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Post by squirmydad on Sept 20, 2009 8:43:55 GMT -9
I am beginning to test out a workflow for creating my own GSD files for the craftrobo. And yet again, the software is fighting everything I know about how to use a graphics program.
I can use some hints for easily getting accurate cutting paths out the the RoboMaster software. None of my obvious solutions seem to be working. I can't seem to import a background PDF, and them add in the DFX cut paths.
I'm wandering if I just need to create the lines by hand in RoboMaster, or import and trace a black and white outline bitmap in RoboMaster.
I want some easy way of placing, importing, creating, accurate cut lines in a couple steps. JIM
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 21, 2009 10:41:42 GMT -9
For my maiden voyage, I've been working on WWG's Coins of the Realm set, and so far, it seems that this is the trick (pasted from the WWG forums with link) loydb: Quick tip for the photoshop users -- if you have the 'Layers' panel open, holding down 'control' and clicking on the little picture of the layer in the panel gives you a selection of everything on that layer. My workflow is just getting rid of the whitespace around everthing, changing to a new (empty) layer, control-click on the layer with the bitmaps in it, then do menu Edit -> Fill with the foreground color set to black. Then I make the new (black) layer active, control-click on the eyeball in the layers panel (which hides all other layers but the clicked one), and do a Save As a BMP for use in autotracing. www.worldworksgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7504
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Post by djlittle on Sept 27, 2009 6:32:33 GMT -9
Speaking of .gsd files, Is anyone planning on doing the alien stalkers and Guncrawl figures anytime soon? The stalkers are a PAIN in the wrist!
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 27, 2009 9:19:01 GMT -9
I've got two projects I'm close to finishing and then I'd be happy to add them to this weeks to-do list. Unless somebody else is already on it.
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Post by Sirrob01 on Sept 28, 2009 0:10:58 GMT -9
Not me, I may have gsd cutting files for some of the terra force sets soon, but I need to finish up the dunebuggy first
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Post by djlittle on Sept 28, 2009 14:33:08 GMT -9
Thanks guys! My wrists thank you also!
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 28, 2009 15:27:34 GMT -9
I have been converting like crazy. I've done a drop pod, killa kan, and rhino so far for 40K. The drop pod took me about 16 hours the past 3 days to get the files right; it was mostly resizing issues due to the fact that the damn plans were hand drawn on some ungodly 17 by 28 inch paper or something crazy. I spent the first part of last week teaching myself adobe, and I can say now, that there's damn near nothing I can't do with photoshop now. lol
Monk, if you need files created, at the rate I'm able to crank out pre-sized PDF's now, I could probably do everything on your site in about 2 days comfortably. I've printed and cut so much paper, that I've went through a 150 page stack of the Georgia Pacific el cheapo paper, and am 1/2 of the way through a 250 page ream of the expensive cougar opaque cardstock (which is freaking AMAZING paper, although it's about 10 cents a sheet).
Lemme know if you need anything done man; your figures are the reason I bought this cutter and took 2 weeks of vacation time to play with it. lol
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 28, 2009 18:36:04 GMT -9
If you can do the GSD files easily, and make printable PDF's with the reg marks, I'll happily take whatever you offer. In exchange I can give you free any set you don't already own ,and add you to my free forever friend list, and you will get all future releases free. JIM
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 29, 2009 3:39:10 GMT -9
Making the GSD files is no problem. I also discovered that craft robo can use .jpg images instead of the .bmp's everyone has been using, so the gsd file itself becomes way smaller. Given the number of robo files I have done so far, discovring that was a biggie. I turned almost half a gig of GSD files into 100K by spending last night re-doing everything I had done. Would make a difference to Mel Ebbles as he hosts his own files for download and bandwidth probably costs him an arm and a leg.
I haven't tried making PDF's yet; that's the only part of the equation I haven't figured out. I just print from the craft-robo personally. I have an idea that I should just be able to print to file from the craft-robo software. Import that registration marked page into an adobe doc and boom; should be done. I'll get started on the pdf thing today and will letcha know.
