Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 11:27:24 GMT -9
Hello! It is my first attempt with 30mm figures. They are not brand new, I took figures from Kartonowa Armia fantasy issues (KA15 and KA21 to be precise - as you can see here: www.kartonowefigurki.pl/sub-ka15.htmlThe idea was to start with Fantasy genre, and I supposed that "Elven Forest Ambush" set might be nice attempt So, why Elves, not history or sci-fi? 1. fantasy seems to be most popular, almost "standard" theme in RPG 2. Rhannon used KA15 cover and figures in his post so I am just following... :) 3. KA15 and KA21 figures have more "clear/simple" graphic style so perhaps they are more suited for rescalling/downsizing 4. why not...? :) Well, first things first - which figures and accessories/scenery should be included (sort of set's "program")? As there is "Ambush" in set titlle, there should be: -archers (various figures) -scouts -roques -some skirmishers / swordsmans perhaps? -commander / chief Plus, as (again according to tittle:) this is "Forest" Ambush, so some forest scenery elements should be included as well: -fallen trees -bushes -some rock? Set should also include some accessories, such as shields etc. which might be helpfull if you want to diversificate and "upgrade" your figures. Totally it should be something between 3-5 (A4 format) sheets with ca. 10-20 elements (figures, scenery, accessories) on each one As mentioned - It is my first attempt with downscalling KF/KA figures. Originally, they are ca.60mm tall and there is ca. 10-18 figures (which depends mostly from theme specifics, quantity of accessories) Firstly... after rescalling figures lost many details, textures, shades etc. (ie. they are not so visible) But then, now I CAN put a lot MORE figures and elements on one sheet! So now I can play with different poses, different weapons etc... not even mentioning various colour schemes - whatta big field for sheer imagination :) In fact this is quite funny, but also... quite time consuming!!! Then there is "black outline/border" thing... my opinion is that this is... simply ugly, but as I understood, its needed in order to make cutting process easier/smoother? OK, lets look for some already converted to 30mm scale figures and elements (of course in reality they all got the same scale, plus elements of scenery are bigger): There is no Commander - it is not ready yet... plus I got an idea to put black-and-white 2-sided figure to the forum and ask Forum Members to prepare their versions... hmm? Well - what do you think about this set? Do you like idea with various poses and weapons/equipment for the same basic figure? Do you like idea with separate accessories, which should be first cutted, glued and only afterwards assembled with figures? What is your opinion according "scenery" figures? I will highly appreciate any kind of feedback - all your comments and suggestions... as my goal is to find best solutions and figure out how to convert my 60mm figures. Also, if you will find any errors, mistakes (even typos within this post :), pleae do not hesitate inform and correct me! Ah... LAST BUT NOT LEAST! I am going to publish this set FREE for Cardboard-Warriors Forum Members :) (probably I will simply prepare dedicated page on my website and will publish here in Members Area direct links/passwords?) Ooops... quite a looong post... :) BTW: I saw on some forums that peoples are using something like "TL;DR" (or something similar) and then some kind of resume, can anybody enlighted me what is the exact meaning of this TL;DR acronim, as (shame on me :) can't figure it out myself? Regards, /mesper
|
|
|
Post by revgunn on Jan 2, 2012 12:28:52 GMT -9
TL;DR stands for "too long, didn't read" which I personally find a bit rude. I don't see it much at all on this forum.
I am a big fan of high detail. I like the way your re-scaling is turning out. The artwork is great. I'm not seeing a lot of lost detail. I also draw and color my figures at 60mm to start with, then scale down when I share them. I think mine are a bit muddy. Yours are not.
I haven't done much war gaming with my miniatures, I use them for RPG play. So, I don't have a preference as to the same figure with multiple colors and the like.
I like the scenery elements being included. Its a good "bonus" type thing.
The black border.... yes, it helps with aligning the sides of the figures. I've considered a dark gray (50% gray) for bordering as well, since the black looses my black hats. I've gotten used to black, and it does make your figures really pop out.
