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Post by sudsy on Sept 29, 2018 8:44:59 GMT -9
Okay, I'm looking at trying to create 3D papercraft armor/softskin vehicles.
I'm looking more toward 15mm/28mm scales for science fiction gaming.
Does anyone have tutorials for designing these? How do I use scale 2D scale drawings of an AFV to create a 3D cardboard/papercraft model. On top of that, how do I make so I can share (which I place here as incentive for assistance...).
My resources for creating run from professional level (AutoCAD 2015 LT) to free (3DS Draftsight [just like ACAD, free for personal use, or you could pay $200 a year for a Professional License]) and open source (GIMP, Inkscape, FreeCAD).
I need some of the workflow you professional use when you develop these great 3D papercraft models. Be it links to tutorials & videos, or just some advice.
So far the last few years, I've been frustrated in most attempts. Sometimes, I've done awesome stuff, with the caveat of not being able to reproduce it. Now, I feel a bit of a professional obligation to make whatever I do reproducible. I do that every day in my job (as a mechanical designer/draftsman, hence owning an AutoCAD License), but for whatever reason, I have not been able to translate those skills with steel and sheet metal into my papercraft! Sure, I've got some nice 3D print parts on Thingiverse, but now I want to add to the papercraft. 3D printing is great for some complex detail parts, but why waste plastic printing an armored box or a wall?! That is where the paper stands out as the 'go to' for most of my terrain projects. Now I want to do it for some armored vehicles.
Thanks in advance!
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Post by Vermin King on Sept 29, 2018 9:12:37 GMT -9
One of the best things you can do to start is to build other folks' work. You can see how others handle issues that come up.
I like building and designing vehicles, but I am not that good at it. Fully half of my projects are never completed. I get to a point where I get stuck trying to work out a part and still have things buildable, the M-ATV is a vehicle I have tried to do many times, with no finished model.
Wish I could be more help
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 29, 2018 12:51:02 GMT -9
I am by no means an expert. I mostly do 2D, It seems like you might be better at this than I am, so forgive me if I state the obvious. When I do 3d I start with orthographic projection. Front, top, back, and side. you can clone one side for the other and then tweak it or alter it.
Obviously, angled elements are going to be foreshortened in some views so you will need to kind of "explode" some bits. The measurements from the other views will often give you the actual size of a piece that is distorted.
The other thing you can ask yourself: "Can I build this out of regular solids?" And then: "Which planes of the regular solids can I combine or leave out and still have my desired shape."
As for sharing: I draw it all up in GIMP and export to PNG. Then you can post it here in a relevant thread or offer it up in a Hoard.
Start a Work in Progress thread and get advice as you go along!
I look forward to learn along with you.
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 30, 2018 17:13:57 GMT -9
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 3, 2018 17:35:23 GMT -9
Do you have a vehicle in mind?
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Post by sudsy on Oct 4, 2018 10:49:19 GMT -9
Do you have a vehicle in mind? Not specifically. Though I've got some ideas. Stryker ICV's for example. I've got a 1:35th scale (AFV Club) kit I've been working on, so I've got the orthographic views along side an actual model to compare with (and few books with scale tables to convert, thanks to Stackpole books...).
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Post by sudsy on Oct 5, 2018 8:00:38 GMT -9
I am currently buildin some BMP-1/2 inspired alternate MICVs (Chimera from 40k alternatives...) that I found over on another card and paper construction BBS, and I am making mental notes as I go along about how the guy designed them. Since they are not 40k, but 28mm SF generic, I might post my build here with my thoughts as I go along.
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Post by sudsy on Oct 5, 2018 8:01:14 GMT -9
Any little insight helps!
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 5, 2018 8:29:41 GMT -9
Could you post an image of a vehicle you would like to attempt?
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Post by squirmydad on Oct 5, 2018 12:05:40 GMT -9
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Post by sudsy on Oct 5, 2018 14:25:59 GMT -9
I have filled a significant portion of my hard drive with these already! Time to print and build, and learn from them!
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Post by sudsy on Oct 5, 2018 14:46:00 GMT -9
Could you post an image of a vehicle you would like to attempt? I'll post some links real quick first...
...oops, the IMG URL actually worked! Now, is this BRT 90 to scale? Probably not. I'm less concerned about precision scale model scale as compared to say, "does that look good next to my 28mm Reaper Bones soldier or GW Imperial Guardsman...
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Post by sudsy on Oct 5, 2018 14:48:08 GMT -9
I picked this one because I found these rare views as well:
I suspect these come from a Russian or Ukrainian model kit. If anyone knows those two languages and can confirm that, it would be appreciated.
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Post by sudsy on Oct 5, 2018 14:49:57 GMT -9
Here is my source for the BTR-90, because they have a lot more: drawingdatabase.com/ I'll have to compare them to the miniature templates here to scale them!
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 5, 2018 15:06:29 GMT -9
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Post by squirmydad on Oct 5, 2018 15:39:19 GMT -9
Having all of those views is really handy for crafting your 3d model. The first thing I do when I have a bunch of vehicle views like this is go through and make sure they are all set to the same scale and resolution. Then I can import the images into my 3d program and know how big to make all of my solids.
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Post by sudsy on Oct 5, 2018 15:40:23 GMT -9
Still, that Urutu is a nice base vehicle to work with. I certainly want to create more modern looking armor, that is the aesthetics I like more than the WWI/WWII mashed with over the top Gothic grim dark....
