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Post by wyvern on May 22, 2014 6:59:23 GMT -9
Anyone who begins an argument with profanity has already lost it.
Theft is theft, no matter how you dress it up.
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Post by mproteau (Paper Realms) on May 22, 2014 7:02:20 GMT -9
lucce - Work and life have been exceptional to me so far. I wish you the same. I read your latest post, and you've left me more confused than before. You made some claims originally about how dreadful the PDF products were that you had paid for, but then went on to explain how you share them with others and use them in gaming. It seemed contradictory. But your recent post doesn't address that at all. It goes off in a totally different direction. In fact, I'm not sure I could really find a point in your latest post, other than you seem really frustrated. It's just hard for me to put my finger on what exactly is bothering you. Are you frustrated because some people who spend their time and energy making things want to try to sell them for money? Is that what is "destroying the very last FRAGMENTS" of the community? How is it destroying things? I'm trying to focus on something to try and make some progress - to see where the divide really is and whether there's a way to bridge it. My best assessment of what's getting you so angry is that the plastic/metal minis market is expensive, and the paper mini market seems like an answer to that, but if people have to pay for paper minis, then they're right back where they started.
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Post by dungeonmistress on May 22, 2014 7:08:32 GMT -9
I believe we've wasted enough time on this sad, frustrated and morally confused man. Let him wander about in his own miasma. We have better things to spend our time and effort on, don't we?
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Post by okumarts on May 22, 2014 7:25:40 GMT -9
Wow..
I'm sorry I missed this.
I don't hate pirates, I understand sometimes it's a financial situation, sometimes it's a lack of respect or understanding of the process that creates a product that is eventually consumed. Here, I think it is a lack of understanding about Intellectual Property rights and how game products are created and sold.
I don't make my living on my paper minis, the market is far too small and piracy stops me from really getting paid for all the products I have out in the wild.
That said, I find it upsetting that society has a lack of respect for creative industries. Creative products become culture and in some cases culture becomes "branded" by creative products such as Disney and Warner Brothers or Lego. This makes our culture, the things that surround us and we live in, appear to be a seamless part of our lives, but the truth is that this reality has been carefully crafted by artists and writers through ads, theme parks, malls, etc. We don't see a beginning or an end to 'creative' in our lives because our culture has been so seamlessly marketed to over the past hundred years or so. When we encounter something like gaming, that brings happiness and excitement to people we latch on to it because it is rewarding and fun. Some of us move on and create games for other people to consume. Fewer still charge others for that because we feel the products have a 'value'. This is often met with resistance because we have become trained as consumers of cultural products that they will always be "around" and available to us for free because they are "our" culture and part of our identity. Favourite songs on the radio and TV shows floated on the airwaves, they were "just signals floating around" and we consumed them voraciously. We approach internet content the same way, seeing our monthly internet bills as our "tickets" to acquire movies and shows and documents and songs the same way we consumed television or radio in the past. Thing is, it doesn't work that way. We who are creating material for consumption and using the internet to sell it are having a hard time competing with this culture of entitlement, mostly because it is how we have been consuming media for almost 100 years.
It is sad that a culture pays an athlete millions of dollars a year while a writer or an artist has a hard time paying the bills. It's a lack of understanding about where creative work comes from and how we consume it. Most of our creative culture that we consumed has been run through a filter of large media corporations who market and gate keep what she consume. These corporations are giant entities that are at war with other corporations for our devotion and dollars. I don't have the resources of a Disney Corporation or a Time/Warner at my fingertips. I am a guy with a laptop using programs I purchased with my own money for my business. I pay taxes and keep receipts and try to make it as professional as possible. I'm not a really great businessman. I have a degree in Fine Arts and a minor in History. I have enough English courses at university to allow me to teach it. I teach full time and love my job. I am also a very creative person and love to play games. I have always used my artistic and literary background to add to my gaming experiences and that's what I want to do with my games and paper minis. They are dorky little distractions that I hope someone else will also love and use as inspiration to have fun with their friends. I hope they have as much fun as I do. I would love to make more money from my work, but teaching takes many extra hours in the day that I am not paid for and having relationships with my kids and important people in my life takes away most of the rest of the time. When I can work it's a special time, often crammed in after a four hour marking session or doing the dishes or some other household chore. I wouldn't do it if I didn't love it and I wish other people would appreciate it enough to spend less money than they would buying a fancy coffee or a treat at the bakery to have it and use it and enjoy it as well.
That's my elderly rant. I've been making my own games and comics for over 40 years and I am grateful to have the chance to share them with like-minded people. I'd like to make it worth my while, that's all.
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Post by dungeonmistress on May 22, 2014 7:45:11 GMT -9
And we love you for it, okumarts. One man's 'dorky' is another man's beauty. I, for one, love and appreciate your work. Especially your elves!
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Post by Vermin King on May 22, 2014 8:24:48 GMT -9
Frankly, I hadn't planned on making any more posts, but since he says he isn't coming back, why not.
He strikes me as the kid with his hand in the cookie jar who is trying to justify it to his mom.
If he would have apologized, the true meaning of his apology would have been 'I am so sorry that I got caught'.
If he were truly trying to introduce your products to the masses, he could have contacted someone here and I am sure something could be worked out. However, he decided to build goodwill with his customers by giving out items that were not his to give.
Oh, well, the man convinced against his will is of his own opinion still. BTW, I stole that line from Anne McCaffrey (in the interest of full disclosure)
I hope he wouldn't have the unmitigated gall to call the cops on anyone who shoplifts items from his store
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Post by oldschooldm on May 22, 2014 11:33:06 GMT -9
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Post by wisdomknight on May 22, 2014 12:18:22 GMT -9
lets not turn this political man.
That article is liberal garbage.
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Post by okumarts on May 22, 2014 13:10:14 GMT -9
It's a really good article actually.
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Post by oldschooldm on May 22, 2014 14:09:01 GMT -9
lets not turn this political man.
That article is liberal garbage.
No politics intended. I was talking about the study (and there have been others) that indicate that it is hard to get people who've been behaving/believing a certain way to change - via seemingly compelling evidence/argumentation. That includes all of us, even me. :-) Honestly, I find the science pretty depressing...
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Post by Parduz on May 22, 2014 15:23:20 GMT -9
Honestly, I find the science pretty depressing... Eheh.... it happens to me as well when i realize, by reading articles like the one you linked, or other related to our brain behaviours, that we're still the same animals we were when we lived in the caves. Our brain is still built for surviving in the wild, and his own intelligence can be used against itself by triggering ancient automatic mechanics Now, let me go touch that black monolyth
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Post by squirmydad on May 22, 2014 17:45:59 GMT -9
Well...actually not the first time I've been called riff-raff....good to know that some people appreciate our work. Too bad they don't appreciate it enough to pay for it. So what's the public consensus; lock this away and bury it? Edit the potty-mouthed comments? Let it stand as is? I'm inclined to let it stand.
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Post by Vermin King on May 22, 2014 17:59:09 GMT -9
Lock it down. I don't really think it needs to be buried.
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