|
Post by Vermin King on Sept 17, 2020 12:40:41 GMT -9
I still want to do 'San Zandegola' for the Venice collection, but it has been somewhat hard to get into design work lately. It's a classic Latin church, unlike the much older San Giacomo di Rialto, so should be easier to design, but first I wanted to see if the front would fit at scale on one page, and it does! Kind of. As there is a building directly in front of it, there are no true front views, but in the closest view to capturing a front view, when I square things up, the priest in the doorway talking to the kids is 1 inch from his feet to his shoulders It isn't wide enough in that shot though. If I use artistic license and have the doors go to the top of the doorway (without the panels at the top, but inside the door frame), I should be able to shorten it and still look right. It's a start anyway
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Sept 17, 2020 17:48:19 GMT -9
Google satellite view and Google street view are very helpful on this. They have determined that the floorplan is pretty much the same as when it was built, but the facade was changed during a 1703 remodel (which is when the campanile was added), but it is obvious that the 'new' facade has changed since then. That door is on the west end. The half gable on the south side is actually a full gable on the north side. Google street view can actually pick up the north wall between the west end and the gable. The building to the northeast is an annex of a natural history museum. I have yet to find any views of the east end. There is a small alley that appears to go between two buildings that dead ends at the church, but Google street does not give a view down that alley. It doesn't really pertain, but I find it interesting that to the west of the campo is a canal and to the west and slightly north is a silk velvet factory founded in 1700 that still hand weaves silk velvet. It isn't cheap.
To the east, and just south of the main building for the museum is a soccer field. I somehow doubt that it was there during the Venetian Republic
And yes, this is one of the churches Napoleon deconsecrated. The artwork was sold off or taken back to France and the building was turned into a warehouse. During the 1800s it was reconsecrated, but then it changed hands to become the Russian Orthodox church during the late 1900s
As I look at the St. Jovan Kaneo church, I see that I could extend the walls from the gabled portion, then use the gables, but adjusting to lose the dome/cupola, I'll have to adjust some things but a good portion of the geometry could carry over
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Sept 18, 2020 5:43:30 GMT -9
Had some fun with Google maps and exploring the history of this church. During the restoration that started in 1945, the only access was through 'the convent adjacent'. During its history, I knew that the church was under the offices of two different groups of monks at different times, which would indicate a monastery. After Napoleon turned it into a warehouse, it seems that the monastery continued to operate and was still in use. Not sure when it became a convent. So the question that came to mind was whether the buildings to the south were the convent. Google maps answered that question It was on the east end of the building. Not a very big thing. I was wondering if it connected to the rather plain building that abuts the church, but it doesn't seem to. In that photo, to the northwest you can see the Tessitura Luigi Bevilacqua silk velvet location. On the canal you can see the Muffler Shop. Muffler like clothing, not auto repair I was wondering what the story was on the square area in the Campo where the pavers change pattern. Evidently that was the location of the original campanile
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Sept 19, 2020 7:58:49 GMT -9
From Google Street, I picked up some more walls on the alley side. Can't get to anything on the east end, except that I can see the path from the monastery to the church which indicates a door on the south side of the east face. I think the west facade will be 3d like Canon's Florence cathedral or some of the Secanda models or the original Mission San Diego de Alcala from papermodelsonline (a company that I would never buy from. They caused Chip at FiddlersGreen a whole bunch of legal problems at one time with a cease and desist order. Chip won in court, but that really irks me). Working east from the facade, the nave and aisle portion of the building should be easy. Because of the tower, the south transept will be a little tricky. The tower itself is pretty straight forward. The area with the apse should be easy. The tower is 66 feet tall, so at least I have a number so that I can play with getting the other dimensions. This was a church that had an annual visit from the Doge on the Holy Day of Salome's Dance, so one would think it would be important enough that someone would post dimensions. That original campanile would have been huge.
|
|
|
Post by monstersbtm on Oct 2, 2020 3:50:23 GMT -9
Ehi VK! If you need, next time i go to Venezia i can take some pictures of the church for you. just let me know if it helps you and what kind of photos can be handy (front, lateral view, comparison to people..)
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Oct 2, 2020 4:44:34 GMT -9
At this point, I am making a best guess at the east end ( the courtyard from the old monastery/abbey ) and the east end of the north side. I don't know if you can actually get to a place where pictures can be taken though. But thanks for thinking of me. Google Street was a big help for the brick and the north windows and door. On the facade, added in the renovation in the early 1700s, I still want to do that as a more 3d part. There is no way I can calculate the length of the top of the curved portion, so I am just going to have a strip of the proper width, to be cut off at the proper length after applying to the facade.
I mentioned Google Street again. I took a 'walk' around La Fenice last weekend. Sotoporteggo's, canals, narrow streets. Delightful hour or so just looking around.
