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Post by Vermin King on Feb 22, 2021 18:39:32 GMT -9
Back in FH 187, Shep did a gondola based off the Plast Craft Games gondola. To my knowledge, I think I am the only one to have built it. grendelsmother64's boats are genius. inkjetpaperscissors.blogspot.com/search/label/BoatsI don't know of anyone who has built one that wasn't happy with the build. For Gondola Wars, I want to take shep's gondola and instead of gluing to 3mm chipboard, use a construction method like grendelsmother64. I don't think there will be time to make them more gondola-shaped, but looking at the resin gondolas out there, this should be acceptable. I am going to lose the exterior planking (gondolas are smooth) and combine the end caps and wales to simplify the build. I also want to add the forcola and optional felze
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Post by monstersbtm on Feb 23, 2021 0:39:39 GMT -9
Shep's gondolas are actually my next project to populate my Venetian board.. I'll make a generic squero and build 4/5 gondolas or other boats. Question, vk: how was to build yours without using the 3mm chipboard?
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 23, 2021 4:39:01 GMT -9
The image is Shep's version. With chipboard. Today, I am going to work on my mod. The bottom and sides will be done like the Bragosso. Use his wales and ends as a piece that glues over the top. I will probably have to lengthen a bit to allow room for seats
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 23, 2021 5:43:25 GMT -9
After looking at this some more, I think there will be room for the seat. I should tell myself to be satisfied with the geometry. Any lengthening should be in the triangular end portions, giving a more tapered appearance. If I were doing a model for sitting on the shelf, I would want to have the front and back elevated from the water. I don't think I will do that this round, because this is a gaming proxy, not a scale model. I have to keep telling myself that, because I really want to make the bow and stern elevated. EDIT -- I may make the front end top peaked along the center-line. But base version first. EDIT #2 -- Had a webinar this AM, and worked on color on shep's version. I have not seen a Ferro de Prua that is gold, usually about the color of aluminum on the inside of a can. So, I made it a light grey, as well as the wales. Gondolas are black, not brown. Generally, trying to make a black model that is shiny, designers usually go with black with blue highlights or go with a dark blue or grey. For now the gondola is going to be dark blue. monstersbtm, if you want to have a go at the chipboard version in blue, here is where I am at. I haven't taken out the board lines on the outsides, yet. If I remember correctly, I made the numbered parts the outside on my build Also, here is an example of plans, if someone wants to build one from scratch. Oh, yeah, I also gave the Ferro de Prua six teeth on the front
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 23, 2021 8:08:50 GMT -9
Didn't get as much done at lunch as I had hoped, but should you wish to build with shep's chipboard method, I think this repaint would be quite satisfactory It now has smooth sides in a saturated dark blue. For the upper end parts I made the blue slightly brighter. For the inner parts it is desaturated dark blue, showing boards. The Ferro de Prua is now light grey with the proper number of teeth. As no geometry is changed, and I built shep's version, this should build well if you gently pre-shape the sides. When I built it, I used JohnM's method of blowing on the part with a moist mouth. The humidity helps to get the parts to curve and then retain their shapes. But by getting the sides roughly to the proper shape, I had no issues with the build, other than using a different construction method than I had ever used before
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Post by monstersbtm on Feb 23, 2021 9:50:35 GMT -9
Colors of gondolas may vary upon the period of time you look for them. Before 1609 they were very colorful and richly ornated: they represented the power and wealth of the noble families owning them. However, the senate thought that it was enough: they made a law to compel to paint all of the gondolas black (or cover them using black woolen fabric). Black was chosen because it was a color associated to the elegance (and because it was also the color of the pitch, used to seal the boats)
I'll try to build some of yours vk, they are very good
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 23, 2021 9:56:29 GMT -9
Tonight, I should be able to have the parts lined out for a build like grendelsmother64's boats and the Bragòsso. If I knew what I was doing with gradients, I would have the sides going from dark blue at the top to black at the bottom. Maybe I should learn that some day. EDIT -- Okay, far from expert, but I learned how to do a gradient. One of these days I might even get good at it
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 23, 2021 19:26:43 GMT -9
Not moving as quickly as I thought, but I think I haven't made any mistakes, yet.
