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Post by cowboyleland on Sept 30, 2016 4:57:34 GMT -9
Warbeasts with less armour or orkish armour would be cool. It reminds me that rhino's don't have to be woolly . . .
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Post by wyvern on Sept 30, 2016 12:39:58 GMT -9
The Mk VI orc chief on warbeast looks good. Like the shield, especially, though I'd guess it's just for the impression as it seems lower resolution (?) than the rest of the drawing. One thing though. The saddle needs more than just the one thin strap to hold it in place, unless someone's playing a trick on the chief (wouldn't recommend that!). Not convinced by mammoths as orc mounts. It takes them too far from the combat action, I'd say, but again, maybe that's just me thinking too much "visceral combatants" for orcs. For the aerial mounts, giant vultures maybe? Or of course, as mentioned, giant bats. Shouldn't it really be wraiths on pterodactyl-style mounts though - or I am being too Tolkienian here
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Post by mesper on Sept 30, 2016 14:41:34 GMT -9
<...> Like the shield, especially, though I'd guess it's just for the impression as it seems lower resolution (?) than the rest of the drawing. Yep! Original version is full 300DPI (BTW this one is taken from DragonSlayers set - IMHO among my best sets so far:) Then much probably shields would be added as optional ACCESSORIES (of course A and B side, so can be freely attached/removed/replaced) <...> The saddle needs more than just the one thin strap to hold it in place, unless someone's playing a trick on the chief (wouldn't recommend that!). Yep (again:) It's me being hasty and lazy... and you have sharp eyes Sir! It will be improved before release For the aerial mounts, giant vultures maybe? Or of course, as mentioned, giant bats. Shouldn't it really be wraiths on pterodactyl-style mounts though - or I am being too Tolkienian here Vultures... hmm... not really, not for Orcs - IMHO rather bats (good idea!) or some sort of "prehistorical" creatures Thanks for tips and suggestions!
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Sept 30, 2016 18:45:51 GMT -9
Why not turn the basic fantasy tropes on their heads and have the Orcs riding giant eagles or hawks? Now, THAT would get people's attention!
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Post by nolabert on Sept 30, 2016 18:48:02 GMT -9
Why not turn the basic fantasy tropes on their heads and have the Orcs riding giant eagles or hawks? Now, THAT would get people's attention! Ok. I really like this idea! How about Giant Vultures? Seems more orcish.
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Post by cowboycentaur on Sept 30, 2016 20:34:04 GMT -9
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 1, 2016 6:04:39 GMT -9
Hmmm, I thought that people would be smaller in relation to a buffalo...
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 1, 2016 9:38:56 GMT -9
What the heck was that? If you google for "gobsmacked", you'll get a picture of me immediately after watching "Guy on a Buffalo" Parts 1-4...
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Post by cowboycentaur on Oct 1, 2016 11:36:46 GMT -9
What the heck was that? If you google for "gobsmacked", you'll get a picture of me immediately after watching "Guy on a Buffalo" Parts 1-4... Hehe, I love it. This video never ceases to crack me up
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 1, 2016 15:15:59 GMT -9
Hehe, I love it. This video never ceases to crack me up The best part is that there are FOUR parts to it. "What did you do last weekend, Jeff?" "I binge-watched the first season of Guy on a Buffalo."
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Post by mesper on Oct 1, 2016 19:50:36 GMT -9
OK, let's get back to Warchief (sorry for interrupting movie OT...) So here's Warchief first colouring attempt. Not sure but for me kinda all-too-greenish. But then Orcs are green, right? Then the lizard should be green as well... Hmm, so perhaps more blue skin-tone or even some darker, with more grey would be better? Second topic - colour of "skull" or carapace - ie that blue-ish thing on lizard's head. It's not metal armour but some sort of natural carapace, or frontal bone so probably should be gray or slightly beige - or perhaps even RED? BTW: perhaps some big stone-axe or even mace instead of sword would be better (or keep it for mod-version)? wyvern - now mount's belts are not only two but also wider/more solid. Then I've added, dunno what is right word - torso/chest/front belt?
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Post by cowboycentaur on Oct 2, 2016 7:12:37 GMT -9
I've always preferred a grey orc. They look imposing and all the more brutal.
