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Post by Parduz on Sept 6, 2012 14:16:23 GMT -9
This is a sort of "beta version" of the "dwarven national anthem", for the MUD i'm playing (as a Dwarf, obviously). The music, the lyrics are by the singer (another player), while i've done all the orchestration, the arrangment and the final mixing. The plans are to add more voices (the singer is able to change his timbre ) and then to add some other instrument (still avoiding any string and wood, as we feel they are not so "dwarvish" . What i'm seeking for are honest opinion about how it sounds now, and perhaps some suggestion about the "sound treatment" (voice compression, overall mixing etc) if someone have that kind of skills/experience Thanks
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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 6, 2012 18:55:29 GMT -9
first: I think you are both freaks for putting this much thought into an RPG. But putting this much thought into an RPG makes you MY kind of freaks ;D Secondly: I love it! I don't understand the words ( One Christmas song is all the Italian I know) but I love the sound of anvils echoing through the caverns with the horns. Bellissimo! ( if I spelled it right)
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Post by nikloveland on Sept 7, 2012 12:13:35 GMT -9
That sounds really good! I'd try and make the voice more clear so it doesn't blend into the background so much. Other than that, I think it has an awesome melody. Really captures the feeling I have of a dwarf.
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Post by imnntt on Sept 7, 2012 14:14:06 GMT -9
Nick's right, you need to raise the levels on all the vocals. The main vocal part was being drowned out by the music and you couldn't hear the backing vocals until the end. You might want to keep the main voice and one that's an octave below it (to make the main vocals sound fuller) and the raise the higher vocal harmonies slowly at the end to create a crescendo. (which may be what you were trying to do and that's why they were more audible at the end) Other than that, WOW the fact that your making your own soundtrack for the game. My hat's off to you.
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Post by dcbradshaw on Sept 7, 2012 17:13:12 GMT -9
This is great, good job both you and the vocalist.
He has a lovely voice, and I agree with the others that the vocal volume is a little low, but I think it's more of his tone blending in with the bassy instruments. Some EQ would go a long way in making the enunciation pop, I would personally try boosting the mids and the lower high frequencies.
I think there's perhaps slightly too much reverb on the steel and anvil percussion throughout, though it may be due to the youtube compression, but it's almost phasing a little, and makes it sound like a cheap mono sample, especially when compared to the other percussive incidentals like the cymbals. I see what you're trying to do with it, as if it's resounding through a cavern or something equally dwarfish, but I would try bringing that back to the forefront somehow, pull off the reverb a little and maybe slightly more volume... It could be that the heavy verb from that track is also helping to muddy the vocals a little.
Now that I think of it, maybe substitute a gong sound for the crash? See if you can find a sample that's not too Asian-sounding... BONNNNNG--with a long envelope and sustain.
I like the stereo/pan effects throughout, not enough people play with that.
The chord progress is really great, especially in the chorus, fantastic resolution, especially in the third measure. This is pretty good synth masking, especially the horns, which are notoriously unrealistic-sounding as synth. Is that a VST? It's pretty good for MIDI.
The supporting vocal line in the chorus is too quiet, I feel like you have to work to pick it out, and it's too good to have so low. In fact, I only just now really noticed it, after 2-3 listens. I think you should just not be subtle and go more forte on both times through.
The key change is perfect into the 2nd refrain, but I think the singer needs to step up there with the emphasis, more accent, maybe more staccato, almost like spitting the words--marcato on the downbeats. It needs emphasis, it's the second repetition of the theme; why repeat it if it's not to make sure everybody knows you mean it?
He does pick it up a little on the last two lines in the manner which I'm suggesting, but I think it needs more. Dwarven strength, stubbornness! My song resounds, dammit! Then really just burst into the 2nd chorus--hold out the aaah vowel on the that last scorrera, and tie it to the first note of the chorus with a crescendo:
il sui sangue a fuimi scorreraaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAADRUIN-AG-GHITARAAAAAN...
Also consider adding an additional instrument, maybe something high, like a sweeping string, whole notes over the last chorus. Something to add to the layers and add drama.
Are you dead-set on keeping it solely symphonic? I'm hearing in my head, especially in the second chorus, a kind of driving log-style synth bass, or some kind of oscillating chuff maybe, doing eighth-notes along with the low strings. It might add to the "fantasy" feeling of the anthem to add some kind of more modern instrument voice toward the end.
And I think the final ending notes should sustain and fade, especially that big low horn sound but also the vocal lines--hold it out for a long time raise the reverb as it fades out to silence.
All of the above is solely my opinion: this cut is really great as it is, I commend you and would love to hear more.
Can I ask what you use to multitrack and sequence?
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Post by grendelsmother64 on Sept 7, 2012 18:18:05 GMT -9
Any way you could give us the translated lyrics? This is too cool for words!
