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Post by bracno on Oct 19, 2019 14:54:14 GMT -9
Hi friends, I am finishing a Halloween Set to sell and want to know some good options to sell the minis, I know Drivethru Rpg is probably the biggest place for it but I want to know if there is some other good options. Thanks! =)
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 19, 2019 18:19:31 GMT -9
I've never sold a thing, so I am not much help
BTW, I really like the werewolf
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Post by dafrca on Oct 19, 2019 18:34:50 GMT -9
I have only bought minis from DriveThruRPG and by becoming a Patreon. That is it that I am aware of.
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Post by cowboyleland on Oct 20, 2019 7:03:11 GMT -9
I know some artists set up their own website with a shop, other's argue that is too much work.
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Post by bracno on Oct 20, 2019 7:20:57 GMT -9
Hey thanks Vermin King, glad you like it. PAtreon is one thing I want to make, but I need to find time to make the minis and work on my projects and day job, I don't want my patreons to feel that they don't get enough each month. And I think setting my own shop with some sites that allow this is a better idea in long term, but make it difficult to reach the community. THanks friends! =)
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Post by chiefasaur on Oct 20, 2019 11:29:40 GMT -9
I've been seeing a lot of chatter about RPG authors shifting over to Itch, but I don't know how successful that move has been.
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Post by dafrca on Oct 20, 2019 12:44:29 GMT -9
I've been seeing a lot of chatter about RPG authors shifting over to Itch, but I don't know how successful that move has been. Well if that is true they need to do a better job of promoting Itch.
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Post by bracno on Oct 20, 2019 13:31:35 GMT -9
If there is a lot of chatter maybe Itch.io can be a good option,but yep, we need to start promoting more.
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Post by Antohammer on Oct 20, 2019 22:22:20 GMT -9
they are very nice!!! you should buy a graphic tablet and start drawing them digitally!!! you would have a lot of sales!!!!
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Post by bracno on Oct 21, 2019 0:35:04 GMT -9
they are very nice!!! you should buy a graphic tablet and start drawing them digitally!!! you would have a lot of sales!!!! Hey thanks!! Let's hope people like it, buy it and enjoy the minis. =)
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 29, 2019 22:38:04 GMT -9
For what it's worth, as a paper mini buyer, I MUCH prefer to buy through DriveThruRPG than through a publisher site. I've used DTRPG for years, and found the site to be extremely reliable. I can count on it to be there for many more years to come, so if a catastrophic hard drive failure some day destroys my local collection, I can recover my purchases easily. Publisher-operated web stores seem very tentative to me. If the publisher finds he can't make enough money to justify continuing his time and expense to maintain the website, he lets it die, and I can't access the files I've paid for anymore. For this reason, I rarely, rarely purchase from an independent publisher website--only if it's something I really want, and can't get through DTRPG. I do support a few artists through Patreon, but my standards for reliability and productivity there are pretty high. I won't sign up until the publisher has at least a six-month track-record of producing at least 3-5 minis a month. Most printable mini campaigns on Patreon pop up and die within a very few months. As an artist, I wouldn't even think of starting a Patreon campaign unless I had an existing catalog of at least a couple dozen good minis, and could reliably produce at least another half dozen each month. The going rate on DTRPG is somewhere between 25 and 50 cents per mini, not counting color variations, so you're not going to get my Patreon commitment unless you're competitive with this price point. I feel guilty when I have to cut my support for a Patreon artist who's not producing regularly, but there are more artists who do publish several minis each month than I have dollars available to spend on them. My firm opinion is, unless you have a big existing range of miniatures, and a really strong commitment to setting up and maintaining an eCommerce website, sell your stuff through DriveThru. They handle all the grunt work for you, give you lots of options for marketing and promotion if you're interested in them, have a massive existing customer base to sell your product to, and their cut is not too burdensome. I've released one product through DriveThruRPG-- Cantrips, an OSR magic supplement--and it's sold several dozen copies over the six months it's been available. All I had to do was write and lay out the book, and upload it to DTRPG. I've done next to no promotion for it, even on my own blog. If I'd tried to set up my own website to sell it, I'd have worked many times as hard building the store and promoting the site and product, and probably sold less than one copy a month while spending more than that on hosting and eCommerce fees. Bottom line: I'd much rather have 70% of a large pie that I didn't have to make, than 100% of a tiny pie that I had to cook myself. I'm not getting rich, but I'm making more than I'm spending at DTRPG, and that's on a single, modestly successful old-school D&D supplement.