The green ones always look cartoony and a little silly to me, like goblins with a pituitary gland problem
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 2, 2016 9:38:42 GMT -9
I've always preferred a grey orc. They look imposing and all the more brutal. The green ones always look cartoony and a little silly to me, like goblins with a pituitary gland problem I agree about green orcs, though I realize that after a decade of World of Warcraft, millions of people have been programmed to expect orcs to be green. On the other hand, when the ruddy, brown-red orcs started showing up in Warcraft, I really like those. They seemed more plausible to me. Gray works well, too--Peter Jackson has demonstrated that six times now. Now that I think about it, variant orc hide colors might be a more useful thing to put on layers than swapping out the color of their gear. People generally have consensus on plausible colors for weapons and armor, but obviously, there is some variation of opinion on orc skin color. (BTW, do NOT get me started on how silly D&D trolls have looked consistently since 1974. I was really sad when Blizzard picked up Gary Gygax's dopey vision of trolls for Warcraft, and I've had to pretend not to notice it for 20 years.)
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Post by wyvern on Oct 2, 2016 9:50:15 GMT -9
...Orcs are green, right? Not really; orc skin tones can be any shade you want. The pale silvery-green you've used here seems fine to me though. It maybe a bit too similar to the skin tones on your half-orcs, however. Then the lizard should be green as well... Again, not necessarily. Can't really imagine orcs choosing their mount's colouring because it matches nicely with their own skin tone, somehow... Second topic - colour of "skull" or carapace - ie that blue-ish thing on lizard's head. It's not metal armour but some sort of natural carapace, or frontal bone so probably should be gray or slightly beige - or perhaps even RED? If it's not metal armour, I think the eye protection especially needs adjusting, because that looks much too artificial to me. A natural carapace/bony structure should be solid, but transparent over the eyes, so the creature can still see. The whole probably needs a little more work, perhaps by adding some more, similar, plate structures elsewhere on the creature's body, to help it look a lot less like metal plate armouring. Colouring should probably be the same as the toenails/hooves or teeth (because it'll be made of similar material). However, the orcs might crudely paint it when going into battle. BTW: perhaps some big stone-axe or even mace instead of sword would be better (or keep it for mod-version)? Difficult to judge without some samples. ...now mount's belts are not only two but also wider/more solid. Then I've added, dunno what is right word - torso/chest/front belt? Belts looking more believable now! Not sure how they're attached to the saddle though, as both seem to pass under the saddle cloth? No, I've no idea what the chest strap might be called on a giant riding lizard either...
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 2, 2016 13:16:07 GMT -9
Colour of "skull" or carapace - ie that blue-ish thing on lizard's head. It's not metal armour but some sort of natural carapace, or frontal bone so probably should be gray or slightly beige - or perhaps even RED? Oh, wow, I totally read that as an iron or steel armor piece, not as a dino-like bony plate. Either answer--natural bony plate or metal armor--is equally valid, but if the color contrast between the headpiece and the rest of the lizard is too great, it will read as something the orcs put on the beast, and not something that grew there naturally. Check out this video on armored lizards in general: In particular, he talks about the "armadillo lizard" a couple of minutes into the video. Here's a vid just about that one: With these lizards, the bony armor is usually just a slightly different shade of the same general color of the lizard. Also, I notice that the bony armor on these animals is generally made up of an arrangement of huge, chunky, heavy "super scales", rather than a single plate. You've got that effect working on the nape of the lizard's neck, but not so much on the snout and forehead. Just something to consider--you're the artist, follow your instinct in the end.
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Post by mesper on Oct 2, 2016 14:59:59 GMT -9
Ad. skin colours Now Warchief is semi grey and blue, then mount itself... red-golden, kinda salamander-ish Well - in fact I'll probably add couple versions into the final set, so this problem gone (except much more time/work;) Lizard's eye changed Then after jeffgeorge post I'm considering either redraw of lizard's head so it will be more obvious metal armour OR more "natural", like on vids. Most probably it will ends with 2 versions (or better/smarter - naturel carapache which could be fully or just partially covered/overlayed by metal parts! - so just one layer on top of mount:) Oh and I'm still playing with some accessories, but somehow feel that version WITHOUT shield (vide opening post) looks kinda more powerful and commanding to me...