I'm glad you came over and joined us.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 15:05:22 GMT -9
Two first sheets are almost ready (I am still playing with general page layout, testing how many/where/how figures and accessories can be placed etc...) Output will be in 300DPI PDF format. But there is one question according paper format - should I stick with A4 standard (which is used mostly in Europe) or with some US legal or perhaps this is not relevant at all? I think also that I will have to thicken a little bit figures black border/outline - not sure yet, some real-cutting test would be necessary (the same issue with... how to say... base mounting tiles? ie. those parts below the figure, which are glued with base -is there any "standard" for this?) The last (so far :) question is would it be helpful and/or needed to add rectangular box around the each figure (hope not:) ? OK, here are previews: Perhaps at first glance figures are very repeatable and differs only with colours, but please look carefully (helmets for example) -there are small changes here and there (OK, mostly on 2nd sheet) And there is another one question (err... obviously previous "last one" wasn't last one ;) - what do you think about this kind of diversifications - meaning is it OK or perhaps you do not care for such (too) small changes and replacing weapon and colours would be just enough? Oh... and one more thing... can somebody suggest where I can read more about so called "automated cutting machines" (vide RoboCutter) - ie. some preferably not technical but plain language compendium or forum discussion - which one from market available products is recognized as best choice (quality and/or price wise) and is it worth to prepare sheet's compatible with most popular machines? ...just asking, I know that Mr. Google knows almost everything - but I would prefer to spare some hours and concentrate on figures... ;P
|
|
|
Post by Rhannon on Jan 2, 2012 15:12:22 GMT -9
Hi mesper, I'm glad to see you here. I'm only a collector and sometimes a customer but I haven't any skills that can help you. I have never found in this forum . It's ... it's only total lack of netiquette. If someone is not interested about a thread does not read and does not answer. A "TL;DR" reply is just nonsense imho. - I think that in english is "rogue", not "roque". Sorry - a black outline/border is ugly but can helps to cut figures. 28/32 mm. figures are half of a paper soldier. And not all peple use automatic cutting machines ( and they need appropriate files for every figure's sheet ) - Scenery and accesories are always welcome. But often they are are considered "bonus". Is the amount of the figures that people watching. 8/12 figures for a normal set. But there may be larger sets. - RPG-gamers and wargamers have, sometimes, different needs. For a RPG ( and a skirmish wargame ) subjects' variety ( 1/2 archers, 2/3 swordsmen, 1 leader, 1/2 rogues, 1 mage ... ) in one set is enough, from a tactical wargame variety that needs is in the same unit ( 4/5 archers, possibly a bit different, 1 hero, 1 leader, possibly a musician, eventually a standard-bearer ... all archers ) - different poses, different weapons, different colors, accessories to diversify and upgrade figures are very usefull. Ciao Edit: I write before your second post.
|
|
|
Post by sammo on Jan 2, 2012 16:03:58 GMT -9
Yes, the thicker black border is for cutting and then if the figure is properly edged with the black marker they look much better on the gaming table.
This would also be why, in my opinion, it is better to not have bowstrings (or at least if I were building these miniatures I would cut the bowstrings off).
I love these figures, but without the thick black boarder I would feel like I had to mod them myself to add it before I printed them. Try downloading and building one of the forum hoards and try building one of the minis that you have shown here and I think you would see why most of us prefer the border.
As for the tab at the bottom, when assembled the tabs should be about 4mm tall and about 15mm wide.