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 24, 2021 5:38:38 GMT -9
When I got to that point last night, I realized I am going to have to do some parts re-arrangement. On shep's boat, there is a lot of text, so I didn't think that there would be an issue on space. Adding tabs to the outer parts will even take up more space, and I have yet to do the upper parts, the forcola (the oar 'lock') and the felze (cabin). Not to mention the passenger seat. I also wanted to add a bottom piece, to help maintain shape and give it a little extra weight. It would also be textured in case your gondola got flipped on its side. I don't think I started on this any too early.
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 24, 2021 9:12:48 GMT -9
Okay, then. All of Shep's parts have now been collected for the new version. I still need to add the tabs that go under the boat. Which brings up a situation that may be minor, but I am not sure how minor it is. Shep's gondola had inner and outer sides that were glued to chipboard and shaped. The inner and outer parts are essentially the same size. As my outer parts will wrap around the inner parts, they may need to be a tad larger. Only one way to know, and that is to do a test build. I'll do that tonight after work, so I will know what needs tweaked. Here's where I am at
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 24, 2021 19:38:17 GMT -9
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 25, 2021 5:22:30 GMT -9
Between building, taking photos, and taking notes on what needs changed, two hours is very quick. This will need to be on two pages to be cutter friendly (and maybe to fit A4, but rearrangement could probably fix that). Most of the changes are related to not using the chipboard. For instance, the wales do not come together at a point and the base also is not pointed. I am going to look for images, but usually there was a stern ornament, and if I can find one generic enough, I want to put it at the top of the stern board. I have a rather blah seat for the gondola that needs to be embellished and reduced, and I need to find a better image of the forcola. I haven't even looked at the cabin, yet.
Two pages should hold everything
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Post by monstersbtm on Feb 25, 2021 13:35:42 GMT -9
Gondola looks nice! I'm quite curious to see how long it takes to build one: since I plan to build at least 3 or 4 of those, having a rough idea about the time it takes would be great.
Fun fact about felze: I asked a gondolier why nowadays felze is no longer in use. I thought would be a good thing to have during cold winter days. He replied that the problem is tides. Water level 300 years ago was lower than today and tides were not so high. A felze equipped gondola, in today's conditions, will surely hit the bottom of bridges so felze had to be completely discarded. Kinda sad..
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 25, 2021 14:55:36 GMT -9
City is lower, too, and the way they developed the land, it funnels the tides directly at San Marcos, without all the little canals being able to absorb part of it. Lots of past mistakes are taking their toll. I do wish they would stop dredging out the shipping lanes, but the current economy requires them. Every time they take dirt out of the lagoon to deepen the lanes, they also undermine the original islands. Of course they keep letting people build expensive houses in hurricane-prone areas here, too. Some of those bridges were too low for a felze back then, too. I forget who did the painting of a gondola going under a low bridge with the gondolier bending over at the waist to have clearance. I am glad that I missed the awning era. Made illegal in 1965 because they were getting too tacky. An open gondola is more luxurious than one with an awning evidently EDIT -- Found it. EDIT #2 -- Though I guess this is a sandolo
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 25, 2021 19:06:25 GMT -9
Well, spent the night working on finishing up Palazzo Dario, but did make some progress on the gondola. Adjusted the parts that were off because we aren't using chipboard, and then added the tabs onto the outer sides. I also added the risso and reshaped the stern board. Hoped to get more done.
