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Post by labrat on Mar 23, 2011 2:05:00 GMT -9
It has been suggested to me, by someone who's opinion I have come to trust very much, that we perhaps should release model sets two armies at a time. By this I mean working on two opposing forces. One release might be human archers and then have a release of orc archers the next time, going back and forth between two opposing armies. I wanted to throw this out there to see if others agree with this sentiment or if you like what I am doing currently, which is to work on one army and get it fleshed out and then move on to the next army. Granted: if I had more designers helping me I would happily do multiple armies simultaneously, but since I am mostly doing it myself for the time being... what do you guys think?
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Post by gilius on Mar 23, 2011 6:32:09 GMT -9
To me it makes sense, at least until you have two complete armies that can oppose each other. That way people can start playing with, say, human vs. orc infantry, then add shooters to both sides and so on.
Furthermore, I'd imagine that having two "basic" armies (like infantry, shooters and cavalry) as soon as possible would be beneficial both for players of Bellicose and those interested in using the minis for other games.
Sure, people might always use the existing army against equal opponents but I'm not certain of the appeal to fantasy gamers.
Starting from the third army, there will already be two forces to fight against, so I guess this wouldn't be a concern anymore.
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Post by josedominguez on Mar 23, 2011 8:23:10 GMT -9
That's how I'd like to see it
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 23, 2011 9:21:58 GMT -9
Seems like a very good idea to get at least two complete armies this way. If Jim's elves and undead measure as "complete" armies than you are already there, or do they need some tweaking for Bellicose?
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Post by josedominguez on Mar 23, 2011 13:05:13 GMT -9
they need werewolves, variant zombie weapons and quite a few other options, but it's a really good start
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Post by emergencyoverride on Mar 24, 2011 8:21:00 GMT -9
What?!? Well, you already have two or almost 3 complete armies done for the game(Fey and Horde and tons of monsters!) so I wouldn't sweat it. Any army you put out now already has two opponents to choose from. Now if you start working on two armies at once it will take forever to finish one army. That would be even worse. I think you guys are doing fine and staying focused on one army instead of splitting your already small work time is the way to go. Nothing worse than having a half finished army, then if you change you'll have two armies that are pretty much worthless for a longer time. (Well not worthless, but you know what I mean. Not really playable because of the holes in the army list) ;D
For those that didn't realize that there two armies and many monster figures already for the game go here:http://sanitystudios.com/bellicose/paperMinis
They really are sweet!
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Post by gilius on Mar 24, 2011 10:21:13 GMT -9
What?!? Well, you already have two or almost 3 complete armies done for the game(Fey and Horde and tons of monsters!) so I wouldn't sweat it. Any army you put out now already has two opponents to choose from. Now if you start working on two armies at once it will take forever to finish one army. That would be even worse. I think you guys are doing fine and staying focused on one army instead of splitting your already small work time is the way to go. Nothing worse than having a half finished army, then if you change you'll have two armies that are pretty much worthless for a longer time. (Well not worthless, but you know what I mean. Not really playable because of the holes in the army list) ;D For those that didn't realize that there two armies and many monster figures already for the game go here:http://sanitystudios.com/bellicose/paperMinis They really are sweet! My mistake was assuming that the faeries were like "mercenary" units in other games, i.e. they can be added to other lists. If I had read the whole Races of Bellicose section I wouldn't had made the mistake (and by the way, now that I have, Faeries are really scary stuff in Bellicose ) [edit: so I stand by my opinion but since there are two armies, fleshing out the next one at a time isn't a concern.]
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 24, 2011 15:38:45 GMT -9
I think you've done enough of these figures that you have a good idea of what the finished product should look like when you are done.
Knowing your basic human ideal and your basic orc ideal, could you do Friend and Foe on the same page? Top row human, bottom orcs?
Or would it be better to have a basic set of soldiers of a race all on one page? sword, spear, bow, crossbow. I would think that the cheapskates of this world would just buy the basic set and have all their spearmen or whatever look the same.
Is this a question that has no definitive answer?
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Post by labrat on Mar 25, 2011 11:13:33 GMT -9
Thanks for everyone's input. It's true I have done two fantasy armies for Bellicose already, the Horde and Faeries. I want to go back to both of them to give some more variety at some point in the future, particularly with the Horde. I was more concerned about just having the playing pieces at the time than I was with creating variety. In addition there are the Elf and Undead armies which have a lot to them. I will need to add some specifics for Bellicose to those, and perhaps for other games as well to make them versitile, but they have a solid core.
I do like the idea of getting infantry, ranged, and cavalry type troops all done with an army first.
