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Post by goas77 on Nov 5, 2019 6:49:08 GMT -9
Hello everyone.
I have a question or problem. When printing the paper minis, both from the download area, some from the forum, those that come on the Onemonk page to buy or another example from Antohammer, among others ... I do not get the measures of 28 mm. My reference is Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k, but I do not get the size of the minis to be similar or equal to those of Games Workshop.
When comparing a skeleton or elf Onemonk, I was many smaller than an imperial shooter. Some help or advice to keep in mind so that its size is correct.
Thank you.
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Post by cowboyleland on Nov 5, 2019 7:03:22 GMT -9
When I have this kind of problem it is usually printer settings. Usually "fit to page" or something like that has got clicked and it throws things off. I don't own any GW figures, but most manufacturers have "scale creep" issues that result from trying to make a new figure a little more impressive by making it a little bigger. And then the next new figure has to be more impressive than that so . . .
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 5, 2019 7:49:35 GMT -9
Printer margin settings can also mess with things.
What printer do you use?
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Post by goas77 on Nov 5, 2019 8:05:07 GMT -9
Printer margin settings can also mess with things. What printer do you use? I use an old Epson 255, it is for domestic use. When I printed it, I adjusted the page, margins, but they were large, until I began to adjust the print size, reducing it to 85%. The problem that each new print the size of each mini is different, which causes the size and scale to be lost on paper minis. He made several prints of the same page until he adjusted the size, lost sheet, ink and never got a good size result.
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Post by alloydog on Nov 5, 2019 8:11:51 GMT -9
When I have this kind of problem it is usually printer settings. Usually "fit to page" or something like that has got clicked and it throws things off. I don't own any GW figures, but most manufacturers have "scale creep" issues that result from trying to make a new figure a little more impressive by making it a little bigger. And then the next new figure has to be more impressive than that so . . . Scale creep? What on Earth do you mean?
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Post by alloydog on Nov 5, 2019 8:19:15 GMT -9
I find even paper minis and models from different artists can be different sizes. So now, when I get something from a new source, I print up a test sheet, in black and white, draft quality. I then measure the figure from toe to eye-line and print with the appropriate scaling, with "Ignore page margins" checked.
For example, for my Sci Fi stuff, I started with figures from Ebbles/One Monk. One the printer I used, these were pretty true to 28 mm and very close to a bunch of old GW Space Marine figures I had. After that, I found the figures from Okum Arts Games and the buildings from Dave Graffam to be a bit on the big side. But this isn't a problem for me, as to my eyes, at least, scaling down retains the quality of the print, where as scaling up, you lose quality.
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 5, 2019 8:29:47 GMT -9
goas77, do you have Gimp, Inkscape or Photoshop? You can open the files in there and see how close the figures are to 28mm and see if it is the files themselves. My guess is that you have a printer setting that is messing things up. When you are printing, does the printer show an image of what is being printed?
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Post by goas77 on Nov 5, 2019 8:35:09 GMT -9
goas77, do you have Gimp, Inkscape or Photoshop? You can open the files in there and see how close the figures are to 28mm and see if it is the files themselves. My guess is that you have a printer setting that is messing things up. When you are printing, does the printer show an image of what is being printed? I do not have any of these applications, maybe I will use one to have a more accurate view of the scale. I don't know what the printer configuration will have to be modified to be correct. I have a previous image before printing, from where it lets me choose page setting, margins, size ...
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 5, 2019 9:29:33 GMT -9
Does your computer show you a preview image of what is being printed? Sometimes that can give a good heads-up about what the problem is. And there is a little discrepency between designers. Even the exhalted and most-revered okumarts has admitted to some scale creep (and major kudos for him acknowledging it, since many designers feel they are above being questioned about anything). I have also seen figures by the same artist on the same set/page have discrepencies (not Dave this time (I've never seen him have that issue)). We are all human. Is there a particular file that is creating the problem from either the forum, the Hoards or the Downloads that I can check the file on? Verifying whether it is a file issue or printer issue seems to be the key right now
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Post by goas77 on Nov 5, 2019 10:22:45 GMT -9
Does your computer show you a preview image of what is being printed? Sometimes that can give a good heads-up about what the problem is. And there is a little discrepency between designers. Even the exhalted and most-revered okumarts has admitted to some scale creep (and major kudos for him acknowledging it, since many designers feel they are above being questioned about anything). I have also seen figures by the same artist on the same set/page have discrepencies (not Dave this time (I've never seen him have that issue)). We are all human. Is there a particular file that is creating the problem from either the forum, the Hoards or the Downloads that I can check the file on? Verifying whether it is a file issue or printer issue seems to be the key right now The PC shows a previous version but not the original size, until I print it I don't know if the size is correct. It is not a specific Hoards file, it happens to me with many minis from different creators and different download sites, even from the same series, such as the Elvish alliance, when printing different pages at different times I do not get the same flock. This is my question or problem, how to print to have a standardized scale.