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 30, 2019 4:49:37 GMT -9
When I lost my computer, it was great that I could go to the OBS sites and recover a lot of what I had lost. In trying to get some of my other favorites, many of the sites were no longer there and Wayback Machine couldn't pull the files. I think jeffgeorge is 100% spot-on
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Post by wyvern on Oct 30, 2019 6:45:58 GMT -9
Yeah, I agree with Vermin King that jeffgeorge's comments are spot-on. Patreon has other disadvantages for me as a potential purchaser as well, because in an online store like DTRPG I can see exactly what I'm paying for upfront. If an artist on Patreon suddenly produces items of no interest one month, I'm still paying for them unless I spend a while going through and changing my payment options or deleting that account entirely. Plus for EU citizens, Patreon charges you sales tax (VAT) of 20% on top of your payments to the artist, which is a serious deterrent because you're only having to pay VAT due to the size of Patreon. If you were buying direct from the artist, most wouldn't be earning anything like enough to have to pay this tax!
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Post by oldschooldm on Oct 31, 2019 6:13:48 GMT -9
I back patreon creators I want to encourage to do more work - even if I don't use most of it. I don't see it as an alternative to a store at all.
That said, I still have personal criteria for selecting those I patron.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Nov 1, 2019 4:37:56 GMT -9
I back patreon creators I want to encourage to do more work - even if I don't use most of it. I don't see it as an alternative to a store at all. That said, I still have personal criteria for selecting those I patron. That's a totally valid perspective, oldschooldm--viewing one's participation in the Patreon program as being a patron, rather than a client or customer. There's no better way to encourage an artist to do art than to help fund his or her work. That said, if I were looking to begin an ongoing Patreon campaign myself, I'd be real sure that I had the skill, the commitment, the time, and some existing back catalog to support it. And I'd want to be sure that I could meet the expectations I set for new content each month with entirely new content. I fear that it might be easy to over-commit by figuring you could release your back catalog a few pieces a month in order to supplement the actual new material you have time to create each month. Over-estimating your ongoing capacity to produce is one of the things that frequently leads Patreon campaigns to crash; relying on parceling out pre-existing content is a short-term bandage that raises everyone's expectations to levels that may not be sustainable. If I were considering starting a Patreon campaign, I'd think real hard about the commitment it entails. I'd also seriously consider setting it up to charge by the project or piece, rather than by the month, just to be sure I didn't short-change my supporters in a month where real life cut my productivity seriously. Yes, Patreon does offer artists the ability to suspend collecting patron payments for a month at a time, in case you're temporarily inactive, but after you do that two or three times, many patrons are going to shift their support to more active artists. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. If I were planning a Patreon campaign, I'd still produce content and release it through DTRPG for six months to a year before soliciting continuing support through Patreon, if only to prove to myself that I could meed the demands of the platform.
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 1, 2019 5:33:36 GMT -9
The commitment part is why I don't think I would be a good candidate to do a Patreon. That and my interests change so frequently. No one would know month to month what to expect on any given month. And that actually works for some of the artists, but I fear that it probably wouldn't work for me.
That, and if this became a job with commitments and the stress associated with that, I think my creativity and enjoyment would suffer.
So, I am afraid that you all are stuck with me posting things here for free. Sorry
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Post by oldschooldm on Nov 1, 2019 5:37:55 GMT -9
I agree that a patron/creator relationship is about properly setting expectations. I'd also seriously consider setting it up to charge by the project or piece, rather than by the month, just to be sure I didn't short-change my supporters in a month where real life cut my productivity seriously There is at least one Creator I dropped because they didn't produce regular-ish output (I don't think monthly *always* makes the most sense, especially for large projects.) That was Dave's. He would go for months and months with no communication and no output. If he'd switched to per-project/item early enough, I would have stayed with him while he worked out what he really wanted to to do. Creators need to commit to a relationship with their patrons, and stay in contact with them especially if they are facing challenges. But - for me - the calendar isn't the moderator in our relationship, it's the commitment of both parties - reflected by communication and content.