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 2, 2016 15:27:59 GMT -9
Ad. skin colours Now Warchief is semi grey and blue, then mount itself... red-golden, kinda salamander-ish Well - in fact I'll probably add couple versions into the final set, so this problem gone (except much more time/work;) Lizard's eye changed Then after jeffgeorge post I'm considering either redraw of lizard's head so it will be more obvious metal armour OR more "natural", like on vids. Most probably it will ends with 2 versions (or better/smarter - naturel carapache which could be fully or just partially covered/overlayed by metal parts! - so just one layer on top of mount:) Oh and I'm still playing with some accessories, but somehow feel that version WITHOUT shield (vide opening post) looks kinda more powerful and commanding to me... I like the slate gray orc chief alot. Seems more plausible than bright green. The head armor is still reading as metal to me, rather than natural. I think if you decide to envision it as armor, all you need to add are a couple of straps to hold it on. If you want it to look natural, I'm not sure it needs a major redraw; I think you can convey the idea by choosing colors from the same general palette as the rest of the lizard's body. Also, consider toning down the shadow the plating casts on the body underneath it; now that I look at picture closely, I notice that the wide "drop-shadow" under the armor plating really lifts and separates the plates from the lizard's body. On another note, tt's interesting that aside from the first face/skull plate of the lizard's armor, the rest of the rows of armor look a lot like the back of the armadillo lizard in the video. And apropos of nothing, I thought I'd mention that now that I've been looking at a lot of your artwork a lot more closely than I had before, your inking and coloring style reminds me a lot of the four-color adventure comics from the Prince Valiant/Flash Gordon era. I don't have any idea if that's deliberate, or if I'm projecting it from my own head, but whatever--I like it a lot.
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Post by mesper on Oct 2, 2016 19:00:46 GMT -9
OK, carapace is enlarged and extended - although after mounting Warchief I'm afraid that the new carapace is either too short or at least one segment too long (this rather) GrRrr! Well I can also just extend fur beneath the saddle, but I think that removing last segment or two would do the job better Hope also that new lizard colours are more "realistic" thus acceptable - skin is less yellow-ish, more sandy-brown and the carapace more like bone. Then it would be relatively easy to add versions with green and grey/blue-skin lizard, so there will be some choice.
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 2, 2016 19:39:25 GMT -9
OK, carapace is enlarged and extended - although after mounting Warchief I'm afraid that the new carapace is either too short or at least one segment too long (this rather) GrRrr! Well I can also just extend fur beneath the saddle, but I think that removing last segment or two would do the job better Hope also that new lizard colours are more "realistic" thus acceptable - skin is less yellow-ish, more sandy-brown and the carapace more like bone. Then it would be relatively easy to add versions with green and grey/blue-skin lizard, so there will be some choice.
I really like this lizard color the best of all the versions you've tried. The carapace color is now reading as bony rather than metallic, too. I think what's making the carapace look like an add-on piece now is the way it ends...the problem is not that it is too long or too short, but that it ends in an abrupt, square corner. My sense is that nature doesn't do square corners. Should the carapace taper narrower as it goes back toward the saddle, or even extend under the saddle and out along the tail? Either way, I think the squared-offishness of it is the only thing making it look like orc-made armor, instead of natural bony plates. BTW, I admire your patience and openness through this process. You were under no obligation to tolerate our (my) kibitzing, and you've taken it amazingly gracefully. You are a gentleman (I assume, though your handle is not really gender-defining) and a scholar.
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Post by mesper on Oct 2, 2016 21:35:14 GMT -9
OK - next attempt - trying to rid off most of neck carapace Actually after adding some more spots (neck skin) lizard without neck carapace looks not that bad! But here's another try - with big side... what are these? not ears but some sort of "collar" for threatening opponents or something like this. Tried with various colours, including vibrant red, but yellow-ish, pale brown and simply grey looks just ok, then with grey or green body-skin looks even better! Cloak added - we are dealing with Warchief, after all, so he should somehow distinct from the crowd, right? Saddle-belts - now fully visible - and regarding @ wyvern 's previous question - there are thin/slimline slots in caparison (ie fur beneath the saddle) made especially for these belts:) OK, I'm going to finalise this stage of this project - still there will be a lot of work (and fun:) with making various versions, optional accessories etc.
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Post by wyvern on Oct 3, 2016 3:33:05 GMT -9
Carapace remains problematic if it's meant to be part of the animal to me. Looking in detail, I think one aspect is it clearly isn't attached at the upper lip/jaw, eye socket and neck. If it were part of the animal's head, the lines should blend naturally, so overall, it still looks more convincingly like separate armour than bony plates grown from the lizard.
Don't like the cloak. In combat, it gives your opponent an instant advantage, as something tied round your neck they can grab hold of and stop you fighting - or even strangle you with. As a marker to show he's the boss, either distinctive tattoos, body paint or close-fitting clothing/armour or a helmet would work better, I think.
Can't help feeling too that if the chief opts not to have a shield, and doesn't need to hold the animal's reins, he should probably have a second weapon in his other hand.