I do like the look of these minis though, awesome look for elves. Keep up the good work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2012 16:50:17 GMT -9
Thank you all for quick and constructive feedback! >>Rhannon --------------- Rogue - ohh... right and thank you very much! (Heh... funny thing is, that during writing I was trying to avoid "rouge" as it is commonly seen in WoW :) BTW - I got some scans of absolutely AMAZING Paper Soldiers made (drawings, not scans :) by some Italian artist. They are kinda "old fashioned" and are very different from typical "gaming" figures - but I like the graphic style very, very much. I will post them in the other one thread, when you mentioned European paper soldiers tradition. >>Revgunn --------------- Hmm... I ll have to check how dark gray border looks - might be interesting, thus as it seems black one is more used/popular Scenery as Bonus - OK I can live with this but I am little surprised because for me scenery is helping a lot with immersion. So personally I would prefer even less figures and more scenery (imagine all those rams, scorpions, ballistas in Medieval series :) But that is just me. >>Sammo ------------- According borders - as I mentioned in previous post I also got impression that something is screwed here and borders looks (for this scale) too thin, so this is what I will correct without any doubts. Regarding bowstrings - what can I say - good point... So probably will have to rid them off and made new borders. In fact some of KF/KA Soldier Figures model makers replaces bowstrings with thin black... I forgot the word (from suing kit :) Exactly as shown in gallery: www.kartonowefigurki.pl/sub-gal-jak01.htmlThey also replacing bows and spears etc. but without any doubts its much easier to use different kind of substitutes and materials/techniques with substantially larger 60mm figures. Bottom tab - thanks for exact data - will check dimensions on my sheets again and probably adjust them. --- Well... it seems that I was too quick and many aspects/parts of figures and sheets should be reworked :))) Thank you ALL once again! If anybody got some suggestions or ideas or impressions - I will highly appreciate your feedback!
|
|
|
Post by cowboyleland on Jan 2, 2012 18:58:21 GMT -9
Welcome!
The figures look great. I like that I can stick the sheilds on separately and that there are variations in the helmets.
Legal size paper is not the standard in North America. The most common paper size is "Letter" and it is 8.5"x 11" (212mmx 275mm) If you keep your figures in about a 20cm x 26cm area they should print fine for both Europe and North America.
Cheers
|
|
|
Post by onemonkeybeau on Jan 2, 2012 18:59:24 GMT -9
Mesper!
Great stuff here!
There is nothing I can add to what the guys above have already said.
I'd just like to say that I'm glad you're here and look forward to more 30mm releases!
onemonkeybeau
|
|
|
Post by Sirrob01 on Jan 2, 2012 22:27:15 GMT -9
Likewise love the look of these and hope to see more I'm a +1 on the black border
|
|
|
Post by labrat on Jan 3, 2012 13:28:40 GMT -9
Hey Mesper,
Very nice artwork. I like it a lot.
I will +1 what the others have said. Thicker on the black borders. Bowstrings are a nightmare to cut at 30mm. And for me at least 8.5x11 in. is best for pdf size.
I'm pretty impressed how well your figures scale down to 30mm. They still look really good. And I love the shield options. I look forward to seeing more of what you come up with.
