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Post by squirmydad on Aug 21, 2016 18:51:39 GMT -9
For the past three years I've attended a local anime convention as a vendor and every year someone looks at my booth and says, "That's not anime." Which is true, but irrelevant. One of the other things that people viewing my booth say, "These would be great if I didn't have to cut them out." Pre-cuts are something that people have asked me about for years and I still don't know that's it's a viable option for internet mail-order sales, but it does give me something more to sell at the convention. I also like attractive packaging for games and miniatures so I made another style of easy fold box for display and purchase;  I'm calling these "company boxes" as they contain 20 infantry of the same type (Elf swords in this pic) plus a champion, standard bearer, musician, three random banners and five 25mmx 125mm foamcore bases with a slot cut down the middle. Plus a little assembly instruction sheet that I haven't finished yet (fold, glue, edge, insert).  My current thought is that the convention price would be between $8 and $10 per box. I'm leaning more towards $8 as this feels more like advertising than anything else. Am I wrong and I've under-priced this product? |
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Post by lightning on Aug 21, 2016 20:26:35 GMT -9
If you give them the option of the uncut at a cheaper price AND then the pre-cut at - say $10 - on the same sales spot, that usually gives you the advantage of pointing out the cost (time, material) of pre cutting. So the client will feel he has a choice and then usually admit to his own lazyness and take the higher price for the pre-cut. Also on a convention, you can usually talk and haggle and get a feel what the real price should be and adjust rather quickly.
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Post by oldschooldm on Aug 21, 2016 22:56:58 GMT -9
IMO: A random-pull box plastic painted figures is $16.00US for 4 figures, or $4 each and you don't don't even know what you're getting! $8 is like 0.33/figure (including base!) That is insanely low. Paper, Ink, Knife, Edging/Cutting Labor (including a storage box and stands.) Should be charging $16 and pointing out the differences. Sure, charge $8 to sell the printed sheets - they cut, edge and glue. There is precedent pasiphilo sells 6 figures with plastic stands for $10. www.etsy.com/ca/listing/205352531/player-character-rogues-28mm-roleYou're selling 4x as many (though with paper stands.) |
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Post by Cardstock Dane on Aug 22, 2016 3:38:59 GMT -9
Just out of curiosity... how much does the print shop charge for making the prints, and how much for the pre-cutting job?
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Post by Rhannon on Aug 22, 2016 4:01:02 GMT -9
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Post by Vermin King on Aug 22, 2016 4:05:41 GMT -9
If you are looking at these as 'marketing', I would clearly mark the box at $12.00 and have a Convention Special sign showing the reduced price, whatever that may be ( I was thinking $9.99 is high enough to cover costs hopefully, but still low enough to entice buyers). I would also include two individual bases.
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Post by squirmydad on Aug 22, 2016 8:46:53 GMT -9
$10 "Convention Exclusive" seems right.
They will only be pre-printed and pre-cut, not assembled or edged. I will also be selling pre-printed pages as I've done for the past years and have a display of finished pieces/units so people can see what the finished product can look like.
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Post by arcticdragongames on Aug 22, 2016 11:09:04 GMT -9
If you are looking at these as 'marketing', I would clearly mark the box at $12.00 and have a Convention Special sign showing the reduced price, whatever that may be ( I was thinking $9.99 is high enough to cover costs hopefully, but still low enough to entice buyers). I would also include two individual bases. Makes real good sense to me too. |
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Post by migibb on Aug 22, 2016 14:50:17 GMT -9
Cut a deal to sell okumarts stuff there too, and then no one can complain it's "not anime".... (Sorry, I have nothing useful to add on the pricing front....) |
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Post by Christopher Roe on Aug 22, 2016 18:49:04 GMT -9
The mass-production viability depends on the equipment, mostly. The last time I experimented with precuts in 2009, I found that consumer-grade printers and hobby-level cutters weren't really up to the job where sustained production was concerned. Plenty fine for short-run prototypes or convention products, however.
Pricing is a toughie. Best way to stave off sticker shock is to put things in perspective--the time savings of a peel-and-build precut versus the hours you'd invest in a hand-cut download, and maybe it's printed on awesome paper on an awesome printer that blows away what 98% of people have in their home, so on and so forth. If I were to do that for money myself, I'd look at prepainted plastic character packs or plastic squad boxes, then figure out if I can turn a profit at 50% of what those cost, then adjust the numbers up/down based on demand and whatnot.