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 26, 2021 9:11:51 GMT -9
By the way, I don't know what this board is called at the bow, where the steps are. It may be called a 'maistre'. But I am trying to incorporate it on the final build, giving the top of the bow the typical tent shape. The enlarged bow top will glue onto the top edges of this piece. I may incorporate it onto the bow top, so that only one side will need to be glued to it. I worked on the seat, but I am not sure how tall the base of it needs to be. I also made a rug and the tops of the front steps (need to figure out how tall each step needs to be). And decided on the decorative band I want to use where the bow meets the passenger cabine. I had hoped to have this done over lunch, but no
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 26, 2021 12:46:32 GMT -9
Okay, I think I have all I am going to do on this. I want to take another look at it with fresh eyes before I print
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Post by monstersbtm on Feb 26, 2021 13:36:54 GMT -9
It's a lot of detailing 😱
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 26, 2021 14:36:58 GMT -9
Most folks won't add all that, but I can't be shown up by a mere resin model that still needs to be painted...
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 26, 2021 19:21:33 GMT -9
Well, real life. Got some of the parts cut out and then real life happened. Maybe Sunday night
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Post by Vermin King on Feb 28, 2021 17:27:09 GMT -9
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Post by monstersbtm on Feb 28, 2021 23:49:41 GMT -9
Acceptable? That's crazy good!
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 1, 2021 10:50:03 GMT -9
Credits on Templates done, so I think this can be ready to post
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 9, 2021 19:30:22 GMT -9
Thanks to Antohammer, my gondolas have gondoliers. I need to do bases and tweak things slightly, but I think they will work. I don't do figures much, so I took his gondolier from the Shep Hoard and turned him into a gondolier. I then took one of his other Venetians and merged the two to get the old-timey gondolier. He says I can share these once I get them worked out. Thanks
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Post by cowboyleland on Mar 9, 2021 20:00:25 GMT -9
This is one of the few situations where a plain black base will be the least obtrusive option.
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Post by factoria tabletop on Mar 9, 2021 21:05:04 GMT -9
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Post by Vermin King on Mar 10, 2021 4:33:28 GMT -9
I'll get your gondolier ready for the Hoard, sir
So many questions on your diorama. I see corrugated cardboard as a base for a lot. Coffee stir sticks. Styrofoam ( not sure what paints you use that don't make it dissolve ). On your cobblestone, are you cutting out cardstock squares and gluing them on, or are you carving them into another material?
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Post by squirmydad on Mar 12, 2021 11:18:26 GMT -9
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Post by factoria tabletop on Mar 14, 2021 14:42:48 GMT -9
Vermin King my venice diorama was made with junk basically hahaha cardboard and foam from supermarket packages ( i washed it before ) ... i used acrilyc ( cheapest ) paints and the water is one of my old blue t shirts.... nothing special but i was happy with it! i leave a link to a video showing how i made it but is on spanish, apologizes! www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ttppPstn9YAnd thanks, i was really amazed when i saw my gondolieri riding this beatiful gondola! cheers!
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Post by Vermin King on Aug 6, 2021 18:35:57 GMT -9
Well, I have felt like I needed to finish up a project before I forget how to use Gimp, so I worked on the Sandolo tonight. A 1700's workboat Sandolo, not the regatta/racing sandolos of today. Today they are sleek craft with elevated bows and sterns that you couldn't haul much in. Using the Gondola as a starting point, the Sandolo lacks the Ferro de Prua and the stern decorations, but starting mid-1700's they did start having an iron strip that leads to the point of the prow. I originally planned on having the ribs show on the inner sides, but I saw an old painting of some hunters in one that had planks on the sides as well as floor, so I decided to use planked inner hull. The opening in the upper decking is larger than on the gondola, but many have a board going across, which I included. If you wanted to omit it, that would be just as correct, as many did not have it. Oops, I forgot to add the two forcolas. I'll fix that tomorrow before I build it. Here's where I am at. I just hope the printer decides to be friendly tomorrow I posted an image of the more plain gondola up above, but I think I need to make it cleaner
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