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 3, 2012 14:10:02 GMT -9
Does anyone remember where the post is that explains the way to set up print area so that things will print in either 8 1/2X11 and A4? Or know off the top of their heads?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 17:03:44 GMT -9
Updated sheet #1 is ready - whats new / changed: >>Borders/outlines now thicker (ca. x2 compared to previous one) but if you find it STILL to thin - let me know, so I can thickening it even more - don't know why but I am very... reluctant regarding this black border >>Bottom tabs changed according to dimensions provided by Sammo (4mm x 15mm). It is kinda strange looking with wider figures, especially with scenery elements... is it OK for sure? Or better stick with full length tab? >>some minor changes: bigger accessories/shields some archers are also changed (vide red arrows) subtle variations with colors etc... +additional 5th archer figure Perhaps I should wait for your comments/PDF tests before starting work with other sheets - and browse this awesome website dedicated to old paper soldiers linked by Rhannon in the meantime Cheers /Mesper
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 3, 2012 17:47:58 GMT -9
Those are wonderful. Yes, on wide pieces, extending the base width is acceptable
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 22:59:54 GMT -9
Still testing / playing with outlines... :) =>> So, which version do you prefer: A. or B. ? Another issue - after posting previous update (vide preview and PDF) I recognized that accessories (shields) are without outlines at all. I think that they should have them with exactly the same parameters=thickness as figures (LOL... compatibility issues with paper minis :) BTW: sheet #3 with rogues, is almost ready. I skipped sheet #2 with archers, because I'm not comfortable with bowstrings, or, to be more precise, with their outlines. Frankly speaking I don't like both versions (with and without bowstrings)... but there is rather no option - archers are obligatory in ambush so probably I will gamble and rely on RNG (droping the coin :)
|
|
|
Post by Parduz on Jan 5, 2012 0:17:52 GMT -9
If i were you, i'd remove the string completly. Is an hassle to cut, and does not add "details" to the mini. About tabs, i'd go with long tabs. They can be cut to the desired size if needed. And about the "holes", i'd go with the black filled ones. The ones who like to cut the hole can do it anyway, the ones which don't does not need to use a marker.
As you're already modding the drawings, do you think that removing the ground from the figure feet is too hard?
Nice job, anyway. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by Rhannon on Jan 5, 2012 2:48:17 GMT -9
... Frankly speaking I don't like both versions (with and without bowstrings)... but there is rather no option - archers are obligatory in ambush so probably I will gamble and rely on RNG (droping the coin :) I'm not an artist. I haven't skills. I'm only a compulsive collector. I like when someone asks for opinions or preferences but in the end I think that an author ( proffesional or not ), after asking, should do as he prefer. As he likes. Only in this way, a good work can be a great work. When it likes to the artist. PS: I'm not in hurry so quietly wait your e-mail.
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 5, 2012 7:33:09 GMT -9
I like these a lot. One of the things about the 'holes' is that you can limit them by repositioning the figure slightly. The small hole on the elvan rogue could be eliminated entirely if the arm was positioned slightly closer to the body. If the 'hole' is in front of the body or leg, then you don't have to figure whether it is better to leave a border or fill in. You don't have that choice with many of the larger holes.
|
|
|
Post by glennwilliams on Jan 5, 2012 7:53:23 GMT -9
I'm in the no bowstring camp. It's just too difficult to make them look convincing. Plus, at "tablevision" (as Mel used to say) range, you wouldn't see them anyway.
As to the holes--not too worried about the one in the lower part of the figure, but repositioning his left arm as VK suggested eliminates those two holes.
Then again, I trim off the tabs and slide the figure into a base trim to have just two upright "holders" or just glue them flush.
|
|
|
Post by Dagger on Jan 5, 2012 13:32:56 GMT -9
I like B with the voids filled in. I think that approach gives the modeller options... they can leave the voids there or cut them out if they want. With them being filled in black I think they look perfectly fine left in and it makes cutting and gluing a lot easier.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 14:07:35 GMT -9