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 5, 2019 11:11:43 GMT -9
Honestly, I rarely print any minis 'as is'. To fit in with the bulk of my printed minis, I almost always open new ones in Gimp and rescale them so that an average male is one inch from the soles of his feet to the Adam's apple. That gets them to fit in with everybody else I have printed, using that guideline.
In Gimp, you can Show Grids, which I set at 75 pixels apart for 300 dpi. Line up the minis so that their feet are on a line and re-size so that it is one inch to mid-neck.
It's an extra step, but a few years back I realized I was getting a range of sizes collected. OCD kicked in and I've rescaled ever since
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Post by squirmydad on Nov 5, 2019 13:40:56 GMT -9
Weird issue, sounds like a printer setting. Everything from Mayhem in Paper/One Monk are formatted as 300dpi pdf's at 8.5x11 inches (US letter) size. None of the scales have changed in six years and I use this graphic as a figure guide;
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Post by wyvern on Nov 5, 2019 13:46:33 GMT -9
It's worth saying too that adult humans aren't all the same height anyway, so some variation in mini size and bulk is entirely realistic, and some mini sets are deliberately designed that way. If you need to fit the minis to a very specific frame (you mentioned comparisons with the GW Warhammer cast minis, for instance), you could try simply adjusting the scaling factor for any mini sets in PDF formats if you don't feel comfortable making the kind of graphics program adjustments Vermin King noted. You may need to do some test prints to see what works better, however - maybe just changing by a couple of percent will help.
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Post by aaron on Nov 5, 2019 17:13:02 GMT -9
Hello everyone. I have a question or problem. When printing the paper minis, both from the download area, some from the forum, those that come on the Onemonk page to buy or another example from Antohammer, among others ... I do not get the measures of 28 mm. My reference is Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k, but I do not get the size of the minis to be similar or equal to those of Games Workshop. When comparing a skeleton or elf Onemonk, I was many smaller than an imperial shooter. Some help or advice to keep in mind so that its size is correct. Thank you. So most cases it's very hard to make a print that is completely perfect, especially since Games Workshops "scale" is all over the place. I mean they say it's 28mm but I have found their models will range between 28 to 32mm for the heroic stuff and now the new Intercessors are increasing the scale yet again. that being said you are correct most of the models made by the producers here are to small. I have spent a lot of time sizing up the models to fit GW standard. I have spent some time trying to make my models the GW size but like I said it's very difficult and depending on your printer that can mess things up significantly by when you fit the page or print to size can make a big difference. Try printing something I made to fit GW scale and see if it fits the right scale, if so then you are going to have to scale up the models you are trying to use from the forums to GW
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 5, 2019 18:40:37 GMT -9
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Post by goas77 on Nov 6, 2019 3:02:45 GMT -9
Hello everyone. I have a question or problem. When printing the paper minis, both from the download area, some from the forum, those that come on the Onemonk page to buy or another example from Antohammer, among others ... I do not get the measures of 28 mm. My reference is Warhammer both Fantasy and 40k, but I do not get the size of the minis to be similar or equal to those of Games Workshop. When comparing a skeleton or elf Onemonk, I was many smaller than an imperial shooter. Some help or advice to keep in mind so that its size is correct. Thank you. So most cases it's very hard to make a print that is completely perfect, especially since Games Workshops "scale" is all over the place. I mean they say it's 28mm but I have found their models will range between 28 to 32mm for the heroic stuff and now the new Intercessors are increasing the scale yet again. that being said you are correct most of the models made by the producers here are to small. I have spent a lot of time sizing up the models to fit GW standard. I have spent some time trying to make my models the GW size but like I said it's very difficult and depending on your printer that can mess things up significantly by when you fit the page or print to size can make a big difference. Try printing something I made to fit GW scale and see if it fits the right scale, if so then you are going to have to scale up the models you are trying to use from the forums to GW I printed the image as it is, and they leave almost equal to the GW scale, maybe taller at about 30 mm, since the elves can be left that way. I realized that hundreds of minis that I have measure about 25 mm more than 28 mm, and measure the height of the eyes, with a lot of variety with each other. It is a shame to see that it is not standard and they change. Thanks for your advice and help. I will review the applications that you have indicated to me to adjust the measurement or to make an impression of previous sketch to adjust the size.