It's kind of strange. I went from having no variety in my troops to having tons of it so that it takes me forever to get an army done. I think I may try to find some middle ground. Perhaps my future model sets will not have so many of one kind, but rather have several different options for one troop type in a model set (i.e. 2-3 models per weapon option, to make a total of 8-12 figures).
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Post by revgunn on Mar 25, 2011 11:18:58 GMT -9
Wait, I had thought I read where you had hired up Ghostgirl and... lets see was it Ken? I thought you had some help on your armies.
In any case, you're doing well, and the stuff looks great. I'd love to help you out also, but I have a couple of issues about it. One, our styles are really different, and 2... well, I'm a bit laid up at the moment.
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Post by labrat on Mar 25, 2011 12:49:25 GMT -9
Well Ken has also had some issues of his own lately. In fact I think he is computerless for the time being.
I'm not sure how ghostgirl is doing. I think she is going to do some more western minis. I haven't bugged her about it. I'm still waiting for Nik to get the website switched over so we can have our shopping cart.
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Post by Parduz on Mar 25, 2011 13:12:01 GMT -9
I understand that Sanity want to support (and "push") Bellicose, and so there's its specific armies (just guessing, i don't know the game) but if the goal is to "grab" miniature player, whatever ruleset they use, i think that Horde and Faeries are not so needed by the majority of players. Elf and Undead are more common, and Jim already have done lots of humans (even if not as an army).
Talking about me I'd like to have a way to try any generic "high fantasy" ruleset, and so i'd be willing to buy miniature sets made like toy soldier box. I may buy two basic "box", one per faction, and test the ruleset with that few figures for a few dollars.
When Jim was selling his sets around 3-4$ i was waiting for Dwarfs. I needed somewhat like 10 figures to fight say 15 orcs... instead he was drawing tons of undeads, and tons of elfs, and then humans again. Actually i still have to see Dwarfs (in OneMonk style). Sure someone will need and like a full army done.... but while that full army is built, people like me is going buying used plastic dwarfs and used plastic orcs on ebay. Instead, with a "basic set" of, say, 10 poses per faction (2 swordsman, 2 archers, 2 pikers, a couple of commanders) who need just some figure is happy, and who need a full army can start printing and building it as well (with less pose variety, but playable). Then, releasing "expansion set" (all archers, all pikemens, etc.) will add the needed variety for the army players and will keep squad players hooked 'cause cool figures are always good and to see what's coming out next.
Hard though to explain, i hope to be understandable....
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 25, 2011 14:54:43 GMT -9
Sell skirmish sets and bundle them into armies when you have enough released? That could be a buisness model.
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Post by nikloveland on Mar 25, 2011 17:37:01 GMT -9
I'm still waiting for Nik to get the website switched over so we can have our shopping cart. Yeah, yeah... Slave master Aaron (wait have the tables turned!) I've actually been spending a lot of time on it which is why I've not been on the forums much lately. *mumbles off to work more on the website...*
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Post by josedominguez on Mar 26, 2011 2:06:31 GMT -9
The Bellicose weapon system uses descriptions like heavy and very heavy hand weapons, as a result it opens up lots of options for minis useful in other games..... for example a pack of elves with halberds, 2 handed swords and axes would simply be 'heavy weapons' in Bellicose, in warhammer you've got most of the High elf units covered, you could do that with say three variants of each giving lots of variety in the bellicose unit and acceptable (3 poses) in other games which have more specific weapon descriptions. E.g. a quick alteratation to the human spearmen and you've got halberdiers.
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Post by labrat on Mar 26, 2011 10:32:52 GMT -9
I'm still waiting for Nik to get the website switched over so we can have our shopping cart. Yeah, yeah... Slave master Aaron (wait have the tables turned!) I've actually been spending a lot of time on it which is why I've not been on the forums much lately. *mumbles off to work more on the website...* Sorry Nik, I wasn't trying to rail on you at all. I was simply stating that it is difficult for me to try to motivate/bug/harass the other designers since we can't really sell what they produce yet, thus making it more difficult for them to get paid. ...but I'll take any form of motivation I can get if it gets the website done faster.
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Post by stevelortz on Apr 2, 2011 14:34:59 GMT -9
I've started working on a human army using Jim's Arthurian knights as heavy cavalry, the Sanity Studios foot soldiers for... well, foot soldiers, and the Sanity Studios militia archers for fire power. I've got a set of home-brewed rules I've been using for decades, and I'm looking forward to rolling a few dice again!
I'm putting together some orc and goblin units from Jim's figures to use as bad guys.
I'm thankful for the work you guys are putting into this.
Have fun! Steve
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