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Post by oldschooldm on Nov 1, 2019 5:40:48 GMT -9
The commitment part is why I don't think I would be a good candidate to do a Patreon. That and my interests change so frequently. No one would know month to month what to expect on any given month. And that actually works for some of the artists, but I fear that it probably wouldn't work for me. That, and if this became a job with commitments and the stress associated with that, I think my creativity and enjoyment would suffer. So, I am afraid that you all are stuck with me posting things here for free. Sorry Hmm. Your output is second to none - so I'm wondering what you think is a mismatch. If you said "per project" you could take as long as you need, and we'd all be impressed at your output rate. *You don't have to do "monthly"*.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Nov 1, 2019 6:01:11 GMT -9
I back a number of creators, and the flood of stuff I get I can hardly keep up with. I much prefer a dtrpg catalog over this file-here, file-there, poorly-named-multiple-releases-per-tier patreon thing. But, that's where the action is these days!
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 1, 2019 6:25:54 GMT -9
Now that I'm rebuilding my library, I've learned to organize files and try to keep key phrases in file names. That is probably the OCD kicking in, but I've learned that especially on multi-page things, you have to keep things organized. And folks have to be able to find the files easily on their computers, so name things with 'descriptors'.
I admit that I have a lot of output, but there is a huge stockpile of incomplete projects. I wrestle with things and set them aside for other interests and don't get back to them. One of the reasons I am doing the '57 Chevy's is to gain a background to get the Doctor Who Edsel done. Betsy done, Rory's Jag done, but until I have a third vehicle, it isn't really a set. Although I also want to add Mickey's Big Yellow Truck some day to it. I also have the Austin Powers Jag and Rory's Jag, but to be a set, I need to go back and do Harry and Meghan's Jag.
I really need to work on the discipline thing. But that takes me back to turning it into a job. I've got three of those already...
I do have tonight earmarked for finishing the undercarriage on the '57's. I'd really like to build the coupes this weekend. That would be a good set. Next week, I should get the Ute-version done, then add the Nomad and Ute to the collection. Then I need to do Wasteland versions. I've collected some good images of rusty Chevy's, so the Wasteland versions will be rusty with mismatched fenders and body panels (I'm thinking of a dear departed friend's old Ranger that had every piece of exterior metal from a different truck) and plain wheels or 4X4 wheels. Those should be pretty fun. Not from the movie, but they would fit in. And I need to get back to the Desert Buggy and the Iron Cross buggy
On the other hand, Patreon might be a way to keep me 'on track'
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Nov 1, 2019 7:38:37 GMT -9
I believe it is a very common feeling that Patreon is a way to always feel behind schedule. It's also an emotional rollercoaster every month as people come and go, especially when you first start. I claim on my Patreon that I'll average 4 sets of cutfiles each month. In reality I have been squeezing out at least 8, and literally every day I stress about whether I've done enough for my patrons.
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Post by dafrca on Nov 1, 2019 9:44:50 GMT -9
I think you guys have hit the nail right on the head. The commitment and clear expectations are important. I would also add that as an artist you must resist the urge to jump from one shinny new project to another before finishing it. I have seen a few that jump from project to project and hurt their productivity by not focusing on the existing projects.
For me, I am not expecting a release schedule that is ridged and fixed, but at least a cadence that is often enough that I feel like new releases are flowing. This is where good communication comes in. If the artist is doing a larger project that needs more time, share and tell us it is a two month release. Then share progress reports every so often. I know I would wait extra time knowing what was going to come. :-)
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on Nov 1, 2019 11:14:39 GMT -9
Understanding the way Patreon works - knowing that there's monthly and per-project plans for example - is important. There are quite a number of folks here with Patreons, and can offer 2¢ to be taken with a grain of salt, but it's still a salty 2¢ none-the-less.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Nov 1, 2019 15:44:27 GMT -9
Another point about the commitment necessary for a successful Patreon campaign: You have to be willing to work within a pretty confined space, in terms of genre and format. For example, if you start a Patreon delivering D&D-style character and monster minis, you're going to get a bunch of patrons who play D&D and are counting on you to support that hobby. If you find some day that you are sick of fantasy characters, and would rather make paper SF spaceship kits for a while, you're kind of stuck making the D&D minis anyway. You've got an existing subscriber base that's paying for and expecting products within the genre--fantasy--and format--character miniatures--that you've promised. Some may stick with you while you explore your starfighter muse, but a lot are going to feel like they've been baited and switched. Those folks are going to drop you after a couple of months, and they're going to be annoyed about the two month's worth of spaceships they paid for but didn't ask for and can't use.