GM
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Post by Parduz on Sept 8, 2012 0:25:23 GMT -9
WOW Thanks to all And thanks for all the suggestions. I agree that the voices are not so porminent. I've not the "theory" behind sound mixing, and not the right gears (i'd need hearphones or speakers that will not "color" the sounds, as example). So, mixing a song where pretty everything sound in the same range become an hard task Anyway i'll whip the singer to sing other voices and see what i can do. On the details: He has a lovely voice, and I agree with the others that the vocal volume is a little low, but I think it's more of his tone blending in with the bassy instruments. Some EQ would go a long way in making the enunciation pop, I would personally try boosting the mids and the lower high frequencies. Noted, and i'll try. The voice had a major problem: a "hiss" (perhaps the singer PC) which is present on the whole three track. I hade to apply a noise gate to cut it in the silent part, and then had to cut some of the high frequencies. Sure this helped in removing "brillance" from it, but thru the reeverb that "hissing" become prominent... I dunno if there other solutions... i'm just "guessing" what to do given my low sound-theory knowledge. I think there's perhaps slightly too much reverb on the steel and anvil percussion throughout, though it may be due to the youtube compression, but it's almost phasing a little, and makes it sound like a cheap mono sample, especially when compared to the other percussive incidentals like the cymbals. Actually.... it IS a cheap mono sound. I searched for similar sound for a whole day, and without looking at commercial things, this was more or less the best i could get for free (best means "the best compromise" between the sample itself, the variation of it, and the usability). My efforts bring me to have the "anvil hits" separated on two tracks, panned 50% left and right (as if it was two anvils players) then add reverb and pull up the "stereo separation". Dunno how else i could treat that sounds. I see what you're trying to do with it, as if it's resounding through a cavern or something equally dwarfish, but I would try bringing that back to the forefront somehow, pull off the reverb a little and maybe slightly more volume... It could be that the heavy verb from that track is also helping to muddy the vocals a little. I'll try to lesser his reeverb and see what it sounds like. This is pretty good synth masking, especially the horns, which are notoriously unrealistic-sounding as synth. Is that a VST? It's pretty good for MIDI. Almost everything comes from the "Squidfont" soundfont, while the Tuba and is a single insrument soundfont. There's not "synths", technically, just samplers. Which also gives me some more troubles 'cause they're not perfectly "tuned" and, while a slight detune makes them sounds real, some samples (they are multisampled on the various notes) just "clashes" too much (the song tail is was pain, as i have hit that notes) Also consider adding an additional instrument, maybe something high, like a sweeping string, whole notes over the last chorus. Something to add to the layers and add drama. I was trying to use only brasses and "horns", so i'd avoid any strings intrument and also most of the woods. I plan to add some metal flute or/and an ocarina when i'll have the other voicing the singer will (hopefully) sing. Are you dead-set on keeping it solely symphonic? I'm hearing in my head, especially in the second chorus, a kind of driving log-style synth bass, or some kind of oscillating chuff maybe, doing eighth-notes along with the low strings. It might add to the "fantasy" feeling of the anthem to add some kind of more modern instrument voice toward the end. Yes I'd stay on the only-symphonic. I've done other "fantasy" themes with a distant distorted guitar and modern drums and bass, but while i like it, i feel it "wrong" for a classical-fantasy setting like this one. And I think the final ending notes should sustain and fade, especially that big low horn sound but also the vocal lines--hold it out for a long time raise the reverb as it fades out to silence. That's a technical problems. The soundfonts does not contains "loops": i mean that (strings apart) every blow instrument ends. I'd have to tamper with the looping myself, and it's a task i'd avoid. I tricked a bit by adding new notes on the tails of the others, by playing with the velocity to mask the new "blow", but i can't hold it too much. Can I ask what you use to multitrack and sequence? FLStudio is the only paid thing. Then some GB of free sounfonds and VST (reeverbs, compressors, etc). I'd link this thread at the singer, so he will read your suggestions. Any way you could give us the translated lyrics? Hard to do and keeping the "colour" of the words. Tried with google, then hand-maded. Dunno about "Resounds", or "Rings".... the idea is that you hear it from long distance Resounds a chant among the mountains when the dwarves climb to the job. Resounds a chant and to each verse on the rocks the picks clash. Resounds a chant in the taverns while the entire Landmar is sleeping already. Resounds a chant and also tonight Kurt and rivers of beer will flow [Chorus] Druin-ag-Ghitaran Resounds a chant carried by the echoes of the forges deep down. Resounds a chant and at his rythm strong steel the blacksmith will quench. Resounds a chant it is a war song if the enemy besieged the city. Resounds a chant and tonight his blood will flow in rivers. Thanks to all!
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Post by Reivaj on Sept 8, 2012 6:30:56 GMT -9
Sound Great Parduz!
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Post by dcbradshaw on Sept 8, 2012 8:21:46 GMT -9
I'll thumb through my percussion loops, I might have some industrial files that may be suitable higher-fidelity replacements. Ah, then I'm doubly impressed, I would have never guessed it, excellent job with sequence selection and blending. If you're wanting to expand your options some, might I suggest Garritan Instant Orchestra. It's not super-expensive, and is kind of a combo of soundfont and VST; structured orchestral samples you can play and sequence through MIDI. Some of them are really, really good, listen to the samples on that page. That will probably be perfect, and cover the kind of theme I'm hearing in my head. One of those "you don't realize you're missing it until it's not there" things. Then I'll also look to see if I can find a sample that you might be able to use to spoof that sound, some kind of a horn-sounding low drone, I'll see what I've got and you can play with it. I may also have some free VST installed that could have the right sound, if anything for just that final note to make the ending not so abrupt. If you'd be willing to email me some raw files, I'd be happy to try some mastering for you with my setup. Heck, if you weren't in Italy, I'd invite you to my home to use my booth!
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Post by dcbradshaw on Sept 8, 2012 9:13:20 GMT -9
DropboxTake a look through those. Some are full-on loops and probably wouldn't be appropriate as-is, but you might be able to chop some good industrial-sounding snips from them. A few of those are licensed, but I don't personally mind (as long as you don't go making tons of money off this cut ;D) I'll continue to look at my collection to see if I can find some appropriate sustained brass sound for the ending.
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