, 2015 3:40:10 GMT -9
For me front and back views are what defines a paper miniature, if it doesn't have them, it's just an illustration.
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Post by pavaro on Oct 1, 2015 5:37:28 GMT -9
For me front and back views are what defines a paper miniature, if it doesn't have them, it's just an illustration. That's curious definition.
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Post by aaron on Oct 1, 2015 9:06:38 GMT -9
For me front and back views are what defines a paper miniature, if it doesn't have them, it's just an illustration. That's curious definition. i'm kind of there with hackbarth if it doesn't have a back then it's just an illustration. If I am only creating fronts then I don't have to worry about positioning or complexity, I don't care about foreshortening or coloring. it's just an illustration. If I am making it to have a back then I have to pay attention to lots of different factors and yes it is more work. It sounds to me like you're saying you don't want to put the effort into making a back for your models and you want us to agree with you. Sorry can't do it. I say if it's just for you do what ever you want. if it's for sale or something or your going to present to the community then backs are a must. After you do it for a while like anything else it gets easier. I would say that it's a lot of work for not a lot of pay out. making paper models is something you do because you love doing it not because you want to get rich.
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Post by pavaro on Oct 1, 2015 10:27:25 GMT -9
At the moment I do not intend to sell their models. Too much expense and formality. I feel I am better do fronts than back... Back always seems worse and unattractive. I know it's a matter of practice...
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Post by wyvern on Oct 2, 2015 4:53:52 GMT -9
I agree with hackbarth. Front + back = paper mini. Front OR back view only = picture. So for me mini backs are ESSENTIAL. You're right though pavaro, backs do need more time and effort. That's why so many of us will pay for such minis! Plus shadow backs or a mirrored front view as the back I can already do myself on the computer. For example, with software like ProFantasy's "Character Artist", I can create a front view for any character or monster I like, customised in whatever way I choose, then tell it to set it up as a mini, and it automatically adds a mirrored shadow back if I want it. If they ever work out a way of doing the backs as easily, mini designers could be in trouble!
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Post by paperpusher on Oct 2, 2015 6:17:01 GMT -9
Personally I like fronts and backs but this is my opinion. There are plenty of sellers out there that do mirrored fronts or silhouettes. I have no idea what their sales are like but they do exist. I think it is safe to say that if you feel happy about that style of mini their is probably others that do as well. To each their own.
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Post by pavaro on Oct 2, 2015 22:47:31 GMT -9
I would like do front and back because only front is strange and as you say it is a picture. I have in plan for free sharing my models but I'm afraid that not everyone respects my work...however it would sound.
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Post by migibb on Oct 2, 2015 23:39:50 GMT -9
pavaro - I think you worry too much I am sure your work will get plenty of respect, and that your harshest critic is in fact yourself.... I love your pieces. Just wish I could get to print off, make up and use more of them......
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Post by Cardstock Dane on Oct 3, 2015 0:12:52 GMT -9
I think that's a very elitarian definition, and not very inclusive. To me, a mini is a mini is a mini, it's a piece used on a game board or tabletop gaming surface, and differs from a standee through its silhouette shape. While I much prefer minis with backs, the backs are not what defines the mini to me - that's the shape.