A Patreon campaign is like a magazine subscription. When I subscribe to Rolling Stone, I expect a bundle of new music reviews and musician interviews each month. If hockey season starts, and the editor starts filling the magazine with articles about hockey players and coaches I care nothing about, I'm gonna be pretty peeved. When I committed to pay for Rolling Stone every month, I expect to receive Rolling-Stone-type content, not Hockey Fancier Monthly.
On the other hand, if you aren't totally committed to working every month within a pretty narrow range of potential projects, you'd probably serve your customers better by making two or more lines of products and releasing them through DTRPG, again. That way, folks who just want your fantasy figures can get those as they come out, while the ones who want your spaceships can buy those instead. And of course, your die-hard fans can pick up both lines, since you're including some sort of ad or promotional page touting your whole catalog with every download, right?
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Post by bracno on Nov 2, 2019 7:14:04 GMT -9
I lot of good information about it, right now I made a page on Itch.io for my Minis, I want to try first a page in a different online store than Drive Thru, and if things don't go I see what I do, bu I will release new mini sets on the site every month. bracnolion.itch.io/ with the first on October the Halloween Set. ANd I agree with jeffgeorge that patreon need to have a specific setting, and for the Patreon Page I will make fantasy minis, but right now I need to find time to proper make the minis every month, and other thing I want the Patreon page to support is a tabletop game I am making with fantasy setting so I think it fits well with the paper miniatures theme. And the online store I use to make sets of other settings (like sci fi and post apocalypse), but it's a lot to think and planning, and the discussion here is super useful for me. Thanks!
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Post by wyvern on Nov 2, 2019 7:36:31 GMT -9
If you're thinking of using any of the OBS community content sites (such as DM's Guild), I'd strongly recommend seeing this recent posting on Michael Prescott's excellent Trilemma blog, most especially the "Legal Lunacy: OBS Community Programs" section, as it seems you're essentially signing away ALL rights to your own work published on said community content sites IN PERPETUITY for NO RETURN WHATSOEVER beyond what that one site allows you!!!!! Note this DOES NOT apply to the OBS-own-run sites, like DT RPG and Wargame Vault, just the community content ones.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Nov 7, 2019 4:49:40 GMT -9
If you're thinking of using any of the OBS community content sites (such as DM's Guild), I'd strongly recommend seeing this recent posting on Michael Prescott's excellent Trilemma blog, most especially the "Legal Lunacy: OBS Community Programs" section, as it seems you're essentially signing away ALL rights to your own work published on said community content sites IN PERPETUITY for NO RETURN WHATSOEVER beyond what that one site allows you!!!!! Note this DOES NOT apply to the OBS-own-run sites, like DT RPG and Wargame Vault, just the community content ones. Wow, that post is super informative. I strongly recommend anyone interested in publishing a game product to be used with existing game systems give it a read. It confirms my previous spidey-sense alert that DMsGuild was a bad deal, and lays out why. It also makes me wonder to what degree OSR products actually need the OGL to exist. It certainly sound like, if you change the mechanics of your game to any significant degree, you should NOT paste an OGL page in the back. Interesting... Thanks for sharing this, wyvern.
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Post by wyvern on Nov 8, 2019 5:47:02 GMT -9
You're welcome jeffgeorge. Must admit, I was pretty astonished to read it seeing how much new content appears daily on DM's Guild. I know when it began, I contacted several of the early publishers of fresh ideas to assist with tidying-up their English and layout a little (because they noted they were non-native English speakers), but they've ALL dropped it since. I wonder if maybe they hadn't read, or more likely understood, properly what they were signing-up for.
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Post by dafrca on Nov 8, 2019 17:47:25 GMT -9
wyvern I also suspect many folks didn't realize how hard it would be to publish content that will attract repeat buyers over time. They had one or two ideas and dumped them on the DM's Guild then what? I can't imagine the percent of folks making any money based on time spent for creation, writing, layout editing, or playtesting could be that many. Then add in the cost of artwork and let's face it, most do a few items out of love for the game, put them up, and if they get a few dollars on the side great. If you are going to try and be a real publisher, the amount of hard work and costs just to get content out there is quite a bit higher then most people would think. And that is without adding on this legal stuff either. LOL
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 9, 2019 7:00:16 GMT -9
I have a friend who wrote several very popular adventures for Paizo. It didn't matter that his stuff sold better than the work of most others, they continued to offer him the same rate (I 'THINK' eight cents a word?.) He realised it was not a viable career and stopped writing. I still game with him every week.
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