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 29, 2009 4:17:30 GMT -9
Yeah, making PDF's is cake. Takes literally about 2 seconds it seems. I don't use em with the files I've made, but I can see the sense in it, especially if people want to re-size or rescale things to their liking. I can do everything you need man. If you want to e-mail me a file to convert so you can check it out and make sure it's to your liking, mail it to lordmanimal @ gmail.com .
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Post by djlittle on Sept 29, 2009 13:18:06 GMT -9
YAY!
All hail the GSD KING! ;D
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Post by squirmydad on Sept 29, 2009 14:35:00 GMT -9
The separate PDF is not necessary, if they are not needed. If you can just print the set right from Craft master, then that's even easier. I do prefer to use the PDF for the actual print, is only to stay consistent with what's already done.
I'm glad to know that high res JPEGs work just as well. It's easy enough to copy t5he images in my figure PDF's and save them as JPEGs.
I know I could probably find and easy way of doing these myself, but I could really use the help. JIM
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 29, 2009 16:56:17 GMT -9
Cool like winter m'man! I only use the image files in Robo Master when I'm doing my tracings and then delete them from the gsd file before my final save. For someone like Mel, he's importing the dxf data which he has pre-set to his cut and score specifications. Then makes a pdf from from the cutting file. I use bmp's for my tracing of figures as I wasn't sure if the jpegs would be as 'clean'. How's it look on your end?
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 29, 2009 17:33:55 GMT -9
the jpgs are fine, even at medium conversion level. I converted the Halloween prop set tonight; works like a charm. Gotta find a filehost service so I can get the files to Monk and let you see for yourself squirmy.
Also squirmy, when you delete the image data from the GSD, I presume you're printing from outside of the robocutter? I.E. making a pdf and printing from it, then using the GSD file to send to robocutter? For me, doing it all from one GSD file is easier; I can even make PDF's from the robocutter software, so photo-shop plus craft robo software ='s win!
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 29, 2009 19:15:17 GMT -9
the jpgs are fine, even at medium conversion level. I converted the Halloween prop set tonight; works like a charm. Gotta find a filehost service so I can get the files to Monk and let you see for yourself squirmy. Also squirmy, when you delete the image data from the GSD, I presume you're printing from outside of the robocutter? I.E. making a pdf and printing from it, then using the GSD file to send to robocutter? For me, doing it all from one GSD file is easier; I can even make PDF's from the robocutter software, so photo-shop plus craft robo software ='s win! I know, there's just this technician part of my brain that likes the separation of duties between programs. Why do you need a file-hosting service? You can send some pretty big files through yahoo mail?
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 30, 2009 5:43:51 GMT -9
Eacy GSD file, even using compressed jpgs are about 25 megs apiece. How large are yours squirmy?
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 30, 2009 6:13:32 GMT -9
Eacy GSD file, even using compressed jpgs are about 25 megs apiece. How large are yours squirmy? 25MB? Much smaller, the whole zipped package for Slick's NCC Troopers with GSD files is only 8.2MB. The GSD file itself is only 568 KB. That's why I toss the image file.
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 30, 2009 8:32:38 GMT -9
Well what on earth is making mine so large? Here's my basic workflow.
Open up the PDF of the file I'm converting into photoshop CS3.
Copy the entire page and paste it into a new file that's U.S. Letter sized paper.
Move the elements around, make your generic corrections etc, until it fits within the boundaries of 1 inch at the top and .5 inches on the sides. (I drag over the grid lines)
I save the first image as whatever.jpg highlight the blank spaces, do an inverse select, edit->fill the area with black for the silhouette, and save that second image as whatever-silhouette.jpg. Each jpg is around 400K at this point.
I open up a new GSD file, insert whatever.jpb into the image, then click the outline button up top, and select my silhouette from that menu, paste then exit. Print up a copy to test, run it through the cutter, assemble, then save that GSD file as whatever.gsd.
Each of mine are nearly exactly 25megs; how does this compare to your workflow squirmy?
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 30, 2009 10:25:18 GMT -9
I just made some BMP's again, and did a side by side test using JPG's and BMP's to make the same GSD file, and it seems as though my software is forcing the size of 24.5MB onto all of my GSD files, regardless of what I use. I scaled one set of JPGS down to only 75K each, for the image and the silhouette, and made a GSD out of those, and the filesize was STILL 24.5MB. I've searched for someone having a similar problem via google, but haven't turned up anything yet... could it be track enhancing being off?