One of the theaters I was looking at supposedly used part of the old city walls in its structure. I wonder what the city walls would have looked like and where they actually ran. And when they were demolished. I just hadn't thought about Venice having city walls anywhere
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Oct 2, 2020 8:32:39 GMT -9
I think I am going to look at the 'old city walls' reference as tourist tripe. The theaters I researched were all between San Marco and San Samuele, and the only city walls were around an old castle east of San Marco and around the Arsenale. Sort of like any time there is a tower, someone jumped off it. Usually not the case. I tried to rationalize a 'city wall' that wasn't a defensive wall or a sea wall, and I can think of nothing that would apply. The theater may have incorporated an old wall, but probably not a city wall
|
|
|
Post by monstersbtm on Oct 2, 2020 9:29:35 GMT -9
I'll manage to go to Venice next week (family permitting). About Venetian walls, I did a little research: in Rialto and San marco (the oldest settled areas in the lagoon) there actually were walls. There were built around x to Xi century.
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Oct 2, 2020 10:25:38 GMT -9
monstersbtm, check your messages EDIT -- I am actually on hold for the lighter edging stonework along the canal edges. I keep thinking I am about to get to what I want only to find railings or people or no view that isn't blurred. I could also use Venetian brickwork in various stages of deterioration. And anything you find interesting
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Oct 5, 2020 4:16:18 GMT -9
Well, wasn't sure where to put this, but monstersbtm, you mentioned the 'Altane' in Glenn's thread ('Altana' was a nightmare on an internet search). I was looking at various neighborhood views in my photos and I don't see very many. Are these the reason we see several doghouse-looking structures on the buildings? Were these built to house stairs to access the Altane? I have noticed a couple that seem to extend from gable windows, as well. I don't know enough about these
|
|
|
Post by monstersbtm on Oct 5, 2020 21:29:55 GMT -9
Always a pleasure to be helpful. I see that a research like this can be a nightmare for a non italian speaker... Altana (pl. altane) is the roof porch that you find on a lot of venetian roofs. They currently are used as little gardens, to grow flowers or so but in the past they were where laundry was put to dry and where venetian women dried they hair when dyeing it (it seems to be that blond hair dye was the ultimate fashion in Venice at the time). Usually altane are accessible by dormers. Quote from Venice Wiki "L'Altana is a woodden place on the top of the venetian building Where the venetian ladies used to get blonde or almost blonde under the sun (I will not tell you the trick, but the colour is still called “biondo veneziano”); nowadays they simply get tanned or enjoy a prosecco with friends. It is a kind of “roof on the roof”, and must comply with very strict rules as regards the materials used."
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 3, 2021 11:04:18 GMT -9
Has it really been this long? When Glenn posted his outstanding Venetian Churches, lightning posted a comment on the CW Facebook page I almost wish I had looked up the Church of San Barnaba, but then again, it is huge
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 5, 2021 5:42:21 GMT -9
San Barnaba is huge compared to the churches I want to do. San Giacomo di Rialto has a single row of pews that would seat six if they don't mind crowding in. San Giovanni Battista Decollato has/had a center aisle with pews for four/probably three on either side of the aisle. Anything larger than that would require skills that I am still building up to. On this church, the lower brick is red-brown. Much of the upper brick is almost white. And it has been this way a long time. The 1907 photo shows this way. I know that in the 1700s they changed the facade, which was also changed when under Napoleon it was turned into a warehouse. When restoration work was done last century, they returned it to the 'old look', but I don't know if this was the pre-1700s, or the late 1700s look, or the 1800s look. But since anyone who would recognize the building, would know the current facade, I will do it. I will be ignoring some of the odd brickwork where windows and doors have been moved, but will keep the stucco where it still currently is. I have been working on a brick texture sheet which will look closer to the red brick, and I will then adjust it to create the 'white' portion. That way my brickwork will be more uniform. On the north wall which is always shaded, the brick has a lot more brown, but I don't think I will do that. I will stick with red and white
|
|
|
Post by monstersbtm on Jan 7, 2021 2:16:30 GMT -9
Very well, dear vermin king: another thread to bookmark 😊
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 8, 2021 10:53:12 GMT -9
I think I am going to go back and work on this from a more photorealistic method. The brick is generally in three hues on the front and south side, orange-red, pale orange-red and an almost white. I delineated which areas should be which, and used a brick texture I developed from the Chiesa Frari's walls. After developing the texture, I made the three hues and applied them in the appropriate areas. Not satisfactory at all. If going from a photorealistic approach isn't satisfactory, I may just do the whole thing in the orangy-red brick
|
|
|
Post by Vermin King on Jan 9, 2021 11:47:21 GMT -9
I think the thumbnail looks good, but the enlarged version, not so good.
I think that if the hues were closer together, it would look better. Make the pink closer to the 'white' and the red closer to the pink, and this could still work, maybe.
|
|