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 5, 2018 16:39:37 GMT -9
Having all of those views is really handy for crafting your 3d model. The first thing I do when I have a bunch of vehicle views like this is go through and make sure they are all set to the same scale and resolution. Then I can import the images into my 3d program and know how big to make all of my solids. 'my 3d program' seems to come up as a phrase, but I was wondering which one you use
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Post by squirmydad on Oct 5, 2018 17:43:17 GMT -9
Having all of those views is really handy for crafting your 3d model. The first thing I do when I have a bunch of vehicle views like this is go through and make sure they are all set to the same scale and resolution. Then I can import the images into my 3d program and know how big to make all of my solids. 'my 3d program' seems to come up as a phrase, but I was wondering which one you use The one I use is an older version of Vectorworks; www.vectorworks.net/enspotlightI trained on it for theatrical design applications and found that I could export my models to Pepakura (after a brief stop in Metasequoia) for unfolding and layout. It allows me to a make very simple solids and meshes and has no problems importing images to use as guides.
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 8, 2018 16:54:12 GMT -9
Still, that Urutu is a nice base vehicle to work with. I certainly want to create more modern looking armor, that is the aesthetics I like more than the WWI/WWII mashed with over the top Gothic grim dark.... BTW, what program are you going to be using for image editing?
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Post by sudsy on Oct 9, 2018 17:33:44 GMT -9
Still, that Urutu is a nice base vehicle to work with. I certainly want to create more modern looking armor, that is the aesthetics I like more than the WWI/WWII mashed with over the top Gothic grim dark.... BTW, what program are you going to be using for image editing? Typically, I use GIMP for most photo editing. I have a list of pixel painters for my painting needs (MyPaint, MangaStudio, SketchbookPro), and ocassionally Inkscape for vector (when I am patient enough not to resort to CAD with AutoCAD or Draftsight).
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 9, 2018 17:40:45 GMT -9
Sounds like I should be learning from you
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Post by cherno on Oct 16, 2018 7:35:26 GMT -9
I create a model and texture it, for example with Blender. You coudl also try to find a free one that is already complete or rip one from a game if it's for personal use. Then I import it to PaperMakeIt!, which costs about $20. It allows you to easily convert the model file to a paper model template.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Oct 17, 2018 4:59:09 GMT -9
For 3d shapes, my crazy process has become: 1) SketchUp to make the model. I make a group of each face, which makes my life a little easier. 2) In SketchUp I manually flatten the model. I select a face or several attached faces and rotate them along a common edge until the model is flat. 3) I export from SketchUp into a format (.dxf?) that Silhouette Studio can import. 4) In Silhouette Studio, I scale the whole thing to the right size, ungroup everything, clean up the lines, adjust the line styles (scores, reverse scores etc), make the lines all 1pt thick, and print to PDF 5) I open the PDF in gimp, select the interior, expand the selection 3px, and color-to-alpha the white.
That gives me very clean templates, and I also get cutfiles for the 3d models in the process.
I haven't had the time to dedicate to learning blender. It's learning curve feels harder than gimp was for me. Certainly dramatically harder than sketchup or silhouette studio (for me). But, I'm open to other, better, strategies.
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Post by sudsy on Oct 17, 2018 17:52:16 GMT -9
Sounds like I should be learning from you Only if I accomplish something worth learning about! Dabbling hasn't proven useful... yet...
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 17, 2018 18:46:57 GMT -9
If I were you, I'd take a model and start modifying it to learn what can and can't be done.
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Post by glennwilliams on Oct 18, 2018 6:36:09 GMT -9
If I were you, I'd take a model and start modifying it to learn what can and can't be done. I started that way with Mel Ebbles' models. Modding is a great way to begin. For a first full model, I'd actually recommend something with a relatively simple shape like an M-113. Wheeled models tend to have complex shapes that are hard for a beginner (in fact, if you look at my last release based on the Russian Typhoon K you'll see I simply avoided the complicated shapes). Not only that, while simple wheels are easy to design and texture, more realistic wheels are areal (and tedious) bear to assemble for the end user. YMMV. After your 3d modeling software (Hexagon from Daz3d is free btw) and paint program, don't forget you'll need a UV unwrapper to create the surfaces for texturing and an unfolder to make the pages. Most important: show off your progress! Post and let us see. It's exciting for you and us.
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Post by glennwilliams on Oct 23, 2018 9:07:29 GMT -9
I keep thinking about this. One thing that is important is to start thinking in terms of primitives--the basic shapes your modelling software uses. I don't use paper sketches anymore. Rather I sketch with the primitives in my head, then use the modelling software as a 3D sketch pad. (I should add that I'm a finalist in the world's worst artist lottery--so my paper sketches look more like demented doodles). I'd recommend building your complex shapes by adding and modifying primitives (scale, rotate, moving faces and edges, extrude, chamfer--sometimes called fillet, etc) until you're comfortable with the process. Boolean operations where you add or subtract shapes should wait. While they're essential, they're also frustrating to learn and fiddly to use.
Once you're on your way, I'd recommend you design a set of basic parts such as wheels and treads to import into your design. Take your camera with you wherever you go. I just went to a Fly-in at the Mojave spaceport and got some great pictures of F-86 and Rotary Rocket landing gear, markings, and panels that will eventually make their way into model textures. When you can afford it, I'd also recommend buying some commercial textures to use as basecoats, importing them into patterns (the Photoshop term).
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