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Post by jwalker433 on Sept 30, 2009 11:28:32 GMT -9
If you have a pdf creator program then you can create pdf files by printing in craft robo and selecting the pdf output as the printer. The pdf creater program is acting as a virtual printer except that the output is being stored in a pdf file.
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 30, 2009 12:16:06 GMT -9
Aye, that's how I'm making mine now, but I was ignorant of those programs until 2 days ago. lol
I'm using cute pdfwriter, especially nice since it's free. ;-D
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 30, 2009 16:03:08 GMT -9
I also use cutepdf to make my pdf's out of RoboMaster. Here's a possibility; After you run auto-trace on the silhouette image are you ungrouping the cutting lines from the silhouette image? After auto-trace does it's thing RoboMaster combines the cutting data with the image that was traced... As to the funky file size- are you working in 300dpi? Because my 300dpi bmp files were also clocking in at 25mb each. For figure tracing work I was making three things in Photoshop; 1 - 300dpi pdf of the figures with registration marks 2 - 200dpi bmp file of the figures with registration marks 3 - 200dpi bmp silhouette file to run the auto-trace feature on. Part of my process; Import the silhouette bmp, position, auto-trace, ungroup, de-select all, select silhouette image - delete. Save. Import bmp of figures, position, send to back, look at cutting lines to ascertain whether they are positioned correctly just inside the outlines of the figures, draw in center score lines for the foldovers, delete bmp. Save cutting data only.
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Post by lordmanimal on Sept 30, 2009 16:19:49 GMT -9
how do you ungroup the tracing from the image? here, I'm trying your workflow, if you could help me iron out the kinks:
I.E. I open up a new gsd file. I click the "Get Outline" button before anything else is added, select my silhouette file, click get outline, then paste and exit. This lets me drag around the cut outline, which I place in the center.
Then I insert the actual file, but the white background is overlaying the cut file, so I can't see how to align it. I also don't see a way to send any portion to the back?
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Post by old squirmydad on Sept 30, 2009 20:53:35 GMT -9
Mel had a tutorial up at one point about figure creation for the CraftRobo/RoboMaster, but took it down as he got tired of answering questions about converting other people's models to hsd files wanted to concentrate on supporting the files that he made. ;D Anyways, it works like this; Make a standard master-layout file in RM with reg-marks and save it. Then make a pdf of it. Open the pdf (with reg-marks) in Photoshop. Import a pdf image file of angels, or Roman Galleys, or chickens. Arrange it on the page paying attention to keep the image inside the boundaries of the reg-marks and away from the corner reg-marks. -Export a new pdf of the image file with reg-marks. ** -Export a matching bmp/tiff/jpg. -Export a matching silhouette bmp/tiff/jpg with no reg-marks. Print the new pdf and mount on carrier sheet. Open your master-layout RM file, insert the silhouette file, right-click on the image to get the menu that has position settings, select 0,0 as the new image position (the origin in RM is in the lower left of the workspace), get outline-paste then exit. Right-click, select ungroup. De-select everything (click outside the drawing area), you now should have a silhouette image with a bunch of red lines on it for the cutting paths. Delete the silhouette image, now you just have cutting lines. Insert the bmp with the regular image on it, right-click, select position, select 0,0 again. Right click, select send to back. Zoom in and check the cutting paths. Draw in the fold lines. Select and delete the image bmp. Now you should just have cutting and scoring lines. The file size should be much smaller too. **The pdf's that I make in Photoshop use jpg encoding, not zip. That seems contrary to quality, but try it. You should end up with smaller pdf's with no loss of quality. One final note/question; Are you making your photoshop silhouettes based off of the front outlines of the figures?
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Post by lordmanimal on Oct 1, 2009 2:46:01 GMT -9
That's a fantastic summary there squirmy; much obliged!
I'm not actually making the silhouette based upon the front; would you be so kind as to explain your methodology for doing that? I have noticed that my backs are a hair larger than your elves were; this probably explains it.
On another note, I've also figured out finally how to get the filesize below 5 megs another way; although I'm going to begin utilizing your method today and see how that goes.