Please take a look at some new figures from incoming sheet #4 This time there is NO bowstrings at all AND all "holes" are filled with black :) Mounted Elven Warriors ------------------------------- I used couple of old figures like Winged Unicorn (so I got strip him from wings and add new tall :) and Elven Beast Rider plus added some details, new equipment and started modding, playing with different poses and colors - it was quite funny task, have to admit, and hope that you will enjoy results :) Question: Do you like mounted figures, are they usable in-game? Squad Commander ------------------------- It's a brand new figure, dedicated to this set! In fact, She is looking somehow like Japanese Samurai, due to the some armor elements and katana sword, but who knows, maybe Elves visited Islands Of Rising Sun somewhere in time? :) Scout Beast master ------------------------- Another "standard" Scout variation. She is jumping from rock/cliff with Sacred/Magic Black Dagger (or whatever you name it :) being supported by her tamed pet (perhaps I should name her "Pet master" but Beast master sounds a way better, isn't it? :) This is a "tall" figure due to the "earth" and rock but it suited well to the whole sheet layout - dunno if this kind of figures are wellcomed by gamers, what's your opinion? On a side note: I know then not everybody likes any "earth" under the figures feet - but I found it quite good looking and more realistic plus it's very flexible solution - I can draw/arrange different poses this way (and remember, that I'm more used to less-forgiving scales). Well - here comes full sheet preview. There are also "standard" Scouts (however some of them looks more like Skirmishers or Swordsmans). Now, there is no more excuse for me - will have cope with bowstrings on previous sheets... I'm planning to finish the whole set till Monday - but please test PDF which was linked before (quite heavy file, I know and will try to optimize it) so if there are some errors / problems with sizing and/or printing or whatever so I will be able to correct them before I start assembling other sheets. Cheers
|
|
|
Post by cowboyleland on Jan 6, 2012 14:27:38 GMT -9
The only note I would make would be that there will often be times in the game when the Beastmaster will want to be someplace while the "beast" is needed somewhere else, especially to give a flanking bonus. It would be better to have the beast on a separate base.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 14:33:35 GMT -9
It would be better to have the beast on a separate base. Good idea! There is some free space on this sheet - should be enough for the separate beast
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 6, 2012 15:07:46 GMT -9
This is a very exciting line of figures. I'm glad you are enjoying doing these. I know we are enjoying watching the process.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 22:26:25 GMT -9
Done (separate beast) I made a few minor changes - down sloping tall, darker, more "dangerous" color and generally Beast is larger then the one with Scout And especially for Parduz - "Groundless" figure :) If was going to write, that if I would fill hole between her legs with black color, then some parts of shoes wouldn't be visible.. but fortunately realized how weird it sounds ;) Well, of course I could equip her with some fancy color shoes (like Laboutin's ones, with red bottoms... but hey, they are too expensive for Forest Squad Commander :)) Another thing - how make such a jumping Best (without redrawing legs - but anyway, now they are more or less anatomically correct) without any ground (which in fact is used for some feeling of symmetry but mostly only for attaching bottom tab in this case) So I think, that at least for some time I will stay with "grounded" versions.
|
|
|
Post by stevelortz on Jan 6, 2012 23:06:46 GMT -9
I like the "grounded" version of the figures. Maybe because the ground makes them seem more like traditional paper soldiers rather than Games Workshop plastic figures in paper. It also seems that the ground work allows you to draw more dynamic poses.
Thank you very much!
Have fun! Steve
|
|
|
Post by cowboyleland on Jan 7, 2012 12:58:03 GMT -9
I didn't say anything about the armour that leaves some vital areas unarmoured, because there is already a whole thread on that you could check out, but I've got to wonder about putting heals on a warrior. Just sayin'. Ya, I'm sayin'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2012 16:04:24 GMT -9
I didn't say anything about the armour that leaves some vital areas unarmoured, because there is already a whole thread on that you could check out, but I've got to wonder about putting heals on a warrior. Just sayin'. Ya, I'm sayin' Better now? HEAVY armored FOOT soldier
|
|
|
Post by Rhannon on Jan 8, 2012 2:00:41 GMT -9
imho ... I prefer beastmaster with and without beast. I prefer an elven rogue too in dark ( dark/dark gray/black as assassin ) I don't prefer this: but first version. ( only for example ) like these: ... And all, thousands, Mord siths' personal interpretations. For me, but this is just a personal opinion, complete and realistic historical integrity is perfect for historical figures. For fantasy themes ( fantasy, sci-fi, horror ... ) realistic integrity isn't all. I prefer a personal visual from autor. Ciao
|
|
|
Post by Parduz on Jan 8, 2012 14:21:43 GMT -9
HEAVY armored FOOT soldier LOL!!!
|
|
|
Post by okumarts on Jan 8, 2012 16:15:23 GMT -9
|
|