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Post by jeffgeorge on Apr 30, 2017 1:17:46 GMT -9
I was noodling around yesterday afternoon, working on a set of house rules for an OSR campaign I'd like to run soon, trying to solve one of the problems with the early iterations of D&D that has bugged me since about 1980: Playing a Magic User isn't fun until somewhere between 7th and 10th level, which is at least several months of gameplay at the rate we used to advance. 5e has largely addressed this issue with the addition of cantrips to the game (they may have been in 3.5/PF, but I was playing WoW during that period), but the 5e cantrips have always felt like a random assortment of silly little spells to me, instead of something more meaningful. Then it hit me: cantrips shouldn't be random little spells, they should be very, very specifically tied into the overall magic system, and especially into the process by which wizards learn their art. In fact, cantrips should be a kind of kata by which arcane spellcasters prepare to master related but more complex spells. So I began making notes on a cantrip system for use with OSR rules systems. Here are the priorities for my cantrip rules: - Cantrips should be low-impact spells, doing little or no HP damage, but providing tools for low-level casters to be creative in the application of magic to solve problems.
- Each cantrip should be tied closely with one or more "real" spells, serving as a sort of kata for practicing and preparing those spells.
- It should be possible to cast each cantrip many times a day, but some cost or risk must be attached to them to prevent them from being used constantly and indiscriminately.
- The rules regulating cantrips need to be simple, internally consistent, and compatible with existing OSR mechanics.
As I made my notes, it seemed like I was hitting most of those points, and sometimes all of them. I became more excited the longer I worked, and before I realized what happened, I'd written a full, playtestable first draft of an OSR rules supplement!
So, submitted for your approval, Playtest Draft 0.1 of <Link deleted after commercial release of Cantrips>!
Thanks in advance to anyone who downloads the PDF and gives it a read. Comments and critiques are not only welcome, but encouraged!
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Apr 30, 2017 17:37:05 GMT -9
You have certainly put a lot of thought and work into this (which is now my defintion of "noodling") and the document is well-written and formatted.
For my own taste, as an OSR player, I find it a little too rules-y. Things that I would house-rule as a GM or ask to be house-rules as a player would be as follows:
1) "Detect Magic" can be a very powerful spell. I think this should remain a full spell and not a cantrip.
2) I think failure to learn a cantrip should not disallow learning a new spell for another level; as a caster, I would much rather have a shot at a new spell than risk losing my chance on a cantrip.
3) I think there should be no limit to the number of csantrips a caster can learn.
Of course, that is just me. I like things simpler, and I know from reading your posts that you have very complicated thoughts (which may sound snarky but is meant as a compliment.)
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Post by jeffgeorge on Apr 30, 2017 18:21:49 GMT -9
Thanks for the feedback, Punkrabbitt. I appreciate and share the priority for OSR games not to get too "rulesy," as you say. I'm continuing to work on this little project, and will definitely work to be sure that it contains as few rules as possible without leaving loopholes that might break the game. Your house-rule suggestions are well-made, and I will definitely take them into account as I continue to think about, test, and edit the supplement. I'm going to hold off discussing them here for a day or two, though, because I want to give anyone else interested a chance to weigh in before I start muddying the waters myself. I'm eager to hear what anyone else has to say, as well.
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 1, 2017 7:07:55 GMT -9
I have a question for you, Punkrabbitt , and for the rest of the group: Is it that there are too many rules in my draft, or just too many words? I went through the draft this morning, teasing the actual rules from the text surrounding them, and this is what they boil down to: - The cantrip rules apply a casting bonus to many rolls and values. Depending on the rule system and GM preference, this bonus may be based on Intelligence or on Casting Mastery (equal to the maximum level spell the caster can currently cast).
- Every spell has a prerequisite cantrip, which is always included in the written form of that spell. If you know a spell, you automatically know its associated cantrip.
- If your rule set requires you to roll to learn spells, you must learn the cantrip separately, before you can roll to learn the spell. Rolls to learn a cantrip are 10% easier than rolls to learn spells.
- If your rule set limits the number of spells a Magic-User can learn per level, that limit applies to “unassociated” as well. Cantrips for which the Magic-User knows at least one associated spell do not count against this limit.
- To cast a cantrip, the caster must roll 10+ on a d20+casting bonus. If this roll is failed, the caster loses the use of that cantrip until the next time he prepares spells. He also loses of any spells associated with that spell that he has prepared, as well as the spell slots they are saved in, until he next prepares spells.