If I like the art style and know that the print/cut quality was better than I could produce at home, my personal sweet spot would be roughly a couple bucks per head, maybe more in exceptional cases.
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Post by oldschooldm on Aug 22, 2016 22:32:43 GMT -9
Might want to ask jjensen about this - I think it was he who attempted to make a business from selling pre-cut Dave's models. I know I bought a few, when they were available. In the end it didn't work out - I know that much. |
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shep
Eternal Member
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Post by shep on Aug 23, 2016 1:25:40 GMT -9
I'd totally buy a pack of "battle-ready" minis, especially if I was on a convention where I could play a game or two but did not know in advance and therefor did not bring my minis. In this case, a unit box for 9.99 would be a great deal, especially if it was supposed to be 14.99 outside of the convention.
However, from another perspective, I think pre-printed pre-cut minis have the huge disadvantage of me not being able to produce more by just printing them. The BIG advantage of buying papercraft minis online is getting the file to print more and more and more without any extra cost. Also, I can easily customize the minis to my needs. All I need is a graphics program and some time...
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Post by squirmydad on Aug 23, 2016 14:56:46 GMT -9
However, from another perspective, I think pre-printed pre-cut minis have the huge disadvantage of me not being able to produce more by just printing them. The BIG advantage of buying papercraft minis online is getting the file to print more and more and more without any extra cost. Also, I can easily customize the minis to my needs. All I need is a graphics program and some time... Not a bargain for you then, I'm trying to catch a different market; the ones that don't want to spend time on downloading, printing (is this the right paper?), cutting (wow this is time consuming), glueing, edging, and building bases. It's a daunting time investment for newcomers to the hobby. The Company in a box idea is to cut down on some of those time investments buy having a unit already printed and cut with foamcore strip bases provided so all they really have to do is fold, glue and insert. I'm thinking of giving away a free glue stick with each purchase as it looks like I can get a big bucket of them cheaply. As for time and monetary costs on my side; when I started doing this commercially I decided that it couldn't cost me money. I don't think, based on the time I have available for this business, that it will ever make me fabulously wealthy. It does turn a margin of profit though, and I'm okay with that margin as the business does pay for itself and takes care of all of my hosting fees for this forum and for the onemonk.com site. One of the main reasons that I'm doing the boxed armies is that it's fun. I think they look cool presented this way. I've said it elsewhere, notably in my game box thread, that print-n-play products often suffer from presentation. I think it'd be a great fun to sell boxed pre-cut-n-printed versions of "Katana Schoolgirls" and some of the Brave Adventures miniature kits.  In the long run it wouldn't be cost effective for me to offer this as a staple product as I just don't have the time to support it. For the upcoming conventions I do have time to put together a fun display, with an emphasis on the fun part. |
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Post by okumarts on Aug 23, 2016 19:21:32 GMT -9
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shep
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Post by shep on Aug 23, 2016 22:51:24 GMT -9
Not a bargain for you then, I'm trying to catch a different market; the ones that don't want to spend time on downloading, printing (is this the right paper?), cutting (wow this is time consuming), glueing, edging, and building bases. It's a daunting time investment for newcomers to the hobby. The Company in a box idea is to cut down on some of those time investments buy having a unit already printed and cut with foamcore strip bases provided so all they really have to do is fold, glue and insert. I'm thinking of giving away a free glue stick with each purchase as it looks like I can get a big bucket of them cheaply. You could pack the gluestick in the box and put a label "glue included" onto the box... I think this would turn the already great deal into a real bargain, since it is doubtful buyers will use up the glue stick for the minis in the box. On the other hand, as a buyer, ten boxes would gain me 10 companies of minis plus 9 unused glue sticks for ony 99.99… Wait, still a great bargain.  So, how big IS your cut? I only ask, because I'm thinking about putting some P&P games and tile sets on drivethruRPG and wonder, if this is worth the effort. Man, I'd so love to visit you at your table on a convention. However, I don't suppose you'll be coming to Germany, will you? I guess, your cut is far from being big enough to provide for the flights and hotel. |
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Post by squirmydad on Aug 24, 2016 6:23:43 GMT -9
One Bookshelf only takes 30% of sales. Which may seem steep comma but it's fine as get to avoid a lot of hassles by using their service. Initially, at the conventions, I lost a tremendous amount of money. My first year at the convention I lost 90% of the money that I put in. But at the end of the year I still showed an overall profit. The following years at the conventions, for various reasons, my returns have increased. Last year at the convention I broke even and I was quite pleased by that. One of the reasons that I like the conventions is because it's a direct customer interaction, I actually get to talk to people who have real questions about how to build stuff, what other things are available, etc.