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Post by whiteknight06604 on Oct 3, 2016 8:39:22 GMT -9
the way I look at it it's fantasy so it doesn't have to be grounded completely in practicality or reality.
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Post by mesper on Oct 3, 2016 14:45:59 GMT -9
Here's fearsome Orc Warchief known as "Rider of the Crimson Storm", with powerful magic artifact - dragon-skin shield at his back! OK, some new changes: As it was suggested, carapace is now extended and ends/hides beneath caparison IMHO looks much better now. wyvern - as you wish, now he's dual wield, perhaps there will be couple versions in the set, so users can decide which one suits better their gaming needs. Please note brand new lizard's tail - now much longer and with some deadly enhancements, so now mount is (as the Warchief) kinda "dual wield", so this combo might be really effective and threatening in any fight! jeffgeorge - thanks for kind words. Well, in fact regardless of real fun I'm achieving also some sort of "profit", as some suggestions are very useful, and helpful and some ideas might fruit in some other project - so win-win from my point of view:) BTW I'm a big fan and collector of comic books (mostly European but manga and even some American superheroes too; however I'm preferring "closed/finished" stories, not periodic issues, so rather visual novels from Dark Horse etc.), but I'll stop myself discussing about that hobby as I'm afraid it might cause massive Off-topic from my side:)
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Post by Vermin King on Oct 3, 2016 16:00:03 GMT -9
May be going down a wrong path here, but instead of thinking of the neck plates as being part of the carapace, why not think of it as back scales? About the same width back to the hips, and then narrow to a point about 1/3 of the way down the tale. Just a thought
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Post by jeffgeorge on Oct 3, 2016 16:03:05 GMT -9
May be going down a wrong path here, but instead of thinking of the neck plates as being part of the carapace, why not think of it as back scales? About the same width back to the hips, and then narrow to a point about 1/3 of the way down the tale. Just a thought What he said.
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Post by mesper on Oct 7, 2016 2:33:18 GMT -9
May be going down a wrong path here, but instead of thinking of the neck plates as being part of the carapace, why not think of it as back scales? About the same width back to the hips, and then narrow to a point about 1/3 of the way down the tale. Just a thought What he said. Hmm... but then there would be problem with saddle - ie. not too practical not mentioning comfort (however orcs may have hardened butts...) But seriously - that's a good idea, however it would take some additional drawing work and recolouring (which is almost done) - and as I remember from some other dino-mounts (like raptors) and dragons, it took a lot of time for me to do it more or less realistic. You know, when one row of scales (or even just a few of them) looks poorly, then whole job have to be done from scratch - or scales needs to be done as separate parts (on separate layers) and then positioned piece by piece... Anyway, basic figurine is almost ready so perhaps I'll leave it as it is, at least for now...
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Post by mesper on Oct 7, 2016 2:51:04 GMT -9
OK, Orc Warchief RPG Heroes #12 set released! It came out quite nicely IMHO - forum members helpful comments and suggestions greatly contributed to it, and I have a lot of fun working on this one - so thanks a lot! Most figurines are finished and presented both as grey (or rather as on previews, something between grey and light-blue) and green-ish (so kinda two orkish tribes:). Then lizards are also green, grey, blueish and even yellow-golden. And ohh... well, there are some capes, but just a few
Available at: RPGnow and WargameVault...
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Post by mesper on Oct 7, 2016 2:59:48 GMT -9
...almost forgot about this - so here's sets's INTRO page, with some "postcards" from project development and some CWF credits as well:
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Post by mesper on Oct 8, 2016 8:12:18 GMT -9
Mounted Orc Warchief set published still... someone in this thread mentioned that (apart from more or less exotic mounts like ox, bison/zubr, mammoth or lizards) orcs could use also mundane horses... Well, in fact why not? Perhaps we should leave horses for historical series (obviously) and for humans only within fantasy - however the idea sounds kinda tempting, so having in mind mine DUOCORNS set (kinda dark-side unicorns;) here's the first "combined" outcome preview. It is rather "dark-ish" figurine (perhaps some more standing-out, vivid parts like red harness should be replaced by dark grey or even black ones?), then due to some details (wait for B-side...) it's definitely more dark fantasy than figurines in released set. Actually to publish such figurine at OBS family safe filter should be switched off - so most probably I will release it as a freebie here, assuming that it wouldn't be against any rules
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Post by Punkrabbitt on Oct 8, 2016 19:34:59 GMT -9
Unfortunately, I think it *is* against the rules here :-(
But I am a big fan of stuff that requires safety filters off :-)
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