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Post by goas77 on Nov 6, 2019 3:10:52 GMT -9
I will check the configuration, if I can improve something. Thank you.
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 6, 2019 4:33:35 GMT -9
There should be a setting for printing actual size, also. Probably under Advanced
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Post by goas77 on Nov 6, 2019 5:27:00 GMT -9
I took these quick photos to compare the measurements of a GW mini, the ones that Aaron left with those of other creators. The differences ar great, like this many. It makes me doubt if I stay with a maximun measure or redo them again. Sorry for the quality of a photos.
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Post by Vermin King on Nov 6, 2019 5:42:16 GMT -9
Is that the MMiP #18 Mythology chariot in the background?
Even in the late 70's/ early 80's, when we played D&D with metal miniatures, there was a substantial difference in the sizes and proportions of the miniatures. I don't think you will ever have a perfect match, but getting them closer to a match would be a nice goal
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Post by goas77 on Nov 6, 2019 5:59:03 GMT -9
Is that the MMiP #18 Mythology chariot in the background? Even in the late 70's/ early 80's, when we played D&D with metal miniatures, there was a substantial difference in the sizes and proportions of the miniatures. I don't think you will ever have a perfect match, but getting them closer to a match would be a nice goal The car is an adaptation that I made, of the chariot of Ben Hur of Antohammer, to expand units in an army of skeletons in 2.5 D. I have always had an interest in that unit for skeletons, I would give a lot of play against the elves. I think for now the skeleton car will stand until the entire army rescale.
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Post by goas77 on Nov 6, 2019 11:05:23 GMT -9
The minis of Hoards or those of the elven alliance or horde of undead, what measure are, 28 mm, 30 mm or 32 mm?
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Post by aaron on Nov 6, 2019 15:00:08 GMT -9
The minis of Hoards or those of the elven alliance or horde of undead, what measure are, 28 mm, 30 mm or 32 mm? the answer is yes, LOL !!! the scale will vary wildly depending on the actual model and art style of the artist. I tried really hard to make my models GW scale but after a while I just kind of gave up it's really hard. their scale is all over the place. I have found that squirmydad makes his models at 25 to 27mm D&D scale while Jim Hartmen makes his anywhere between 15mm to 28 mm depending on the model range also he makes them much bulkier than mine. so they don't always Jive well. It was a challenge for me to re create or add to the high elf collection and keep it in the same art style, here's an example this is the original Jim Hartmen High Elf Artillery here was my first attempt at modding it. this was my second and final attempt My art style isn't as blocky as Jim's so it was difficult for me to keep it the same, it was a great challenge though and I learned A LOT!! which was the point of it. I did the same thing with Dave Oakem's elk riders this didn't work as well as Dave's art is far more cartoony than mine and it created some interesting dichotomy issues but all in all I think it was a lesson well learned. As you can see my style is more realism and I like to make thin whispy lines.... this often creates problems for me that have to be over come with design I find that whenever I download someones models the first thing I have to do is toss it into Photoshop and either increase or decrees the scale .... though sometimes by doing this it just ruins the model so I just scrap it and start from scratch.
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shep
Eternal Member
Red Alert! Shields up! LENS FLARE!!!
Posts: 1,260
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Post by shep on Nov 6, 2019 15:51:26 GMT -9
Since I'm in the process to re-scale almost everything to 15 mm (at least for my own use), I try to get as much minis as possible onto one sheet. I use Photoshop for this, but GIMP would work just the same. I open the mini PDFs in the graphics program and transfer them one after the other to a new working sheet. While doing this, I re-scale them to 15 mm, ensuring they all have the right size (or at least look good with each other). The same could be done without re-scaling. It a little bit more work, but in the end, all minis have almost the same height (measuring from the feet to the eyeline, sometimes putting the eyes a little above or below that line for natural height variation)... I strongly advise getting GIMP, as it is free and quite easy to handle.