- The number of cantrips a caster can have active at once is limited. (This rule was inadvertently omitted from draft v0.1.) If a caster is at his active limit, and casts another cantrip, the oldest active cantrip fades as the new one is cast. The GM should choose one of these maximums for active cantrips:
• 3 active cantrips • (1 + Int Bonus) active cantrips • (Casting Mastery) active cantrips
Of these rules, 1 & 2 are general cantrip concepts. Players will only interact with them outside of play, either at character creation or when adding a spell to their book.
3 & 4 are optional, and are present because they are in keeping with the way MUs learn spells in Swords & Wizardry Complete. Labyrinth Lord, Basic Fantasy, and many other rulesets don't limit spellcasters in either of these ways, so these rules should be ignored if you are playing by those systems.
Only 5 & 6 actually come up during play, and they are deliberately simple rules that rely on numbers that can be predetermined and should be noted on the character sheet.
To streamline the use of cantrips in play, the next draft standardizes the cantrip descriptions around a few common values:
- Cantrips target either the caster himself, one creature, or one small object.
- Cantrips have a range of Touch or 30’.
- Cantrips have a duration of either a single use, or 10 + casting bonus minutes.
I'm not sure how to do cantrips with any fewer rules without making them far too powerful. Although I've formatted the current draft as a booklet, with lots of explanations, examples, and advice, the actual rules themselves (including the individual cantrip descriptions) could be summarized one side of a single 8.5 x 11 page in a readable font. Perhaps that would be a more convenient or less intimidating format?
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Post by Punkrabbitt on May 1, 2017 11:07:50 GMT -9
I found your document easy to read. I'm not a good judge of "too many words," as I read a lot of physics and biology when I have a chance. Those guys are too wordy o.0 I play(ed) Swords & Wizardy White Box, but I really haven't looked at any RPG rules in about two years. So it may just *seem* rulesy to me since I have been mostly playing five-page miniature games
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 3, 2017 0:16:49 GMT -9
Here's a link to Playtest Draft v0.2 of my Cantrips supplement <link deleted>. I'm obviously intending to release this via OBS eventually, and once it is available there, I'll take this link down. It's now formatted in digest size, so it prints nicely using the "Booklet" format in your PDF print dialog window. I've implemented the changes I mentioned in my previous post, with one more change: the roll to successfully cast a cantrip is now 8+ on (1d20 + Casting Bonus). This means that a caster with a 16 Int--which gives him a +2 Casting Bonus, by Labyrinth Lord tables--successfully casts a cantrip on a 6+, or 75% of the time. If he has an Int of 18, he has a +3 bonus, and casts cantrips successfully on a 5+, for an 80% chance of success. I feel like that's enough...if anyone uses the rules and thinks a tweak is needed here, or anywhere, please let me know! What is still missing is the one-page summary promised in the booklet. I definitely plan to add that to the final package, but I'm not going to waste time formatting it until the rules themselves are pretty close to settled. If you want the summarized version of the rules, the post above is still accurate, with the exception of the change to the target number on the cantrip casting roll. Once again, thanks in advance for any input!
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Post by jeffgeorge on May 7, 2017 5:39:08 GMT -9
If anyone is following this, here is Playtest Draft v0.3 of the OSR Cantrips supplement <link deleted>.
This is likely to be the last version before I finalize it for release, unless someone comes up with a really critical problem with something in it.
I've tightened up the prose a bit, and added guidance on how likely onlookers are to notice a cantrip being cast, which could come up when cantrips get used to influence roleplaying situations more than combat. I've included versions of that guidance for GMs using a d20-style Perception check, and for GMs using Oe-style d6-based chances to notice stuff. I was able to trim enough fluff out of the text to fit that new bit in without adjusting the page count.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Feb 1, 2019 18:44:38 GMT -9
I've finally submitted this book to DriveThruRPG as my first for-sale product, so I'm pulling down the links to the playtest versions throughout this thread. Thanks to everyone who provided feedback, in this thread and elsewhere. I'll make an "official" announcement once DTRPG has approved the book for sale.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Feb 6, 2019 20:26:16 GMT -9
The Cantrips book has been approved and is now available for sale at DriveThruRPG. The regular price is $1.99, but I've made it available to Cardboard Warriors members and friends at half price, now through February 17: Get Cantrips at half price!
The official announcement is in the News forum here at Cardboard Warriors, for anyone interested. Thanks again for everyone's comments and encouragement as I worked on this project!
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