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Post by Rhannon on Oct 3, 2015 2:11:02 GMT -9
I would like do front and back because only front is strange and as you say it is a picture. I have in plan for free sharing my models but I'm afraid that not everyone respects my work...however it would sound. You're wrong a lot my friend. I ( and I suppose also many other people ) really like your works. I have your first paper minis ( WW1 French and German, fantasy ...) and I really love them. Also I love very much all your previews ( photos ) that you've shared over time. But you never shared them. even a sample file. But ... you've removed all downloads from your site. Even the first paper minis (they were already finished, I suppose ) I think. There is a problem Pavaro. Obviously this is not a criticism. I'm not an author, an artist, I have no drawing and technical skills, I can't but above I never want to criticize anyone. Sometimes it's hard to express myself in a language that is not mine. I'm sorry. So this is just my subjective opinion. Nothing more. I think there is a problem. I think there is a regret. And finally there are answers to questions. Problem: You ask too much. It 'a very good thing to ask if you need to learn. But I'm afraid that maybe you try to figure out what other people like. This is fine to a certain point. Then it's more important what you like it. You are the artist. What you are doing is to first of all to please you. Your spontaneous expression of your art is your signature style. What customizes and defines how original your works. This is always better than a copy of other styles imho. Do you prefer a one-sided figure? One side figure is right. Do You prefer a certain type of drawing ? That's the right one. ... A sadness ( for me at least ): after a hundred questions, two hundred answers and thousand words other enthusiasts like you don't have your paper minis ( and this is the greatest loss imho ), with two sides, one side only, smaller, larger ... answers: when a person asks specific questions about preferences. Even the answers, if they are honest, concern preferences. It is not an offense to answer that is preferred a figure with two sides. This is not a negative judgment about the one-side figures. And even about the quality of the work and its authors. It 'a preference. I certainly prefer figures with two sides.Almost certainly I would not buy one-side figures ( but I myself exceptions with patreons. No purchases but they are for me a spending commitment ). But I'm not saying that Pavaro's works are ugly or other things. I'm just saying what I prefer. But as I said before I'm not the author. In the end what is important is what Pavaro prefer. In the end I prefer much more Pavaro's figures ( though I regret don't have these figures. As a shared for free or even sold ) rather than many commercial products by producers that believe that this forum is only an advertising page of their ( poor, for me) products. Ciao
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Post by pavaro on Oct 3, 2015 3:37:19 GMT -9
I thank you very much to all of you for sharing your opinion. I stop set strict conditions for my minis. Recently I create according to my thoughts. I hope that come to better. Regarding respects my work. I mean about situation where my works are available on another page without any indication to the author or me (I do not want to indicate the page.). This is sad.
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Post by aaron on Oct 3, 2015 4:19:57 GMT -9
I just make whatever minis I feel like at the time. I used to try and hold myself to themes, and follow trends and worry about piracy (respect: call it what you want) but now I don't care. like Rhannon said do what seems right to you, if you make minis you like then even if everyone else hates them at least you like them and that's really all that matters. I have found it's a mixed bag. there are people who love my minis and my art style, there are people who think it's complete crap and everything in between. I have had people tell me to "stop polluting the internet with that garbage" which started a 4 page flame war .... I still have it pinned to my wall!! I haven't had that much attention in a long time LOL !! there are even people who won't use my minis because they don't like me personally. I get it, I can be annoying from time to time .... most times if you ask my wife LOL But all that doesn't matter. I make minis because I love doing it. Not because I'm trying to make other people happy. If I can make other people happy along the way great! if not ...'meh oh well. I don't stop making Minis because I'm afraid of piracy or people stealing my work, Heck I give most of my stuff away anyhow. Piracy is just another form of advertisement when it's free LOL pavaro needs to stop worrying about what others are thinking or doing and pavaro needs to just do what makes him happy. The biggest pay out you will get from making paper models is the joy you get from the process. so Like Nike and shia labeouf say , Just do it.
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Post by wyvern on Oct 3, 2015 5:48:16 GMT -9
Rhannon and aaron have it right, I think, pavaro. You can ask us as many questions as you wish, and we'll be happy to give you our opinions. But in the end, you are the artist of your work, so you must follow your heart and design what YOU wish to.
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Post by pavaro on Oct 3, 2015 6:28:06 GMT -9
You're all right, but not quite what I mean. I'm not worried about the opinion of others, but that my sets will be misused. As I wrote above.
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Post by oldschooldm on Oct 3, 2015 7:34:29 GMT -9
I'm not worried about the opinion of others, but that my sets will be misused. Please try to learn to let go of this fear. You have no control over how others will use your sets. Please try to find peace and joy in the fact that your sets are desired, (purchased), and used at all. I'm sure that madarchitect had no idea that his Codex Manesse figures would be combined with a church design by mauther and end up winning a prize in a contest (for neither of them got a direct reward) - Someone else could combine them in a political piece with Donald Trump, and someone else could twist them into something else that he would find even more unpleasant. But consider this - madarchitect took someone else's ancient artwork and used it to make paper figures. I'm sure the artist(s) who created the Codex Manesse would have thought of it as a holy/sacred/deeply personal work - and could say that he copied/pirated/appropriated/misused/disrespected it! Many artists fear losing control of their work on the internet. You really only have two choices: Never share, or embrace the chaos and find satisfaction in the knowledge that your work seen/appreciated/loved/used/abused by others. www.salon.com/2014/05/23/how_disney_learned_to_stop_worrying_and_love_copyright_infringement/Keep sharing!
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Post by wyvern on Oct 4, 2015 9:53:14 GMT -9
And even the Disney link address/page title is an adaptation of the subtitle to Stanley Kubrick's 1964 movie "Dr. Strangelove Or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb", a subtitle phrase which itself keeps getting reused and reworked over and over!
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