Firstly, my biggest mistake was making a new document that was the full 8.5 x 11 inch standard U.S. paper size, at 300 dpi. That makes the filesize nearly 25megs no matter what you do. Only copy the portion you need, and then create a new doc from the clipboard, adjusting the dpi down until the filesize is under 5 meg. I.E. if I'm making the angels set, I copy the angels very close to the edges of the actual figures to get as small a selection as necessary, create a new .jpg from the clipboard, and adjust dpi slider down as necessary. This normally results in around 200dpi without any visable quality loss from what I can tell on my xerox laserjet (a 1600$ printer).
Clear away all the lines, break out the magic wand, do the selection of the bits you want to remove, then select->inverse select, edit fill with solid black. Save that image as a .gif image; that's right, a .gif with only 3 colors; makes a file of around 15k for your silhouette. Apparently robomaster can recognize .gif files, but only in the "get outline" window. Copy that image in, paste the outline, make your dashed line and extra cut lines as necessary, save as .gsd and you wind up with a filesize that's only 15k larger than whatever you set that initial 200dpi copy at.
I've been playing with Mel's Farm set, and the new Angels set that was just released, and I can't see any quality difference in print between 200 dpi and 300dpi, although this may not be true on every printer setup or figure. Can anyone confirm if 200dpi is sufficient?
Oh also, I finally downloaded your ironclads last night squirmy.
I JUST dropped the money on the shroud mage and dwarf armies from uncharted seas last week... now I'm wishing I hadn't. lol Excellent, excellent stuff. You need to make me some gryphon lords nao.... lol
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Post by old squirmydad on Oct 1, 2009 8:42:40 GMT -9
Oh...the Ironclads...I made those when I was on medication after recovering from surgery.... I really should amend the designers notes in the instructions... I'll see about detailing some of the silhouette process that I use so that fronts and backs match in size.
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Post by lordmanimal on Oct 1, 2009 12:11:31 GMT -9
Your method does, in fact make far smaller GSD files than my own, although it takes longer. For my own personal use, I think I'll stick to my method. I have but to make 2 images, import em into robo, as I was detailing earlier, then export; it's quick and easy, but 25 megs a pop. le sigh
Well Monk, I'll give you a hand where I'm able, but this route seems to take me about 15 to 20 min per sheet, which blows my initial estimate out of the water. lol Squirmydad's method is spot on, if you want to keep the files at their minimum size, which reaches a larger audience and saves everyone bandwidth. I was thinking that people with robocutters would just want the GSD file, that they could print from, and output to robo from, but getting that filesize down without sacking quality is tough. Some files, depending on the way the artist rendered them are downright impossible using my method, like some of mel's older stuff. Some of that was designed at 17 inches across! Scaling it down to 200 dpi is unacceptable for those files. Seems like I can do almost all of yours though as you designed at 300dpi, on normal sized paper, but the time spent converting is comparable to squirmy's method anyway, so I might as well go that route.
Last thing I need from ole squirmy is how to make the silhouette using only the front half; I've wasted enough time trying to figure out my own way of doing this stuff, so I'm gonna wait on the pro here to respond.
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Post by old squirmydad on Oct 1, 2009 14:01:21 GMT -9
Yes, 15-20 minutes per page to process them is about right. Sorry, don't have time to write this out at the moment, hopefully these screenshots will suffice; s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk180/Squirmydad/Silhouette/Select the fronts of the figures; Contract the selection to make sure that the cutlines are inside the figure outline; This step isn't entirely necessary, but it definitely assures you that the cut-lines are placed correctly. Duplicate layer, flip it over, nudge it down, merge, do it again for the next row of figures, save as bmp with appropriate name.
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Post by lordmanimal on Oct 2, 2009 4:52:59 GMT -9
You're awesome man. Now I'm getting to work! ;-D
The only place I differ is on the GSD file itself. I prefer to have the larger filesize, so the user can just open up one file, print and cut from it. No need to open up a PDF, print it out, then open up a gsd, and cut. I did learn your method though, and I'm actually using it on my drop-pods now. I just print up some "blank" sheets with regmarks, and then have the cutter cut em out; saves on ink big time. lol I'll put up the complete files later, if anyone is interested. I didn't design it though, I just modified someone elses hand drawn design.
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