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Post by Antohammer on Nov 7, 2019 9:11:12 GMT -9
wait goas77 !!! .... i m here to save you to resize a miniature you should use the most simple software around..... (DRUMROLL).... MICROSOFT WORD!!!! you put the image file you want in a blank word page, then you add a simple square, resize the square to the size you need, for example you make the square 28mm that s around 1.1 inch (i think... i m not familiar with imperial system) .... (i do more than 28mm for non historical units), then enlarge the miniature using diagonal corner up untill the miniature eye is over the square top border and the base of the miniature as high as the square base border. then you delete the square symply!!! I do that to make my miniature rescale.... if you download my png you always see that they need to be rescaled.... that s becouse i make them this way and if you dont have microsoft word you can download the simplyest word like free program from internet.... (i suggest to buy a doodyty key from ebay... with 5 dollars you buy one... then after one year microsoft tells you that this key is not valid and you was cheated.... but the real cheater is you!!! BUAHAHAHAHAHAH EVIL LAUGHING .....) ......... :-D sorry for my doodyty english!!! ps i like that you are using my charriot!!!! i want to see the conversion when is complete!!!!!! :-D
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Post by aaron on Nov 7, 2019 10:22:12 GMT -9
wait goas77 !!! .... i m here to save you to resize a miniature you should use the most simple software around..... (DRUMROLL).... MICROSOFT WORD!!!! you put the image file you want in a blank word page, then you add a simple square, resize the square to the size you need, for example you make the square 28mm that s around 1.1 inch (i think... i m not familiar with imperial system) .... (i do more than 28mm for non historical units), then enlarge the miniature using diagonal corner up untill the miniature eye is over the square top border and the base of the miniature as high as the square base border. then you delete the square symply!!! I do that to make my miniature rescale.... if you download my png you always see that they need to be rescaled.... that s becouse i make them this way and if you dont have microsoft word you can download the simplyest word like free program from internet.... I hate Microsoft word, we have been enemies since the beginning! it's a vicious, nasty, no good, hateful program that's never done anything but cause me Paine and misery!! and now let me tell you how I really feel about it!! LOL!! seriously once you start using art programs (especially good ones) parsing programs like Word seem so LIMITED and hatefully restrictive. for me adding images to word is far more hateful than adding words to Photoshop. I have a really good plugin for Photoshop that allows it to function like a word program but still have the editing capabilities of an art program and I use Cs5 so it's super old and I own it, no monthly fees. I don't know why people still use word it's sooo evil!! LOL ok ok my ranting is over but still word uuuugh!! LOL
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Post by goas77 on Nov 7, 2019 10:39:12 GMT -9
wait goas77 !!! .... i m here to save you to resize a miniature you should use the most simple software around..... (DRUMROLL).... MICROSOFT WORD!!!! you put the image file you want in a blank word page, then you add a simple square, resize the square to the size you need, for example you make the square 28mm that s around 1.1 inch (i think... i m not familiar with imperial system) .... (i do more than 28mm for non historical units), then enlarge the miniature using diagonal corner up untill the miniature eye is over the square top border and the base of the miniature as high as the square base border. then you delete the square symply!!! I do that to make my miniature rescale.... if you download my png you always see that they need to be rescaled.... that s becouse i make them this way and if you dont have microsoft word you can download the simplyest word like free program from internet.... (i suggest to buy a doodyty key from ebay... with 5 dollars you buy one... then after one year microsoft tells you that this key is not valid and you was cheated.... but the real cheater is you!!! BUAHAHAHAHAHAH EVIL LAUGHING .....) ......... :-D sorry for my doodyty english!!! ps i like that you are using my charriot!!!! i want to see the conversion when is complete!!!!!! :-D Good idea is to use Word for rescaling, a simple and easy way. I use OpenOffice, I will try. Tell you that I love your miniatures, I follow them from the beginning, specifically the Amazons and the ice elves. I will show how the car looks.
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