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Post by squirmydad on Aug 24, 2016 22:07:24 GMT -9
I had forgotten about this place! @arcticdragongames - be sure to check this site out, perhaps you can work " Tank Shock" through here, or at least get a better idea on costs of production. |
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Post by squirmydad on Aug 29, 2016 12:16:47 GMT -9
It occurs to me that a business plan that solely consists of "Have fun, don't lose money" is not really much of a plan. However, it does do wonders for my stress levels and it's really how I've successfully run my technical theatre enterprises for the past 22 years, so it seems to work. I'm sure a bank would ask me to more specific though. |
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shep
Eternal Member
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Post by shep on Aug 29, 2016 22:39:01 GMT -9
Bah, business plans are for babies and parrots!  I had to write one down when I started my freelance journalist business. My proposals strayed from reality within the first few months and were never to be seen again, although they appeared to be oh so realitic and uplifting... However, six years later, I'm still in the business – struggling but managing... |
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Post by Christopher Roe on Aug 30, 2016 9:05:33 GMT -9
I've never had a business plan for any of my ventures, just a general intent that boils down to "Have fun, make stuff people enjoy, and come up with new and interesting ways to make it pay for itself while you're at it."
It's more of a confluence of multiple hobbies for me, rather than a full-on Serious Business With A Plan...the papercraft part keeps my inner artist happy, selling stuff and interacting with customers makes my inner boutique shopkeeper happy, coming up with interesting ways to sell stuff makes my inner e-commerce developer happy, and so on.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Aug 30, 2016 9:16:47 GMT -9
squirmydad - would a tuck box design be faster/cheaper to make? I'd imagine it could still hold plenty of minis and bases.
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 8, 2016 5:31:13 GMT -9
squirmydad - would a tuck box design be faster/cheaper to make? I'd imagine it could still hold plenty of minis and bases. I thought about that, one of the deciding factors on box size was these guys;  Even folded they take up a lot of real estate, plus the ranked base strips length had to be considered. Time permitting I would like to make a little card box for things you don't need a regiment of like a "Bandit Booster Box". That would be 10 pre-cut bandits and foam-slot bases for $6 a box. Or maybe call it an "Encounter Booster"? Dunno, I already have a tuckbox template done. I'll be uploading the templates for the company box later today for anyone who'd like to use them for storage or presentation. |
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 8, 2016 9:38:17 GMT -9
Instructions are done, they'll go in every box.  |
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Sept 8, 2016 10:21:44 GMT -9
Are there instructions to EDGE! ?
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 8, 2016 10:32:09 GMT -9
Are there instructions to EDGE! ? Thought about it, I decided to have examples of edged/non-edged on display for educational purposes instead. Here are the box instructions and a download with both pdf, png, and cut-files for the DIY crowd. The bottom section builds the same as the top, it's just smaller so it can nest. (Sample cover art by my daughter)  Box blanks download |
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Post by Brave Adventures on Sept 8, 2016 14:20:56 GMT -9
There are some really big Game Markets in Tokyo and Osaka each year that I would like to have a booth at someday. Maybe next autumn or the year after. I'd love to do something like this there.
Ryan
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Post by kgstanley81 on Sept 8, 2016 18:36:49 GMT -9
Does your daughter make miniatures, her lines look really good
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 8, 2016 19:48:59 GMT -9
Does your daughter make miniatures, her lines look really good No, she does do a lot of manga character speed drawing and is constantly practicing. She actually wants to be an animator. |
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 8, 2016 21:12:09 GMT -9
squirmydad - would a tuck box design be faster/cheaper to make? I'd imagine it could still hold plenty of minis and bases. Thinking about tuckboxes, there is something that could make good use of them;  |
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Post by oldschooldm on Sept 9, 2016 6:48:30 GMT -9
squirmydad - would a tuck box design be faster/cheaper to make? I'd imagine it could still hold plenty of minis and bases. Thinking about tuckboxes, there is something that could make good use of them;  With some nice stiff plastic sleeves! Now you're talkin! |
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I had to write one down when I started my freelance journalist business. My proposals strayed from reality within the first few months and were never to be seen again, although they appeared to be oh so realitic and uplifting...
